Author Topic: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime  (Read 3413 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2020, 10:30:44 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5055
  • Tommy Points: 829
I don’t know all of the answers.  I am willing to go much farther than most conservatives, and even some liberals, in terms of gun control.  I would like to see no possession of guns outside the home except for hunting and gun ranges. Add other sensible measures, such as a national registry, restrictions on clip sizes, etc.

I’d also illegal for any person who has committed any crime to possess a firearm for one year.  If it’s a crime of violence or a felony, it’s a permanent restriction.  Anybody with a criminal conviction is subject to random search and testing outside of their home.  Any guns are forfeited and destroyed upon any felony or crime of violence conviction.

Finally, I’d make membership in organizations that promote violent and illegal acts illegal.  Street gangs, the KKK, etc.  If they’re engaged in illegal activities, and that’s one of the primary purposes of the organization, all members are legally liable.  Police could search all such people upon articulable suspicion.

The above wouldn’t end all gun violence, but it would be a start.

TP - this would be incredible. We have become so numb to violence from guns in this country. It is a total joke - and disgusting - how we compare to the rest of the world in gun deaths. People are so desperate to cling to their 2nd amendment rights without valuing what would actually be best for the rest of society. Sadly, your proposition has very little chance of happening in our lifetimes.

I like all of Roy's suggestions.  I would add that I think the technology is definitely available such that we should mandate biometric gun-locks.   Even to the point of offering taxpayer-paid retro-fits.

Making it so that no gun could be fired except by it's legal owner would at least help curb the problem of illegal guns being used in crimes.  Not a 100% solution, obviously. 
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2020, 07:50:08 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4195
  • Tommy Points: 629
I admit that I haven't thought enough about what gun control would be good. I still come from a second amendment-touting background. I have latent fears that if we set a precedent of restricting gun control, it would not be difficult for the federal government to use the same laws but then redefine the terms against anyone that regime saw fit to restrict.

Just for example, if those precedents were already set, could you not see our current president using those restrictions against the BLM movement? Obviously, this is a complex issue because some in the BLM movement have been violent and destructive, but the vast majority haven't. Do we really have to squint very hard to envision a president like Donald Trump using any power he owns and disregarding the office and oath in order to further his agenda or benefit his reelection campaign?

Perhaps Donald Trump is an unique president. Perhaps the vast majority of presidents have more respect for our country than that. But I still struggle with giving any president that much power.

And yet, I still think something needs to be done.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2020, 08:46:55 AM »

Offline greg683x

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3454
  • Tommy Points: 539
I don’t know all of the answers.  I am willing to go much farther than most conservatives, and even some liberals, in terms of gun control.  I would like to see no possession of guns outside the home except for hunting and gun ranges. Add other sensible measures, such as a national registry, restrictions on clip sizes, etc.

I’d also illegal for any person who has committed any crime to possess a firearm for one year.  If it’s a crime of violence or a felony, it’s a permanent restriction.  Anybody with a criminal conviction is subject to random search and testing outside of their home.  Any guns are forfeited and destroyed upon any felony or crime of violence conviction.

Finally, I’d make membership in organizations that promote violent and illegal acts illegal.  Street gangs, the KKK, etc.  If they’re engaged in illegal activities, and that’s one of the primary purposes of the organization, all members are legally liable.  Police could search all such people upon articulable suspicion.

The above wouldn’t end all gun violence, but it would be a start.
I think this is a pretty solid proposal that most Americans would support.  I think you'd have a helluva time trying to get a legal definition of those organizations that'd stick in a court of law that wasn't supported by a RICO charge but I think it's a valid concern to try to address.

my goodness Roy, we agree on something!  does that make you a 'liberal' now or does that make me a 'conservative'?  ;)

I am definitely left of center on this issue.  We’ve gotten to the point in our society where many don’t even bat an eye when a child is murdered.

Jon Benet Ramsey goes missing, we get years of coverage.  Some poor kid gets killed, and barely anybody notices.  And it blows.

I got accused of being racist for starting this thread, which blows my mind.  I don’t know how anybody can care about their fellow citizens without wanting to save as many as possible from needless deaths.  It’s something I’m frustrated with within the GOP.  We talk about everybody’s life mattering, having a right to life, sanctity of life, etc., then forget all that when it comes to possession of killing machines.
I agree, there's too little attention paid to the sheer volume of deaths in this country from gun violence regardless of the cause. unfortunately, it takes a mass shooting in a school, church, concert, etc..  to catch the media's eye. 

