Poll

Which team did the best?

Hawks - Young-Bogdonavic-Markannen-Collins-Capella (Heurter, Fernando, Dedmon, Hunter, Reddish)
0 (0%)
Celtics - Smart-Brown-Hayward-Tatum-Adebuyo (Noel, Halliburton (9), Iggy, Olynyk, Wanamaker) + 21 Por 1st
7 (18.9%)
Nets - Irving-Temple-Prince-Durant-Gobert (Dinwiddie, Kurucs, Musa, Terry (20), Pinson)
5 (13.5%)
Bulls - Wall-White-Vassel (9)-Wood-Carter (Hayes (5), Hutchinson, Kornet, Gafford, Arcidiacono) plus 21 Den 1st
0 (0%)
Nuggets - Lavine-Harris-Crowder-Grant-Jokic (Morris, Barton, Craig, Porter, Nurkic) minus 21 1st
1 (2.7%)
Warriors - Curry-Thompson-Okoro(3)-Wiggins-Green (Looney, Poole, Paschall, Smailagic, Chriss)
0 (0%)
Rockets - Westbrook-Harden-House-Covington-Tucker (Rivers, Carroll, Green, Williams, Hartenstein)
0 (0%)
Pacers - Brogdon-Oladipo-Warren-Isaac-Sabonis (Holliday, Holliday, Fournier, Giles, McDermott)
2 (5.4%)
Heat - Walker-Robinson-Butler-Ibaka-Theis (Nunn, Herro, Jones Jr., Wagner, Williams)
3 (8.1%)
Bucks - McCullom-Thybulle-Middleton-Bertans-Giannis (Hill, Divencenzo, Korver, Bjelica, R Lopez)
4 (10.8%)
Wolves - Russell-Beasley-Culver-Hermangomez-Towns (Ball (1), Okogie, Evans, Spellman, Johnson)
0 (0%)
Magic - Murray-Beal-Harris-Gordon-Turner (Satoransky, Dunn, Plumlee, Ennis, Hampton (15) minus 22 and 24 1sts
6 (16.2%)
Blazers - Lillard-Hield-Ariza-Little-Vucevic (Trent, Hood, Anthony, Collins, Kanter) minus 21 1st
0 (0%)
Kings - Fox-Brown Jr.-Barnes-Bagley-Whiteside (Illyasova, Kuzma, Caruso,  Achiuwa (12), Holmes)
0 (0%)
Raptors - Lowry-Anunoby-Siakim-Milsap-Gasol (Reed (28), Boucher, VanFleet, Powell, Hollis-Jefferson)
2 (5.4%)
Jazz - Paul-Mitchell-Ingels-Bogdonavic-Allen (Lavert, Korkmaz, Moore, Claxton, Jordan) minus 22 1st
4 (10.8%)
Wizards - Fultz-Ross-Aminu-Hachimura-Bamba (P Williams (17), Anthony (19), Porter Jr., Bryant, Felicio) plus Orl 22 and 24 1st
3 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: July 06, 2020, 09:48:31 AM

Author Topic: 2020 Mock Off-Season Champion: Jvalin's Celtics  (Read 6155 times)

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Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I was happy with the Wizard blow up off-season. They will have a bunch of vets to move at the deadline and have a nice young stable of young talent with Fultz, Cole Anthony, Bamba, P Williams (im really high on), and Hachimura (not very high on).

The biggest asset obtained is the unprotected 2022 from Orlando. This could potentially be the "double draft" aka no more one and done. If the Magic falter and Beal leaves this could be a huge pick.

I also liked the idea of starting the rebuild now figuring this will be a developmental year for the young guys. The 2021 draft could yield a couple franchise corner stone level talents so its a great tank year.

Yeah, you did good. You need one of those young guys to really become an all-star level talent for the rebuild to be worth it.

It's possible the Magic struggle, but I doubt it. All their main guys are signed through 2022, which means they should at least be decent that year. The 2024 pick is a much bigger question mark.

