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Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« on: July 10, 2020, 08:01:29 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I really didn't want to give this a new thread, but couldn't find a logical place to put it.

DJT claims on Hannity to have taken a cognitive abilities test (in 2018) and apparently he really impressed the doctors!

"I actually took one when I, uh, very recently, when I was, uh, when I was — you know the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there ‘cause I aced it, I aced the test, and he should take the same exact test (Biden), a very standard test at Walter Reed Medical Center. I took it in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. They said, ‘That’s an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did.’"

The test he took apparently was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment.   This is a test for dementia.  It is effective as a screener for  dementia or the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's where they'd be looking for early signs of cognitive impairment.  A non-passing score on the MoCA leads to more precise testing.

Trump is very proud of "Acing" a test that is a simple screener for dementia.  The reality is that most people who take it do "Ace" it -- as 26/30 is considered the cut-off for concern.   

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-English.pdf

Look at it and you'll see. It is remarkably easy for a reason. If you don't score extremely well, it is an indicator that there is something wrong with your cognitive ability. 

That Trump would brag about this and, OF COURSE, lie about it ("They said, that's an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did"), is really just frightening.  Actually, whenever a person without impairment takes this screener, they do extremely well. If Trump had missed a single point on this, it would have been a concern.

I'm not saying Biden should take it -- but truth be told if he didn't score perfectly on it, it would actually be concerning.  I suppose it's not really a risk for Biden to take it -- it's one of many attempts Trump will make in the next 4 months to goad Biden.



Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2020, 08:10:07 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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If he asks Biden to take this Biden should ask him to reveal his taxes.

As fair a trade as even Danny Ainge could engineer.

Biden could EVEN throw in a sweetener...having his son investigated by the Justice department for the UMPTEENTH time.
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Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2020, 08:46:58 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I really didn't want to give this a new thread, but couldn't find a logical place to put it.

DJT claims on Hannity to have taken a cognitive abilities test (in 2018) and apparently he really impressed the doctors!

"I actually took one when I, uh, very recently, when I was, uh, when I was — you know the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there ‘cause I aced it, I aced the test, and he should take the same exact test (Biden), a very standard test at Walter Reed Medical Center. I took it in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. They said, ‘That’s an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did.’"

The test he took apparently was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment.   This is a test for dementia.  It is effective as a screener for  dementia or the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's where they'd be looking for early signs of cognitive impairment.  A non-passing score on the MoCA leads to more precise testing.

Trump is very proud of "Acing" a test that is a simple screener for dementia.  The reality is that most people who take it do "Ace" it -- as 26/30 is considered the cut-off for concern.   

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-English.pdf

Look at it and you'll see. It is remarkably easy for a reason. If you don't score extremely well, it is an indicator that there is something wrong with your cognitive ability. 

That Trump would brag about this and, OF COURSE, lie about it ("They said, that's an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did"), is really just frightening.  Actually, whenever a person without impairment takes this screener, they do extremely well. If Trump had missed a single point on this, it would have been a concern.

I'm not saying Biden should take it -- but truth be told if he didn't score perfectly on it, it would actually be concerning.  I suppose it's not really a risk for Biden to take it -- it's one of many attempts Trump will make in the next 4 months to goad Biden.

Given that the only proof Trump took it seems to be his word (which is not worth much), why would Biden even have to actually take it?

Honestly, I'm more impressed that people questioning Trump's cognitive abilities made him question himself enough to go and get tested. If he were trying to prove it to anyone but himself, why would he wait 2 years to say anything about it?
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Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2020, 08:48:34 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I really didn't want to give this a new thread, but couldn't find a logical place to put it.

DJT claims on Hannity to have taken a cognitive abilities test (in 2018) and apparently he really impressed the doctors!

"I actually took one when I, uh, very recently, when I was, uh, when I was — you know the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there ‘cause I aced it, I aced the test, and he should take the same exact test (Biden), a very standard test at Walter Reed Medical Center. I took it in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. They said, ‘That’s an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did.’"

The test he took apparently was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment.   This is a test for dementia.  It is effective as a screener for  dementia or the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's where they'd be looking for early signs of cognitive impairment.  A non-passing score on the MoCA leads to more precise testing.

