You are moving goal posts. This discussion was about removing statues because of political / cultural meanings.
This is what Sen. Tammy Duckworth "TRIED" to explain just recently about the title of this thread...
She stated eloquently that there NEEDS to be NATIONAL DIALOGUE about this...and then she was promptly ridiculed and labeled "America Hater" by our "HEROIC" Tucker Carlson....
The SAME TC that "served" on Dancing with the Stars while Mrs. Tammy was laying it on the line for her country
Keep it classy, TC...do the funky chicken for me.
Anyways sarcasm aside there DOES need to be SERIOUS "NATIONAL" dialogue about this...I know Pres. Trump has already taken his stance but he has less than 4 months left in office...
Once he is voted out this discussion WILL STILL BE relevant.
Tucker is a coward who has never had any skin in the game.
I mean....his disrespect of Sen. Duckworth was just SO over the top....
She DID NOT say - "Yes - take ALL Confederate statues down...."
She simply stated that there needs to be national dialogue about it and TC ripped into her for no reason.........
It wasn't just about confederates. It's disingenuous to pretend she wasn't talking about our founders as well.
If we are to take statues down for reasons, should we also prevent the theory of evolution being taught given Darwin was a racist as well? Where does the purge stop? Who decides?
False equivalence. "Honoring" vs "teaching information about". Not the same.
The point of removing the statues is to discontinue honoring and idolation of figures who, based on what we know now, should not be honored. For example, we should not be honoring figures who were, in fact, enemies of the Union.
That doesn't mean we stop teaching as fact what the figures did in history and what we learned from their existence.
Whether Darwin was a racist may mean we should not honor him as a person of the highest moral character. But that doesn't mean we should not teach what he did and what we learned through him because that knowledge is more important than the man.
I can understand opposition to confederate statues, however I don't like what that has led to. It started with taking them down and here we are now looking at taking down Mt. Rushmore. I believe that many laughed at Trump for saying it would lead to this and here we are.
How do we know his science was flawed based on what we know of his views? You see where this is heading?
We are in the midst of a cultural revolution and those don't usually end well. The goal here is not just to remove statues, but the very foundation on which the country was set on.
Nah. This is just a straw man. Just because a handful of people with extreme views might suggest bringing down Rushmore doesn't make a real thing that is ever really going to happen.
And even if people talk about it, then it's just talk. Talk is good. Way better than not talking. TALK to people and let them know why you disagree with the idea of taking down a particular statue - and base it on the merits of that particular statue.
Strawman? I just gave a quote from a representative saying we should discuss it. We have people tearing down statues of abolitionists. You honestly think they will stop there? You underestimate the motives.
You know......"MAYBE" if this country had MORE African American or other HEROES or HEROINES as statues then perhaps it wouldn't even be at the point it is, now.
But Noooooo......I can hear the arguments, now...
"But it will cost TOO MUCH to erect a statue of Harriet Tubman........"
I'm perfectly fine having more, but that is not what is being asked for by the mobs taking the status down.
What is very alarming to me is the same people demanding we tear down the statues I've mentioned, have not said a word about the statue of Lenin in Seattle. Not only have they failed to call for its removal, it remains untouched.
What that tells me is, the leadership behind the mobs find our founders more of an eyesore and evil than a man that killed millions.
That statue of Lenin in Seattle is privately owned and sitting on private property. So it really is apples vs oranges compared to statues sitting on public property.
It has also been 'on sale' for decades waiting for a buyer (and so far getting no takers) so it serves more a target for mockery than anything else.
Oh, so these people ripping things down respect private property? Lol. Right, these mobs have totally shown respect for not destroying property.
Can you provide a link to an example of an actual civil-rights movement-associated effort calling for the removal of any such privately owned statue off of private land? I'm sure such a thing anecdotally exists (because it's a big wide, varied world) but I could not find such.
Do you even know the history behind the Lenin statue? It was literally reclaimed off a scrap yard and was saved mainly as a novelty with the hope to sell it. It isn't set up for anyone to 'honor'. If it's existence offends you, why don't you buy it and destroy it? I can almost guarantee you not many would care if you did. You could probably raise the money via GoFundme. Good luck.