Re: 2020 Mock Off-season Champion Voting (Vote Now)
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2020, 05:24:44 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Here are the depth charts for the Celtics and the Bucks respectively
(playoff minutes in parentheses, not regular season minutes)

PG: Smart (36) - Haliburton (12) - Wanamaker
SG: Brown (36) - Langford (12) - Edwards
SF: Hayward (32) - Iggy (16) - Connaughton
PF: Tatum (36) - G. Williams (12) - Patterson
C: Bam (36) - Olynyk (6*) - Noel (6*)

*they would share backup C minutes depending on matchups

PG: McCollum (36) - Hill (12)
SG: Thybulle (24) - DiVincenzo (24)
SF: Middleton (36) - Thybulle (6) - Korver (6)
PF: Bertans (30) - Bjelica (18)
C: Giannis (36) - BroLo (12)

Both teams are below the tax line. The Bucks are a mere $8,518 below the tax line!

The C's will have enough cap space to go after a max free agent next summer. Btw, Giannis is about to hit free agency next summer (alongside other big names as well).

I may write a few more words later on regarding each move that I made.

I would note that the C's would have max cap room next season only if they let one of Tatum or Bam walk, as their cap holds (and certainly next contracts) would give the C's about 22 million in cap space even if they decline every option, renounce every other free agent (including Hayward and Iggy), and renounce their draft picks.

Offline RodyTur10

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I'm not really going to defend the Sacramento Kings' moves here, but the roster is a bit different than the poll shows.

The Kings kind of went along with some trades (although we've done offers to other teams that just didn't work out) and wanted to get some picks / small assets in exchange for some role players, but I just didn't have enough time on my hands to work that out.

So now the Kings have to waive Javale McGee, Ersan Ilyasova and Quinn Cook to trim their roster back to 15 players.
The good things are that we remained flexibility (max cap space next season, probably 40-50 million if we wanted to), added some young talent in Troy Brown Jr and Kyle Kuzma, have a clear tanking job where there's no pressure on the young guys to live up to unrealistic immediate expectations and the owner saves some money because we probably have one of the cheapest rosters out there.

Sacramento Kings roster

PG: D'Aaron Fox (32), Alex Caruso (16), Cory Joseph (8 )
SG: Troy Brown Jr (28), Glenn Robinson (12), Justin James
SF: Harrison Barnes (28), Kyle Kuzma (20), DJ Wilson
PF: Marvin Bagley (28), #12 Precious Achiuwa (12), Jabari Parker (8 )
C: Hassan Whiteside (24), Richaun Holmes (24), #35 Vernon Carey

two-way-contracts: #42 Devin Dotson and #54 Payton Pritchard
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 05:53:24 PM by RodyTur10 »
Rationalism over beliefs

Offline nickagneta

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Before I vote, I wasn't following but I know several guys were GMing more than one team. Was a person who had multiple teams allowed to make trades between the teams he controlled in any manner? Because if so, I would probably not vote for any of those teams.

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Before I vote, I wasn't following but I know several guys were GMing more than one team. Was a person who had multiple teams allowed to make trades between the teams he controlled in any manner? Because if so, I would probably not vote for any of those teams.

No. Nobody made a trade within their own teams. If someone would have wanted to, I would have functioned as the GM for one of them.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 07:21:33 PM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I'm not really going to defend the Sacramento Kings' moves here, but the roster is a bit different than the poll shows.

The Kings kind of went along with some trades (although we've done offers to other teams that just didn't work out) and wanted to get some picks / small assets in exchange for some role players, but I just didn't have enough time on my hands to work that out.

So now the Kings have to waive Javale McGee, Ersan Ilyasova and Quinn Cook to trim their roster back to 15 players.
The good things are that we remained flexibility (max cap space next season, probably 40-50 million if we wanted to), added some young talent in Troy Brown Jr and Kyle Kuzma, have a clear tanking job where there's no pressure on the young guys to live up to unrealistic immediate expectations and the owner saves some money because we probably have one of the cheapest rosters out there.