Trump is very proud of "Acing" a test that is a simple screener for dementia.  The reality is that most people who take it do "Ace" it -- as 26/30 is considered the cut-off for concern.   

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-English.pdf

Look at it and you'll see. It is remarkably easy for a reason. If you don't score extremely well, it is an indicator that there is something wrong with your cognitive ability. 

That Trump would brag about this and, OF COURSE, lie about it ("They said, that's an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did"), is really just frightening.  Actually, whenever a person without impairment takes this screener, they do extremely well. If Trump had missed a single point on this, it would have been a concern.

I'm not saying Biden should take it -- but truth be told if he didn't score perfectly on it, it would actually be concerning.  I suppose it's not really a risk for Biden to take it -- it's one of many attempts Trump will make in the next 4 months to goad Biden.

Given that the only proof Trump took it seems to be his word (which is not worth much), why would Biden even have to actually take it?

Honestly, I'm more impressed that people questioning Trump's cognitive abilities made him question himself enough to go and get tested. If he were trying to prove it to anyone but himself, why would he wait 2 years to say anything about it?

Exactly. I'm really surprised that 1) they actually convinced him to take it, and 2) he wants to publicly talk about it

Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2020, 08:56:49 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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When we’re talking about octogenarians, a test regarding cognitive decline is a good thing.  If Biden’s people haven’t at least privately gotten him tested they’re being very irresponsible.

The first few responses are a little sad.  Why decline the test, particularly if it’s a slam dunk for a reasonably functioning person? 
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Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2020, 09:02:49 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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When we’re talking about octogenarians, a test regarding cognitive decline is a good thing.  If Biden’s people haven’t at least privately gotten him tested they’re being very irresponsible.

The first few responses are a little sad.  Why decline the test, particularly if it’s a slam dunk for a reasonably functioning person?

Its a good thing, yes. But its not a test that is conduced on people unless their doctor suspects possible dementia, even if they are in their 70's.

I'm still very surprised they convinced Trump to take it, and that he feels the need to publicly talk about it.

Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2020, 09:10:19 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I really didn't want to give this a new thread, but couldn't find a logical place to put it.

DJT claims on Hannity to have taken a cognitive abilities test (in 2018) and apparently he really impressed the doctors!

"I actually took one when I, uh, very recently, when I was, uh, when I was — you know the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there ‘cause I aced it, I aced the test, and he should take the same exact test (Biden), a very standard test at Walter Reed Medical Center. I took it in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. They said, ‘That’s an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did.’"

The test he took apparently was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment.   This is a test for dementia.  It is effective as a screener for  dementia or the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's where they'd be looking for early signs of cognitive impairment.  A non-passing score on the MoCA leads to more precise testing.

Trump is very proud of "Acing" a test that is a simple screener for dementia.  The reality is that most people who take it do "Ace" it -- as 26/30 is considered the cut-off for concern.   

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-English.pdf

Look at it and you'll see. It is remarkably easy for a reason. If you don't score extremely well, it is an indicator that there is something wrong with your cognitive ability. 

That Trump would brag about this and, OF COURSE, lie about it ("They said, that's an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did"), is really just frightening.  Actually, whenever a person without impairment takes this screener, they do extremely well. If Trump had missed a single point on this, it would have been a concern.

I'm not saying Biden should take it -- but truth be told if he didn't score perfectly on it, it would actually be concerning.  I suppose it's not really a risk for Biden to take it -- it's one of many attempts Trump will make in the next 4 months to goad Biden.

Given that the only proof Trump took it seems to be his word (which is not worth much), why would Biden even have to actually take it?

Honestly, I'm more impressed that people questioning Trump's cognitive abilities made him question himself enough to go and get tested. If he were trying to prove it to anyone but himself, why would he wait 2 years to say anything about it?

Exactly. I'm really surprised that 1) they actually convinced him to take it, and 2) he wants to publicly talk about it

First off - they asked him to take a remarkably simple "test".  Secondly, it took me about 5 minutes to find the actual test on the internet.   Yes, if you cheat on your SATs you might not feel morally opposed to cheating on the MoCA screener.   