I'm not looking for a repeal of the second amendment, just sensible limitations/responsibilities that should go along with owning a firearm.  if the rights guaranteed in the first amendment can be limited for the betterment/safety of the general public, there's no reason the second amendment can't also be addressed for the good of the public.

There are several states that have really tightened the gun laws for their citizens, So you can’t say the 2nd amendment hasn’t been addressed.  But there’s also a ton of states that are still ‘constitutional carry’ states where you can literally carry your gun anywhere.  No one should be allowed to carry their gun into a [dang] toy store where people are shopping with their kids

I’m probably more for the 2nd amendment than most people but constitutional carry states are ridiculous.  Maryland, where I live has some very strict gun laws, ones similar to what Roy pointed out.  It’s basically impossible to get a carry permit here which means legally the only reason a gun should be leaving your house is to either hunt or go to the gun range.  No mags over 10 rounds, You have to pass a class and receive a license before you can buy a handgun, etc. personally I think it’s dumb that gun laws change by state, they should find a way to make a nationwide set of rules to follow.

I think though that given what’s currently going on in the country you’re going to be hard pressed at the moment to get stricter gun laws passed. I think there’s a lot of Americans who went to go purchase guns because of this pandemic and also the rioting and looting And got a rude awaking when they went to a gun store and walked away empty handed.  I think over the  past 3-4 months a lot of citizens realized that the 2nd amendment does serve a practical purpose in this day and age so my guess is people would be less inclined to vote for stricter gun laws than in years past
Greg

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2020, 11:29:09 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41869
  • Tommy Points: -27135
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Chicago:

Quote
There have already been at least 67 people shot in Chicago over the Fourth of July weekend. Within four hours, from 11 p.m. Saturday to 3 a.m. Sunday, 36 people were shot. There were at least 13 killed during the holiday weekend, including a 7-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy.

Nine of the weekend's shooting victims were minors, a worrying trend of children being shot and killed in Chicago. A 7-year-old girl was killed over the holiday weekend.

Natalie Wallace was playing on a sidewalk outside of her grandmother's home around 7 p.m. on Saturday in the city's Austin neighborhood when three men got out of a car and sprayed more than 20 rounds in the direction of a family's Fourth of July party, which had children present. The 7-year-old was shot in the forehead and pronounced dead at the Stroger Hospital of Cook County.

"Tonight, a 7-year-old girl in Austin joined a list of teenagers and children whose hopes and dreams were ended by the barrel of a gun," Mayor Lori Lightfoot said on Twitter. "We cannot grow numb to this. We are making progress in slowing shootings, but we have to do better, every single one of us."


A 14-year-old boy was shot and killed in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood on the South Side. The attack, which happened at a large gathering, killed four people, and wounded four others, including an 11-year-old boy and a 15-year-old boy.

This is the third week in a row where a young child died from gun violence in Chicago. In the two weeks leading up to the Fourth of July weekend, seven children under the age of 18 were killed in Chicago.


Atlanta:

Quote
Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms slammed the local community on Sunday during a press conference about the death of 8-year-old Secoriea Turner, who was killed on Saturday evening when an armed group of individuals opened fire on a car that she was riding in near the Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed last month.

“Officers said they responded to a 911 call near University Avenue and I-75/I-85 around 9:50 p.m.,” WSB-TV reported. “The location of the shooting was in a parking lot across the street from the now burned-out Wendy’s, which has been occupied by demonstrators since Brooks’ death at the hands of an Atlanta police officer.”

At a press conference, Bottoms slammed the violent act and noted that locals were inflicting more harm on the community than any police officer ever has.

“Secoriea Turner was shot and killed last night, and it was not by the hands of police officers,” Bottoms said. “It was by the hands of a coward, cowards, who are still out and about in our community. This happened … near the Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed a few weeks ago.”

“We’ve talk a lot about what we are demanding from our officers in our communities,” Bottoms continued. “We’ve protested, we’ve demonstrated, we’ve been angry, we’ve cried, we’ve demanded action. We’ll now we’re demanding action for Secoriea Turner and for all of the other people who were shot in Atlanta last night and over the past few weeks because the reality is this – these aren’t police officers shooting people on the streets of Atlanta, these are members of the community shooting each other, and in this case, it is the worst possible outcome.”