Sacramento Kings roster

PG: D'Aaron Fox (32), Alex Caruso (16), Cory Joseph (8 )
SG: Troy Brown Jr (28), Glenn Robinson (12), Justin James
SF: Harrison Barnes (28), Kyle Kuzma (20), DJ Wilson
PF: Marvin Bagley (28), #12 Precious Achiuwa (12), Jabari Parker (8 )
C: Hassan Whiteside (24), Richaun Holmes (24), #35 Vernon Carey

two-way-contracts: #42 Devin Dotson and #54 Payton Pritchard

Updated for you

Online gouki88

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I think the team I’m most pleased with is Utah. I think with Chris Paul there to elevate the play of all those around him we would see genuine championship contention in Utah.

Donovan Mitchell was already an All-Star, but I could see him hitting All-NBA levels with Paul alongside him (see what CP3 did to accelerate SGA’s development for reference). I feel like the shooters we have in Bogdanovic, Ingles, and the newly arrived Korkmaz will be great for the attacking mindset Mitchell has.

I also believe we’ll get all the production Gobert and Tony Bradley gave us (Bradley is back to 3rd string for now) from Jarrett Allen and DeAndre Jordan. We’ve seen what Paul can do with vertical spacing big men before, and we’ll see it again. We also got away from the nightmare that would have come about from Gobert’s contract talks.

I also like the bench additions of Korkmaz and Moore. Korkmaz is a really solid shooting wing, and actually reminds me a lot of Boban Bogdanovic at the same stage of their careers (Bojan was about 5 years older though..). Moore is a really solid 3&D guy who has a bit of playoff experience too.

Overall, I think I’ve turned Utah from a fringe contender / pretender into a legitimate contender for 2020-21.

I also am pretty happy with my Denver team, but I think they’re more of a 2021-22 contention project given I think MPJ will have fully come onto the scene by then as that Rashard Lewis type scoring big wing

Re: 2020 Mock Off-season Champion Voting (Vote Now)
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2020, 07:54:56 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Here are the depth charts for the Celtics and the Bucks respectively
(playoff minutes in parentheses, not regular season minutes)

PG: Smart (36) - Haliburton (12) - Wanamaker
SG: Brown (36) - Langford (12) - Edwards
SF: Hayward (32) - Iggy (16) - Connaughton
PF: Tatum (36) - G. Williams (12) - Patterson
C: Bam (36) - Olynyk (6*) - Noel (6*)

*they would share backup C minutes depending on matchups

PG: McCollum (36) - Hill (12)
SG: Thybulle (24) - DiVincenzo (24)
SF: Middleton (36) - Thybulle (6) - Korver (6)
PF: Bertans (30) - Bjelica (18)
C: Giannis (36) - BroLo (12)

Both teams are below the tax line. The Bucks are a mere $8,518 below the tax line!

The C's will have enough cap space to go after a max free agent next summer. Btw, Giannis is about to hit free agency next summer (alongside other big names as well).

I may write a few more words later on regarding each move that I made.

I would note that the C's would have max cap room next season only if they let one of Tatum or Bam walk, as their cap holds (and certainly next contracts) would give the C's about 22 million in cap space even if they decline every option, renounce every other free agent (including Hayward and Iggy), and renounce their draft picks.
This is correct. We'd have to let Bam walk in order to sign Giannis. Obviously, it would have been worth it!

Payroll in 2021-2022

1. Brown $25,794,643
2. Smart $14,339,285
3. Haliburton $5,030,640
4. Langford $3,804,360
5. G. Williams $2,617,800
6. Edwards $1,782,621
7. Tatum $24,742,800 (cap hold)
8. Adebayo $15,346,476 (cap hold)
9. rookie min $1,028,851
10. rookie min $1,028,851
11. rookie min $1,028,851
12. rookie min $1,028,851
13.
14.
15.
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858

SUM: $98,705,967

If projections hold (which is a huge if), the cap in 2021-2022 will be $125,000,000.

The C's would have $26,294,033 in cap space if the keep both Tatum and Bam.
They'd have $41,640,509 in cap space if they keep Tatum and let Bam walk.

According to current projections, Giannis' max will start at $37,500,000 in year 1.