Biden shouldn't take it.  It is not an intelligence test. On the off-chance that he misses one point (which, btw, would worry me a little) -- Trump could say he outscored Biden (I'm assuming Trump got a 30/30 which people without cognitive impairment should do).  Trump's folks could then go to town on the fact that Biden missed a point on an incredibly basic cognitive screening instrument.


Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2020, 09:25:13 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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When we’re talking about octogenarians, a test regarding cognitive decline is a good thing.  If Biden’s people haven’t at least privately gotten him tested they’re being very irresponsible.

The first few responses are a little sad.  Why decline the test, particularly if it’s a slam dunk for a reasonably functioning person?

Is it true that we should be concerned that any person who is 77 has a cognitive impairment?  I don't think so.

Honestly, if there was any evidence of such with Biden, I would hope that indeed someone would have been concerned enough to address it -- long before now.   Note that even though Biden was not great in the debates, he actually competed and did OK.  No one with a cognitive impairment would be able to go through the debates without showing evidence. Remember Rick Perry couldn't remember the 3rd governmental agency he would abolish?  These things happen -- you'd need to see a pattern to suspect impairment and MANY people have been close to Biden for a while and would be concerned. And we saw him in what -- a dozen debates?   Yes -- if there was concern he should have been tested internally.   

And re: Trump -- I'm not sure that people who are concerned about Trump's mental health are thinking it's a cognitive impairment as much as it is a personality disorder.  This was not a screener for that.

Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2020, 09:30:38 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I really didn't want to give this a new thread, but couldn't find a logical place to put it.

DJT claims on Hannity to have taken a cognitive abilities test (in 2018) and apparently he really impressed the doctors!

"I actually took one when I, uh, very recently, when I was, uh, when I was — you know the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there ‘cause I aced it, I aced the test, and he should take the same exact test (Biden), a very standard test at Walter Reed Medical Center. I took it in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. They said, ‘That’s an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did.’"

The test he took apparently was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment.   This is a test for dementia.  It is effective as a screener for  dementia or the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's where they'd be looking for early signs of cognitive impairment.  A non-passing score on the MoCA leads to more precise testing.

Trump is very proud of "Acing" a test that is a simple screener for dementia.  The reality is that most people who take it do "Ace" it -- as 26/30 is considered the cut-off for concern.   

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-English.pdf

Look at it and you'll see. It is remarkably easy for a reason. If you don't score extremely well, it is an indicator that there is something wrong with your cognitive ability. 

That Trump would brag about this and, OF COURSE, lie about it ("They said, that's an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did"), is really just frightening.  Actually, whenever a person without impairment takes this screener, they do extremely well. If Trump had missed a single point on this, it would have been a concern.

I'm not saying Biden should take it -- but truth be told if he didn't score perfectly on it, it would actually be concerning.  I suppose it's not really a risk for Biden to take it -- it's one of many attempts Trump will make in the next 4 months to goad Biden.

Given that the only proof Trump took it seems to be his word (which is not worth much), why would Biden even have to actually take it?

Honestly, I'm more impressed that people questioning Trump's cognitive abilities made him question himself enough to go and get tested. If he were trying to prove it to anyone but himself, why would he wait 2 years to say anything about it?

Exactly. I'm really surprised that 1) they actually convinced him to take it, and 2) he wants to publicly talk about it

First off - they asked him to take a remarkably simple "test".  Secondly, it took me about 5 minutes to find the actual test on the internet.   Yes, if you cheat on your SATs you might not feel morally opposed to cheating on the MoCA screener.   

Biden shouldn't take it.  It is not an intelligence test. On the off-chance that he misses one point (which, btw, would worry me a little) -- Trump could say he outscored Biden (I'm assuming Trump got a 30/30 which people without cognitive impairment should do).  Trump's folks could then go to town on the fact that Biden missed a point on an incredibly basic cognitive screening instrument.

It’s better to potentially have a president in cognitive decline than to give Trump a talking point?

This is a dementia test.  Dementia affects 24% of people 80 or older, a category Biden would fall into in his first term.  We saw cognitive decline in Ronald Reagan. It’s a test all Presidents over 70  should take.