Quote
“Again, I tell you if you are looking to be part of the solution and not the problem then you are going to have to clear out of that area,” she said. “This discussion and mediation is over. At the point that an 8-year-old baby was killed, the discussion has ended.”

About an hour after the press conference, police reported a triple shooting on Pryor Road, about 200 feet from where Secoriea was shot. Police said Sunday night at least one person died.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 11:55:31 PM by Roy H. »
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2020, 11:33:23 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • Global Moderator
  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13878
  • Tommy Points: 786
  • 2019 CS Historical Draft Champion
Quote
There have already been at least 67 people shot in Chicago over the Fourth of July weekend. Within four hours, from 11 p.m. Saturday to 3 a.m. Sunday, 36 people were shot. There were at least 13 killed during the holiday weekend, including a 7-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy.

Nine of the weekend's shooting victims were minors, a worrying trend of children being shot and killed in Chicago. A 7-year-old girl was killed over the holiday weekend.

Natalie Wallace was playing on a sidewalk outside of her grandmother's home around 7 p.m. on Saturday in the city's Austin neighborhood when three men got out of a car and sprayed more than 20 rounds in the direction of a family's Fourth of July party, which had children present. The 7-year-old was shot in the forehead and pronounced dead at the Stroger Hospital of Cook County.

"Tonight, a 7-year-old girl in Austin joined a list of teenagers and children whose hopes and dreams were ended by the barrel of a gun," Mayor Lori Lightfoot said on Twitter. "We cannot grow numb to this. We are making progress in slowing shootings, but we have to do better, every single one of us."


A 14-year-old boy was shot and killed in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood on the South Side. The attack, which happened at a large gathering, killed four people, and wounded four others, including an 11-year-old boy and a 15-year-old boy.

This is the third week in a row where a young child died from gun violence in Chicago. In the two weeks leading up to the Fourth of July weekend, seven children under the age of 18 were killed in Chicago.


Quote
Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms slammed the local community on Sunday during a press conference about the death of 8-year-old Secoriea Turner, who was killed on Saturday evening when an armed group of individuals opened fire on a car that she was riding in near the Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed last month.

“Officers said they responded to a 911 call near University Avenue and I-75/I-85 around 9:50 p.m.,” WSB-TV reported. “The location of the shooting was in a parking lot across the street from the now burned-out Wendy’s, which has been occupied by demonstrators since Brooks’ death at the hands of an Atlanta police officer.”

At a press conference, Bottoms slammed the violent act and noted that locals were inflicting more harm on the community than any police officer ever has.

“Secoriea Turner was shot and killed last night, and it was not by the hands of police officers,” Bottoms said. “It was by the hands of a coward, cowards, who are still out and about in our community. This happened … near the Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed a few weeks ago.”

“We’ve talk a lot about what we are demanding from our officers in our communities,” Bottoms continued. “We’ve protested, we’ve demonstrated, we’ve been angry, we’ve cried, we’ve demanded action. We’ll now we’re demanding action for Secoriea Turner and for all of the other people who were shot in Atlanta last night and over the past few weeks because the reality is this – these aren’t police officers shooting people on the streets of Atlanta, these are members of the community shooting each other, and in this case, it is the worst possible outcome.”
67 people shot over one holiday weekend?? That number is unbelievable (not literally)

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2020, 06:14:35 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14595
  • Tommy Points: 2682
You know...I believe MOST people here on this blog WANT to do SOMETHING..."WANT" to do SOMETHING about cases like this....senseless shooting.

BUT - Not MANY of us have the COURAGE to TRULY do what is necessary to BRING ABOUT change...

Let's be real, here - "SERIOUS" Gun Control "WILL" affect EVERYONE in this country....

I get it...we are saddened by acts of violence like this but AGAIN - "SERIOUS" Gun control will affect just about EVERYONE in the U.S......."WILL" ruffle NRA's Feathers........

Will affect their pockets.

I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it AGAIN - I REALLY believe the ONLY people in this country that should have GUNS are Law Enforcement AND the Military.

Hire MORE Police Officers in the event of even more STRINGENT Gun Control efforts - if we want to feel SAFE.

Allow TASERS to be available to U.S. Citizens......just take the GUNS away..

Hire MORE Mental Health professionals.

FINALLY - The folks that KLB are speaking about would PROBABLY pass a Mental Health evaluation, I'd guess.....these people probably had beef to settle and the little girl killed was just an innocent bystander.