--------------------------------------

And here would be the payroll of the C's in 2020-2021. They would be sitting comfortably below the tax line, which will be almost impossible in real life (assuming Hayward opts in and cap projections are proven to be overly optimistic).

1. Hayward $34,187,085
2. Brown $23,883,929
3. Iguodala $15,000,000
4. Olynyk $13,598,243
5. Smart $13,446,428
6. Tatum $9,897,120
7. Adebayo $5,115,492
8. Noel $5,000,000
9. Haliburton $4,791,120
10. Langford $3,631,200
11. G. Williams $2,498,760
12. Wanamaker $1,737,274
13. Connaughton $1,737,274  
14. Patterson $1,737,274
15. Edwards $1,517,981
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858

SUM: $138,911,118

Tax line: $142,000,000

Offline Csfan1984

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I like what the Bucks and Heat did. Bucks get an upgrade in talent in better #2 option and still keep Middleton. Id consider that best team in the East still. Heat also get a better #2 option + add improved spacing. Heat would be far more dangerous with that combination but would rely a lot on Walker and Butler.

Magic and C's were tied for third IMO. Magic moved hard for two stars*. If the goal was improving ticket sales, Magic win. Not sold on their team fit but its exciting.
C's added one of the best young bigs in the game right now that doesn't need the ball for impact. And though he is an All star they lost one to get him plus underrated Theis. Heat won that trade in the short term. Long term it probably fits better for the C's window.

Nets and Pacers are interesting but I don't have faith their moves.

Wizards I felt deserve praise if you like a team going for a rebuild.

Offline nickagneta

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I went with Nets, Jazz and Raptors. Not sure I liked many other teams moves.

Re: 2020 Mock Off-season Champion Voting (Vote Now)
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2020, 08:13:37 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Here are the depth charts for the Celtics and the Bucks respectively
(playoff minutes in parentheses, not regular season minutes)

PG: Smart (36) - Haliburton (12) - Wanamaker
SG: Brown (36) - Langford (12) - Edwards
SF: Hayward (32) - Iggy (16) - Connaughton
PF: Tatum (36) - G. Williams (12) - Patterson
C: Bam (36) - Olynyk (6*) - Noel (6*)

*they would share backup C minutes depending on matchups

PG: McCollum (36) - Hill (12)
SG: Thybulle (24) - DiVincenzo (24)
SF: Middleton (36) - Thybulle (6) - Korver (6)
PF: Bertans (30) - Bjelica (18)
C: Giannis (36) - BroLo (12)

Both teams are below the tax line. The Bucks are a mere $8,518 below the tax line!

The C's will have enough cap space to go after a max free agent next summer. Btw, Giannis is about to hit free agency next summer (alongside other big names as well).

I may write a few more words later on regarding each move that I made.

I would note that the C's would have max cap room next season only if they let one of Tatum or Bam walk, as their cap holds (and certainly next contracts) would give the C's about 22 million in cap space even if they decline every option, renounce every other free agent (including Hayward and Iggy), and renounce their draft picks.
This is correct. We'd have to let Bam walk in order to sign Giannis. Obviously, it would have been worth it!

Payroll in 2021-2022

1. Brown $25,794,643
2. Smart $14,339,285
3. Haliburton $5,030,640
4. Langford $3,804,360
5. G. Williams $2,617,800
6. Edwards $1,782,621
7. Tatum $24,742,800 (cap hold)
8. Adebayo $15,346,476 (cap hold)
9. rookie min $1,028,851
10. rookie min $1,028,851
11. rookie min $1,028,851
12. rookie min $1,028,851
13.
14.
15.
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858

SUM: $98,705,967

If projections hold (which is a huge if), the cap in 2021-2022 will be $125,000,000.

The C's would have $26,294,033 in cap space if the keep both Tatum and Bam.
They'd have $41,640,509 in cap space if they keep Tatum and let Bam walk.

According to current projections, Giannis' max will start at $37,500,000 in year 1.

--------------------------------------

And here would be the payroll of the C's in 2020-2021. They would be sitting comfortably below the tax line, which will be almost impossible in real life (assuming Hayward opts in and cap projections are proven to be overly optimistic).