Quote
Is it true that we should be concerned that any person who is 77 has a cognitive impairment?  I don't think so.

The chances of a 77 year old developing dementia are much higher than a 40 year old woman developing breast cancer, or a 50 year old man developing colon cancer.  Yet, both get routine screenings.
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Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2020, 09:40:12 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Biden would be lucky to name the planet he is on .  He is toast .

Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2020, 09:41:31 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I really didn't want to give this a new thread, but couldn't find a logical place to put it.

DJT claims on Hannity to have taken a cognitive abilities test (in 2018) and apparently he really impressed the doctors!

"I actually took one when I, uh, very recently, when I was, uh, when I was — you know the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there ‘cause I aced it, I aced the test, and he should take the same exact test (Biden), a very standard test at Walter Reed Medical Center. I took it in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. They said, ‘That’s an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did.’"

The test he took apparently was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment.   This is a test for dementia.  It is effective as a screener for  dementia or the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's where they'd be looking for early signs of cognitive impairment.  A non-passing score on the MoCA leads to more precise testing.

Trump is very proud of "Acing" a test that is a simple screener for dementia.  The reality is that most people who take it do "Ace" it -- as 26/30 is considered the cut-off for concern.   

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-English.pdf

Look at it and you'll see. It is remarkably easy for a reason. If you don't score extremely well, it is an indicator that there is something wrong with your cognitive ability. 

That Trump would brag about this and, OF COURSE, lie about it ("They said, that's an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did"), is really just frightening.  Actually, whenever a person without impairment takes this screener, they do extremely well. If Trump had missed a single point on this, it would have been a concern.

I'm not saying Biden should take it -- but truth be told if he didn't score perfectly on it, it would actually be concerning.  I suppose it's not really a risk for Biden to take it -- it's one of many attempts Trump will make in the next 4 months to goad Biden.

Given that the only proof Trump took it seems to be his word (which is not worth much), why would Biden even have to actually take it?

Honestly, I'm more impressed that people questioning Trump's cognitive abilities made him question himself enough to go and get tested. If he were trying to prove it to anyone but himself, why would he wait 2 years to say anything about it?

Exactly. I'm really surprised that 1) they actually convinced him to take it, and 2) he wants to publicly talk about it

First off - they asked him to take a remarkably simple "test".  Secondly, it took me about 5 minutes to find the actual test on the internet.   Yes, if you cheat on your SATs you might not feel morally opposed to cheating on the MoCA screener.   

Biden shouldn't take it.  It is not an intelligence test. On the off-chance that he misses one point (which, btw, would worry me a little) -- Trump could say he outscored Biden (I'm assuming Trump got a 30/30 which people without cognitive impairment should do).  Trump's folks could then go to town on the fact that Biden missed a point on an incredibly basic cognitive screening instrument.

It’s better to potentially have a president in cognitive decline than to give Trump a talking point?

This is a dementia test.  Dementia affects 24% of people 80 or older, a category Biden would fall into in his first term.  We saw cognitive decline in Ronald Reagan. It’s a test all Presidents over 70  should take.

I guess I don't really have a big problem with any candidate over 70 having to pass a cognitive screener as basic as this.  There's a mild amount of ageism there, but I do get the point.

If Trump's talking point was about his concern that 70+ folks should be screened, I wouldn't deny him his talking point. I guess you are correct about that.

But his talking point was actually that he has some special cognitive ability that the doctors were amazed by as revealed by this screening.  This is a lie.  So I do decline that talking point, although his statement does provide some additional evidence of personality disorder.

Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2020, 09:44:07 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I really didn't want to give this a new thread, but couldn't find a logical place to put it.

DJT claims on Hannity to have taken a cognitive abilities test (in 2018) and apparently he really impressed the doctors!

"I actually took one when I, uh, very recently, when I was, uh, when I was — you know the radical left was saying, ‘Is he all there? Is he all there?’ And I proved I was all there ‘cause I aced it, I aced the test, and he should take the same exact test (Biden), a very standard test at Walter Reed Medical Center. I took it in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. They said, ‘That’s an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did.’"