Let's do more GUN BUY BACKS.....back in the day I remember Police Departments - from time to time - setting up tables in communities and BUYING BACK guns....I can't remember IF this was with the caveat that they couldn't be traced back but STILL the effort of getting GUNS off the streets was COMMENDABLE.......

We all feel better venting about the senseless killing but WHEN will the country do something SERIOUS about it?
Augustus Freeman IV - the Superman of the South. Read Milestone Comics.

Good Trouble.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2020, 07:18:10 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41869
  • Tommy Points: -27135
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Gun control is important, GF.  Unfortunately, it’s unlikely to happen in any meaningful way.

I worry just as much about culture.  How did we get to a point where every dispute has to be settled by violence?  Why does somebody think it’s okay to shoot an eight year old because her mother attempted a U-turn in an “occupied zone”?

Our cities have been a war zone for 60 years.  We need to break up the gangs, fix the schools, and bring investment.  It can’t be a partisan issue, though.  It would be a huge undertaking, but it’s worthwhile.  If people truly believe in equal opportunity, then we as a people need to make it so that every child has the ability to grow up safe and with proper resources.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2020, 07:22:11 AM »

Offline OhioGreen

  • Tacko Fall
  • Posts: 645
  • Tommy Points: 48
Let's be real, here - "SERIOUS" Gun Control "WILL" affect EVERYONE in this country....

Ridiculous statement!  People still don't get it!  We ALREADY have literally "thousands" of gun control laws in this country!  They DON'T affect everyone!  Criminals laugh at them!  Wake up!

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2020, 08:15:14 AM »

Offline greg683x

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3454
  • Tommy Points: 539
Let's be real, here - "SERIOUS" Gun Control "WILL" affect EVERYONE in this country....

Ridiculous statement!  People still don't get it!  We ALREADY have literally "thousands" of gun control laws in this country!  They DON'T affect everyone!  Criminals laugh at them!  Wake up!

I don’t think GFs statement is ridiculous.  I’m someone that supports the 2nd amendment and I own a few guns myself, but I can at least agree with GF that this country has gun control work to do.

I will NEVER support a law that deprives me of my right to defend my ‘castle’ and my family.  That being said, I think the rest of the country needs to adopt the strict gun laws that states like MD, Massachusetts, Cali, and New York have.  No carry permits Of any kind for citizens, you need a license for a handgun, and the only time a handgun should leave your house is to go to a gun range.  You have a right to defend your house and your family, but outside of your home, it’s the duty of police and military to fight criminals.

That being said, if the entire country adopted stricter gun laws, or if the whole country banned guns like GF said, it doesn’t matter.  Criminals are still going to have guns.  It won’t solve the problems we’re reading about in these articles Roy posted
Greg

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2020, 09:59:07 AM »

Offline greg683x

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3454
  • Tommy Points: 539
Not to hijack the thread....

GreenFaith, what new name for the Skins has your vote?
Greg

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2020, 09:59:44 AM »

Offline NKY fan

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1087
  • Tommy Points: 55
Let's be real, here - "SERIOUS" Gun Control "WILL" affect EVERYONE in this country....

Ridiculous statement!  People still don't get it!  We ALREADY have literally "thousands" of gun control laws in this country!  They DON'T affect everyone!  Criminals laugh at them!  Wake up!

I don’t think GFs statement is ridiculous.  I’m someone that supports the 2nd amendment and I own a few guns myself, but I can at least agree with GF that this country has gun control work to do.

I will NEVER support a law that deprives me of my right to defend my ‘castle’ and my family.  That being said, I think the rest of the country needs to adopt the strict gun laws that states like MD, Massachusetts, Cali, and New York have.  No carry permits Of any kind for citizens, you need a license for a handgun, and the only time a handgun should leave your house is to go to a gun range.  You have a right to defend your house and your family, but outside of your home, it’s the duty of police and military to fight criminals.

That being said, if the entire country adopted stricter gun laws, or if the whole country banned guns like GF said, it doesn’t matter.  Criminals are still going to have guns.  It won’t solve the problems we’re reading about in these articles Roy posted
I don’t think you need to worry too much about criminals with guns as long as you don’t get in their way too much.
What you should worry about is the nut  jobs that already have guns. And the ones that pass the strict gun control checks to obtain a gun and go crazy years down the line ... those are in the 10s of thousands if not 100 thousand low abiding citizens that fit that description

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2020, 10:03:19 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41869
  • Tommy Points: -27135
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
As Yasmin Miller drove home from a laundromat in Chicago’s Englewood neighborhood last weekend, a gunman in another car peppered her red Hyundai sedan with bullets, grazing her head and striking her son, Sincere Gaston, in the chest. Sincere died in his car seat. He was 20 months old.