The very same people who you claim are not aggressive to private property are the very same people throwing molotovs into store windows. I can't believe you're even trying to make this case to be honest. That isn't a civil rights movement, that is terrorism. Ripping down a statue of Fredrick Douglas, one that was paid for by freed slaves, and others of those who LITERALLY gave their life to free black people is not the mark of a civil rights movement.
Your are also making huge, sweeping false equivalences, equating a tiny percentage of looters & rioters with much larger, overwhelmingly peaceful political protest movements - and you make this equivalence even as you identify that no, such looters are not a political movement.
You are angryguy, I get it. But your anger is scattershot all over the place.
Be honest, do you really think if the mob walked by a house with a statue of Lee or Columbus they would say "well that's on private property so we'll respect that." The very same people who would deface the Lincoln memorial wouldn't rip down a statue because of a no tresspassing sign? It doesn't matter what kind of property these things are on. They've said they will "burn it all down" until their demands are met. Please provide an actual example of this ever happening. Thx.
I know the history of this statue. On one hand we have the calls to remove statues of patriots, on the other we have crickets over a statue of a man who murdered millions. You go ahead and justify this hypocrisy all you want.
Ah yes. This tired logical fallacy. Because one didn't criticize bad thing X one is a hypocrite for criticizing bad thing Y.
Sorry, bad thing Y is still a bad thing independent of whether one called out X as well. One is not a hypocrite just because one doesn't call out every single equally-or-worse bad thing.
The reality is that 99.99999% of folks around the country have probably never even _heard_ of the Lenin statue that apparently has triggered your anger so strongly. They aren't hypocrites for not calling for it's immediate destruction. They simply have other things on their minds.
Again: Please start a GoFundMe to purchase and destroy the Lenin statue. It is for sale. Nothing is truly stopping you from securing it's destruction if you care about it that much. I promise I will donate to it.
No I’m not moving goalposts at all. You seem to think because civil rights movements don’t destroy status on private property, that somehow means not calling for the removal of a statue of lenin, that is visible to the public, is not hypocritical. It’s promoted by the city’s website. Can I ask you if the feds ask property owners if they can put a statue on their property, or do they usually put it on gov owned land? Your whole excuse for this is based on something that isn’t grounded in reality. The issue yet again is these people tearing down statues are not engaging in a movement, it is mob rule at best, terrorism at the worst. https://www.newsweek.com/blm-leader-well-burn-system-down-if-us-wont-give-us-what-we-want-1513422
In addition to this call for violence, we also had a BLM leader call for the removal of pictures of Jesus on private property that are white. Now we have their actual words and demands, but I’m way off base for pointing out the Lenin statue. I’m sure they will stop at the property line.
“The presence of this sculpture has evoked a wide range of responses. If art is supposed to make us feel, not just feel good, then this sculpture is a successful work of art. The challenge is to understand that this piece means different things to different people and to learn to listen to each other and respect different opinions. From an artists standpoint, all points of view are valid and important.” It’s sad those on the left seemingly only feel this way about their approved art.
You keep thinking it makes me angry, and no it doesn’t. I don’t believe we should engage in tactics that are a go-to in Marxist revolutions. In fact, I agree with the statement from the statue’s website:
I’m just pointing out as I said a blatant hypocrisy. It’s not about your “Y” and “X” logic, it’s about being consistent. They are engaging in a purge of “evil” representation in our country. If you are going to purge and say you have the moral authority to do it, then you do not get to pick and choose. This is an all or nothing game they are playing, or so they want you think.
To give you more evidence that this isn’t about race bur replacing our culture, there are statues of Robert Byrd, LBJ, Margret Sanger left unmolested. I’m not aware of any actual calls for their removal by leaders of BLM and others. President Franklin Pierce of NH, President James Buchanan of PA and presidential candidate Stephen Douglas, all defenders of slavery, are surprisingly left alone.
You also are really trying hard to make me say every single person who has marched is committing these acts of anarchy. I have not said that nor will I. Many have though and that is undeniable.