The test he took apparently was the Montreal Cognitive Assessment.   This is a test for dementia.  It is effective as a screener for  dementia or the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's where they'd be looking for early signs of cognitive impairment.  A non-passing score on the MoCA leads to more precise testing.

Trump is very proud of "Acing" a test that is a simple screener for dementia.  The reality is that most people who take it do "Ace" it -- as 26/30 is considered the cut-off for concern.   

https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/resources/MOCA-Test-English.pdf

Look at it and you'll see. It is remarkably easy for a reason. If you don't score extremely well, it is an indicator that there is something wrong with your cognitive ability. 

That Trump would brag about this and, OF COURSE, lie about it ("They said, that's an unbelievable thing, very rarely do people do what you just did"), is really just frightening.  Actually, whenever a person without impairment takes this screener, they do extremely well. If Trump had missed a single point on this, it would have been a concern.

I'm not saying Biden should take it -- but truth be told if he didn't score perfectly on it, it would actually be concerning.  I suppose it's not really a risk for Biden to take it -- it's one of many attempts Trump will make in the next 4 months to goad Biden.

Given that the only proof Trump took it seems to be his word (which is not worth much), why would Biden even have to actually take it?

Honestly, I'm more impressed that people questioning Trump's cognitive abilities made him question himself enough to go and get tested. If he were trying to prove it to anyone but himself, why would he wait 2 years to say anything about it?

Exactly. I'm really surprised that 1) they actually convinced him to take it, and 2) he wants to publicly talk about it

First off - they asked him to take a remarkably simple "test".  Secondly, it took me about 5 minutes to find the actual test on the internet.   Yes, if you cheat on your SATs you might not feel morally opposed to cheating on the MoCA screener.   

Biden shouldn't take it.  It is not an intelligence test. On the off-chance that he misses one point (which, btw, would worry me a little) -- Trump could say he outscored Biden (I'm assuming Trump got a 30/30 which people without cognitive impairment should do).  Trump's folks could then go to town on the fact that Biden missed a point on an incredibly basic cognitive screening instrument.

It’s better to potentially have a president in cognitive decline than to give Trump a talking point?

This is a dementia test.  Dementia affects 24% of people 80 or older, a category Biden would fall into in his first term.  We saw cognitive decline in Ronald Reagan. It’s a test all Presidents over 70  should take.

Quote
Is it true that we should be concerned that any person who is 77 has a cognitive impairment?  I don't think so.

The chances of a 77 year old developing dementia are much higher than a 40 year old woman developing breast cancer, or a 50 year old man developing colon cancer.  Yet, both get routine screenings.


That is correct, and it is a legitimate problem that people over 70 are not routinely tested for dementia. Especially considering that it take only 5-10 minutes and doesn't cost much to conduct it.

I think a significant reason why it's not done routinely though is that there really is no treatment for dementia. There's not much they can do for people if they fail that test, and it would only depress them during the few remaining good years they have left. Also, most people over 70 are not carrying out such critically important jobs that will impact the safety and lives of others if they have early stage dementia. 

In comparison, there's a heck of a lot they can do for cancer , especially if they catch it early.


Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2020, 09:46:45 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Biden would be lucky to name the planet he is on .  He is toast .

I'm convinced the Biden we are seeing in 2020 so far is remote controlled and/or a robot.

Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2020, 09:48:49 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
But his talking point was actually that he has some special cognitive ability that the doctors were amazed by as revealed by this screening.  This is a lie.  So I do decline that talking point, although his statement does provide some additional evidence of personality disorder.

I think the smart thing for Biden to do is hit back.  Not only should he take the test, but he should embrace the need for the test, segwaying into a call for all insurance companies to pay for cognition tests in all seniors, better access to expensive drugs, etc.  To Trump, dementia is a talking point, something he only cares about as a cudgel.  Biden is compassionate toward the millions of families affected by this crippling illness.  Etc., etc.
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Re: Trump's "Cognitive" Test
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2020, 10:58:48 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Nah, Biden shouldnt take the test. That is playing defense, Biden should be on the attack.