On June 20, a man fired gunshots through the back of a dark blue SUV, wounding the 27-year-old man driving and hitting his stepson, Mekhi James, in the back, killing him. Mekhi was 3.

SCROLL TO CONTINUE WITH CONTENTAd

The New Samsung Galaxy A10e and A20
Spectrum
The New Samsung Galaxy A10e and A20
Finally, the phone you need to keep connected with friends and family at a price that fits you and your budget. Now available on Spectrum Mobile.
LEARN MORE
Two other girls, both aged 3, were hospitalized with gunshot wounds in separate incidents in recent days — one after her mother thought she heard fireworks and turned around to see her daughter collapsed on the ground.

These were just the toddlers.

In all, nine children under 18 have been killed since June 20 as Chicago reels from another wave of gun violence. The last two were killed Saturday evening. A 14-year-old boy was shot to death on Chicago’s South Side. A 7-year-old girl was struck in the forehead by a bullet when three gunmen opened fire on a July 4 street party on the city’s West Side, police said.

“The Windy City is becoming the Bloody City,” said the Rev. Michael L. Pfleger of Saint Sabina Church, calling it the worst period in the 45 years he has worked on social issues. “I have never seen the despair, hopelessness and anger all mixed together at the level it is right now.”

- ADVERTISEMENT -

The violence comes amid a wrenching debate nationwide about policing in the wake of the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis at the hands of police. Those who defend the police say that the violence shows they need more support, not less, and that it is people living in high-crime areas who most need effective policing. Critics say the violence shows how police are failing the public, how deeply residents distrust officers and the need for reforms and the transfer of funds to address underlying problems, including unemployment, mental illness and drug use.

At least 336 people have been murdered in Chicago this year as of Thursday, according to the Chicago Police Department, a homicide rate on track to hit the 2016 record of 778 deaths. (New York City, with almost three times the population, had 176 murders as of June 28.)

Chicago had 658 murders in 2017, 567 in 2018 and 492 in 2019, according to Chicago police records.

Before the July 4 weekend, Mayor Lori Lightfoot made an appeal to young men, who she said were responsible for the bulk of the shootings. “Think about the number of children that have been killed just in the last two weeks,” she said at a news conference. “Families that will not recover from this hardship. Mothers’ hearts that are broken, fathers’ hearts that are destroyed, grandparents who are living in mourning.”

Chicago is not alone. Before the coronavirus hit, homicides were escalating nationwide in early 2020, and although the lockdown brought a pause, they began rising again as the stay-at-home measures were lifted. A national study showed that homicide rates fell in 39 of 64 major cities during April and began creeping up in May.

The pandemic has added significant stress on the communities that already suffer the most violence. Impoverished neighborhoods like Englewood also have some of the highest rates of COVID-19 infections and deaths. Overall, there have been 53,375 known coronavirus cases in Chicago and at least 2,631 deaths, according to statistics from the state.

Unemployment in some of the most affected areas rose to 35% from 28% during the pandemic, Pfleger said.

“That is the tragedy,” he said. “The bad situation in this city got even worse with the pandemic. It exposed the reality that Black and brown communities are disproportionately affected.”

“Because this is not one crisis, this is two crises operating at the same time, this could in fact be worse than what we saw in 2016,” said Thomas Abt, a senior fellow at the Council on Criminal Justice and an author of the nationwide homicide study by Arnold Ventures, a philanthropy focused on criminal justice.

Distrust of police is also a contributing factor as many residents of the hardest-hit neighborhoods feel reluctant to call on law enforcement, perhaps even more so since the death of Floyd and the nationwide protests against police brutality that followed it.

People who have lost trust in police are more prone to settle scores on their own, experts said. “The lack of trust, the lack of confidence in police and the lack of willingness to use police, I think is going to have a broader effect,” Abt said.

Police too are feeling the strain as they try to confront both the violence in the city and the pandemic. “All of the people and organizations that we usually depend on to respond to homicide and violent crime are overburdened right now,” Abt said.