1. Hayward $34,187,085
2. Brown $23,883,929
3. Iguodala $15,000,000
4. Olynyk $13,598,243
5. Smart $13,446,428
6. Tatum $9,897,120
7. Adebayo $5,115,492
8. Noel $5,000,000
9. Haliburton $4,791,120
10. Langford $3,631,200
11. G. Williams $2,498,760
12. Wanamaker $1,737,274
13. Connaughton $1,737,274 
14. Patterson $1,737,274
15. Edwards $1,517,981
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858

SUM: $138,911,118

Tax line: $142,000,000

Tatum’s cap hold will be closer to $30 million in this universe, as his salary will be below the average salary and have a 300% hold, instead of 250%.  (It’s a shade above the current average, but we’re assuming two more years of salary growth with these cap figures used here).  To get a max with Tatum, it would probably require some additional salary dumping beyond letting Bam walk.  Not a huge task, and they’ve been left with more flexibility, but next years fantasy Celtics would have work to do for a max.

Re: 2020 Mock Off-season Champion Voting (Vote Now)
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2020, 08:55:52 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Tatum’s cap hold will be closer to $30 million in this universe, as his salary will be below the average salary and have a 300% hold, instead of 250%.  (It’s a shade above the current average, but we’re assuming two more years of salary growth with these cap figures used here).  To get a max with Tatum, it would probably require some additional salary dumping beyond letting Bam walk.  Not a huge task, and they’ve been left with more flexibility, but next years fantasy Celtics would have work to do for a max.
Fair enough. Still, it would have been possible to create enough cap space in order to go after Giannis.

I should have included the picks too. Obviously, we cannot possibly know the draft order in 2021. Let's just say that the draft order remains the same.

Payroll in 2021-2022

1. Tatum $29,691,360 (cap hold)
2. Brown $25,794,643
3. Adebayo $15,346,476 (cap hold)
4. Smart $14,339,285
5. Haliburton $5,030,640
6. Blazers 2021 first (#14) $3,960,960
7. Langford $3,804,360
8. G. Williams $2,617,800
9. Celtics 2021 first (#26) $2,331,600
10. Edwards $1,782,621
11. rookie min $1,028,851
12. rookie min $1,028,851
13.
14.
15.
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858

SUM: $107,889,385

salary cap: $125,000,000.

The C's would have $17,110,615 in cap space if they keep both Tatum and Bam.
They'd have $32,457,091 in cap space if they keep Tatum and let Bam walk.

According to current projections, Giannis' max will start at $37,500,000 in year 1.

Worst case scenario (highly unlikely), we'd have to draft and stash the Blazers pick and dump G-Will and Edwards for future pick(s) + cap relief. Alternatively, we could trade the Blazers pick for a future pick. Anyway, you get the idea.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 09:56:26 PM by Jvalin »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Magic and C's were tied for third IMO. Magic moved hard for two stars*. If the goal was improving ticket sales, Magic win. Not sold on their team fit but its exciting.

As the Magic GM, I was happy with the moves. I'm thrilled with the fit and think this team has the potential to be special. However, I don't think this team has as high of a ceiling. None of those guys are superduperstars. This is a solid top 4 eastern conference team, when they were a sub-500 fringe playoff team in the East.

I also don't think I completely traded all my assets to do it. i think we maintain good flexibility moving forward to make this happen. It wasn't an all-or-nothing move.

I have at least two guys on long-term contracts that could be traded if things are not panning out. Turner has an excellent contract for a player of his abilities. Beal has several more years. I think I got a good deal for both players, which means I think I could also get comparable value back if I traded them to another team.

I don't think I've lost any value in these trades. Even though I had to trade firsts and prospects, I think I could get a similar package back for both players if we needed to retool and rebuild.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that if Aaron Gordon were playing his natural NBA position, he could be a really good player--not a superduperstar, but a high level contributor on a contending eastern conference team.

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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This is really close. We need more voters!

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Anyone watch the office? Because I would definitely feel like Dwight from the hay king episode if I win  :D ;D