Chicago’s new police superintendent, David O. Brown, who took the job in April, had vowed to keep murders this year below 300. That bench mark has fallen.

Brown called the open-air drug markets on street corners “the precursors” to much of the violence, with the drug sellers employing teenagers with no criminal history so they will be released if caught.

Asked about how they are addressing the gun violence, he said that police are confiscating guns — 4,629 so far this year, more than 10,000 last year. He repeatedly appealed to the public for help, saying that residents knew something about the perpetrators in most cases.

A low rate in solving murders — it hovers around 20% — and the lack of protection for witnesses both play into the continued high murder rate, criminologists said. Murderers do not expect to get caught and witnesses feel intimidated, they said.

The Chicago Police Department let its community policing program wither about two decades ago, said Wesley G. Skogan, of the Institute for Policy Research at Northwestern University. Now, young police officers canvassing unfamiliar blocks have found that residents do not open their doors out of fear of being seen talking to a police officer, he said.

Thomas Ahern, the Police Department spokesman, disputed the notion that community policing was being neglected. He cited Operation Clean, which works to spruce up neighborhoods including fixing streetlights, repairing damaged buildings and removing graffiti.

Many residents think that is not enough, however. The city needs to do more to protect witnesses, said the Rev. Ira Acree of the Greater St. John Bible Church.

“People want to tell, but they are afraid,” Acree told a community meeting that he organized to discuss the shootings, adding that people approach him repeatedly about doing the right thing. They tell him, he said, “I want to go to heaven, but I do not want to go this week.”

He called the death of children “heartbreaking” for the community. “There was a time even in the gangs, there was some code of ethics, you would not bother the kids or the old ladies. They were off limits,” he said.

The debate over rising violence is also tangled in both local and national politics.

President Donald Trump weighed in on the killings in late June, sending a letter addressed to Gov. J.B. Pritzker and Lightfoot, saying that the U.S. government could help revitalize distressed neighborhoods, but “you must establish law and order.” The mayor accused the president of trying to play politics rather than to help.

Kimberly M. Foxx, prosecutor for Cook County, has been a strong advocate for reducing the prison population through measures like release without bail, erasing marijuana convictions and not prosecuting low-level crimes like shoplifting.

The police union, also at odds with Lightfoot over her criticism of some of their actions during the recent unrest, opposes the bail policies.

Chicago’s toll has mounted steadily since Memorial Day weekend — when 85 people were shot and 24 killed — which usually ushers in summer violence. During a 24-hour period the next weekend, 18 people were murdered, the worst day in decades.

Some experts attribute the high numbers of children being killed to collateral damage from gunmen leaving their fingers on the triggers of automatic weapons that they have never been trained to shoot.

For example, Amaria Jones, 13, was showing her mother a dance step when a bullet tore through a window and a television set before striking the girl in the neck, killing her. The gunman had opened fire from more than a block away, police said.

At a memorial for Sincere Gaston, a giant poster bearing the words “Enough is Enough” showed the bright-eyed toddler grasping a green-topped milk bottle.

His parents, Thomas Gaston, 27, and Miller, complained that police treated them like suspects, even though Gaston has participated in an anti-gang program. He was the intended target of the shooting that killed his son, police said.

Miller said that detectives initially prevented her from seeing her son, demanding that she first divulge information about who might have carried out the killing. “Have some compassion for us, it hurts,” she said.

John Catanzara, the head of the police union, defended the decision, saying that investigators needed to collect as many details as possible while events were fresh.

On the hot, humid day the memorial was held, about 100 people gathered under a white tent erected in an empty lot, releasing a flurry of red and blue balloons in Sincere’s honor. “He lit up the room. Everybody loved him,” his mother said. “I can do nothing without that little boy. I feel lifeless, I am lifeless.”


There are some things in there that I agree with, others that I don’t, but I’m glad media is bringing attention to these tragedies.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2020, 10:53:28 AM »

Offline greg683x

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3454
  • Tommy Points: 539
Let's be real, here - "SERIOUS" Gun Control "WILL" affect EVERYONE in this country....

Ridiculous statement!  People still don't get it!  We ALREADY have literally "thousands" of gun control laws in this country!  They DON'T affect everyone!  Criminals laugh at them!  Wake up!

I don’t think GFs statement is ridiculous.  I’m someone that supports the 2nd amendment and I own a few guns myself, but I can at least agree with GF that this country has gun control work to do.

I will NEVER support a law that deprives me of my right to defend my ‘castle’ and my family.  That being said, I think the rest of the country needs to adopt the strict gun laws that states like MD, Massachusetts, Cali, and New York have.  No carry permits Of any kind for citizens, you need a license for a handgun, and the only time a handgun should leave your house is to go to a gun range.  You have a right to defend your house and your family, but outside of your home, it’s the duty of police and military to fight criminals.

That being said, if the entire country adopted stricter gun laws, or if the whole country banned guns like GF said, it doesn’t matter.  Criminals are still going to have guns.  It won’t solve the problems we’re reading about in these articles Roy posted
I don’t think you need to worry too much about criminals with guns as long as you don’t get in their way too much.
What you should worry about is the nut  jobs that already have guns. And the ones that pass the strict gun control checks to obtain a gun and go crazy years down the line ... those are in the 10s of thousands if not 100 thousand low abiding citizens that fit that description

So those are the people that killed 67 people over the weekend in Chicago?? Tell the kids that got killed in these incidents that they just shouldn’t have bothered the criminals.

If you’re looking for justification for me wanting to protect my house and my family, I can point to plenty of looting videos over the past several weeks that are reason enough for me.

The crazy gun legal gun owners that go nuts Like you mentioned are enough for me As well.

All of the above


Greg

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2020, 11:27:07 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41869
  • Tommy Points: -27135
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Let's be real, here - "SERIOUS" Gun Control "WILL" affect EVERYONE in this country....

Ridiculous statement!  People still don't get it!  We ALREADY have literally "thousands" of gun control laws in this country!  They DON'T affect everyone!  Criminals laugh at them!  Wake up!

I don’t think GFs statement is ridiculous.  I’m someone that supports the 2nd amendment and I own a few guns myself, but I can at least agree with GF that this country has gun control work to do.

I will NEVER support a law that deprives me of my right to defend my ‘castle’ and my family.  That being said, I think the rest of the country needs to adopt the strict gun laws that states like MD, Massachusetts, Cali, and New York have.  No carry permits Of any kind for citizens, you need a license for a handgun, and the only time a handgun should leave your house is to go to a gun range.  You have a right to defend your house and your family, but outside of your home, it’s the duty of police and military to fight criminals.

That being said, if the entire country adopted stricter gun laws, or if the whole country banned guns like GF said, it doesn’t matter.  Criminals are still going to have guns.  It won’t solve the problems we’re reading about in these articles Roy posted
I don’t think you need to worry too much about criminals with guns as long as you don’t get in their way too much.
What you should worry about is the nut  jobs that already have guns. And the ones that pass the strict gun control checks to obtain a gun and go crazy years down the line ... those are in the 10s of thousands if not 100 thousand low abiding citizens that fit that description

That’s the thing.  Gun crime is fairly minimal where I live.  But, I do worry about it, because it’s killing innocent Americans.  Those Americans don’t live next door to me, but they’re still important.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: The Ignored And Forgotten Lives That Still Matter: Urban Crime
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2020, 11:40:15 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42497
  • Tommy Points: 2737
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
The thing that sucks about this thread to me is that it can't exist in a vacuum. Those who would want to distract or diminish the systemic racism and violence against minorities by police officers all over the country often bring up violence done by minorities to other minorities as some kind of "what about that" to shift the conversation. And that sucks, and it's disingenuous and wrong.

But that doesn't mean the violence isn't happening, and it doesn't mean people are any closer to a long-term solution or a short-term solution for it. In Atlanta over the weekend 14 people were shot in the same area Rayshard Brooks was murdered by police. Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms had a lot to say on it. Some pieces:

"It has to stop. You can't blame this on police officers. It's about people who shot a baby in a car. We're doing each other more harm than any officer on this force."

"With the Civil Rights Movement there was a defined common enemy. Now it's the enemy within we're fighting. Police reform is a part of this, but we also have to reform our communities."

I don't know, it's terrible. I hope it's not used as a reason to not move forward with police reform, because I believe the way police interact with these communities is a significant contributor to the violence. But yeah, it is an ignored aspect of our society. Conservatives bring it up because it is a convenient shield to hide behind when they have to talk about things like gun rights or the systemic built in racism of police organizations across America. Democrats don't really talk much about it unless they're talking about gun violence because they don't seem to have the answers either, or if they do, they aren't willing to take the steps to enact them.

Hopefully we'll get there.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner