Author Topic: Kareem's Skyhook  (Read 1704 times)

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Kareem's Skyhook
« on: June 14, 2020, 12:17:32 AM »

Offline Somebody

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J Kyle Mann has been releasing videos on breaking down the signature moves of historical greats for a while, and his most recent video is about the skyhook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOapDMHuSg&feature=emb_title

Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2020, 01:11:31 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Is BEAUTIFUL.

That is all.
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Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2020, 04:39:33 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Big men in today's NBA would greatly benefit if they could revive this move. Its unstoppable.

Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2020, 07:19:15 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Big men in today's NBA would greatly benefit if they could revive this move. Its unstoppable.
Imagine Tacko with a reliable, or even semi-reliable skyhook.

Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2020, 04:39:32 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Big men in today's NBA would greatly benefit if they could revive this move. It's unstoppable.
While I agree that the move itself is unstoppable, I don't think that big man would benefit from it due to this simple reason
- the inability to replicate Kareem's accuracy.
Guards would also benefit having MJs fade away, but they can't reach his level of accuracy as well.
They would also like to hit threes like Curry does, again, too bad, they can't replicate the things he does.
The same goes for many other unstoppable moves.

Kareem is Kareem for a reason, as only he could hit that shot at that efficiency level.
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Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2020, 07:33:10 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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todays fans want the ball shot like a machine gun spraying basketballs from beyound the arc.   I don't like shooting contests , after a while even Curry Launching threes fast as he can mucks up the game. .   I want to see ball movement and defense ....something called team sports.       This is what makes Harden so brutal to watch ....turns me off from basketball.  Peoples attention spans are so incredibly short today .   Quality doesn't matter.   The skyhook was awesome, but he did not do it everytime down court ,  maybe 3-5 times a games.  I looked forward to seeing it and i was a Lakers hater.   

Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2020, 09:17:40 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Big men in today's NBA would greatly benefit if they could revive this move. It's unstoppable.
While I agree that the move itself is unstoppable, I don't think that big man would benefit from it due to this simple reason
- the inability to replicate Kareem's accuracy.
Guards would also benefit having MJs fade away, but they can't reach his level of accuracy as well.
They would also like to hit threes like Curry does, again, too bad, they can't replicate the things he does.
The same goes for many other unstoppable moves.

Kareem is Kareem for a reason, as only he could hit that shot at that efficiency level.

Its funny maybe being in my mid 30s I just miss the replication of the sky hook but I don't recall it proliferating around basketball like you would expect. Jordan's fade-away was most notably mimicked by Kobe but just about every NBA player has it in their repertoire to varying degrees of success. While no one can shoot like Curry every middle school boy right now is trying to mimic his game and Trae Young is the first player drafted who obviously modeled his style after Curry.

One of the reasons we may not see the proliferation of the sky hook is physical size required to use it at a high level. The days of guards and wings shooting hook shots are long gone. At the youth levels if you are a player physically dominate enough to be a college big you are likely dominating by simply being bigger and stronger then your opponents. In that case developing a high skill post move never becomes a priority.

As someone who has played a lot of pickup basketball and mens leagues I can safely say the only guy I ever see shooting a hook are 6' 50 year olds. Where as the "Jordon fade away" is a frequent shot and ill advised shot for every chucker.       
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Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2020, 09:21:18 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Big men in today's NBA would greatly benefit if they could revive this move. It's unstoppable.
While I agree that the move itself is unstoppable, I don't think that big man would benefit from it due to this simple reason
- the inability to replicate Kareem's accuracy.
Guards would also benefit having MJs fade away, but they can't reach his level of accuracy as well.
They would also like to hit threes like Curry does, again, too bad, they can't replicate the things he does.
The same goes for many other unstoppable moves.

Kareem is Kareem for a reason, as only he could hit that shot at that efficiency level.

Its funny maybe being in my mid 30s I just miss the replication of the sky hook but I don't recall it proliferating around basketball like you would expect. Jordan's fade-away was most notably mimicked by Kobe but just about every NBA player has it in their repertoire to varying degrees of success. While no one can shoot like Curry every middle school boy right now is trying to mimic his game and Trae Young is the first player drafted who obviously modeled his style after Curry.

One of the reasons we may not see the proliferation of the sky hook is physical size required to use it at a high level. The days of guards and wings shooting hook shots are long gone. At the youth levels if you are a player physically dominate enough to be a college big you are likely dominating by simply being bigger and stronger then your opponents. In that case developing a high skill post move never becomes a priority.

As someone who has played a lot of pickup basketball and mens leagues I can safely say the only guy I ever see shooting a hook are 6' 50 year olds. Where as the "Jordon fade away" is a frequent shot and ill advised shot for every chucker.       
I see what you mean and I agree with your observations.
Game has gone a long way since 70's and 80's.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2020, 09:47:12 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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high level bball aside its amazing to see the generation differences in pick up basketball

40 + year olds: off ball screening, a lot of mid range jump shots, look to post first

30 + year old: pick and role heavy (primarily looking for role man), jump stops, post ups still prevalent but more premature self creation, very rare to see many euro steps or step backs (especially over 35)

under 30: pull ups off of P&R, euro steps, step backs, tends to be worse over all on court movement.   



Some of this is just the physical limitations of getting older but a large part is guys play the game the way they where taught/watched growing up/
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Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2020, 09:51:39 AM »

Offline Androslav

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high level bball aside its amazing to see the generation differences in pick up basketball

40 + year olds: off ball screening, a lot of mid range jump shots, look to post first

30 + year old: pick and role heavy (primarily looking for role man), jump stops, post ups still prevalent but more premature self creation, very rare to see many euro steps or step backs (especially over 35)

under 30: pull ups off of P&R, euro steps, step backs, tends to be worse over all on court movement.   

Some of this is just the physical limitations of getting older but a large part is guys play the game the way they where taught/watched growing up/
You nailed it!
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2020, 10:15:47 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm honestly not sure how well it would work today.  Sure in some situations it could (and we've seen guys like Embiid do it on occasion), but I don't think anyone could do it as much as Kareem with the way the game is played today.  Far more athletic guards, zone defenses, double teams, etc., it just makes it very difficult to consistently use as I think it would get swiped a lot on the way up from help side defenders. 
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Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2020, 11:27:24 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I'm honestly not sure how well it would work today.  Sure in some situations it could (and we've seen guys like Embiid do it on occasion), but I don't think anyone could do it as much as Kareem with the way the game is played today.  Far more athletic guards, zone defenses, double teams, etc., it just makes it very difficult to consistently use as I think it would get swiped a lot on the way up from help side defenders.

One thing worth noting is the anylitics crowd would probable hate if a high usage player started using the sky hook shot. In today's take a 3 or drive in and draw a foul NBA the sky hook doesn't fit.

 
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Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2020, 11:43:18 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I'm honestly not sure how well it would work today.  Sure in some situations it could (and we've seen guys like Embiid do it on occasion), but I don't think anyone could do it as much as Kareem with the way the game is played today.  Far more athletic guards, zone defenses, double teams, etc., it just makes it very difficult to consistently use as I think it would get swiped a lot on the way up from help side defenders.
One thing worth noting is the analytics crowd would probable hate if a high usage player started using the sky hook shot. In today's take a 3 or drive in and draw a foul NBA the sky hook doesn't fit.
Another narrative driven argument against analytics and people are still making snide remarks about how "snark" and "presumptuous" analytically-driven fans are when they're dealing with these on a constant basis :laugh:.

No fan who truly believes in analytics would despise the skyhook if a high usage player somehow became the second coming of Jabbar. The efficiency and resilience of that move is excellent for an analytically-driven offence looking for an offensive centrepiece when combined with good passing.

Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2020, 11:50:53 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I'm honestly not sure how well it would work today.  Sure in some situations it could (and we've seen guys like Embiid do it on occasion), but I don't think anyone could do it as much as Kareem with the way the game is played today.  Far more athletic guards, zone defenses, double teams, etc., it just makes it very difficult to consistently use as I think it would get swiped a lot on the way up from help side defenders.
One thing worth noting is the analytics crowd would probable hate if a high usage player started using the sky hook shot. In today's take a 3 or drive in and draw a foul NBA the sky hook doesn't fit.
Another narrative driven argument against analytics and people are still making snide remarks about how "snark" and "presumptuous" analytically-driven fans are when they're dealing with these on a constant basis :laugh:.

No fan who truly believes in analytics would despise the skyhook if a high usage player somehow became the second coming of Jabbar. The efficiency and resilience of that move is excellent for an analytically-driven offence looking for an offensive centrepiece when combined with good passing.

You do understand that people can discuss this stuff from either side without being pompous pricks about it, right?  It's all about delivery & tone.

Plenty of people have managed to do that on these boards for years. 


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Re: Kareem's Skyhook
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2020, 12:18:03 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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I have wanted Porzingis to add this shot since he came into the league.

As noted, it takes a certain level of athleticism to get this shot off and hit it effectively. I think Porzingis fits that profile, but not every NBA big does.

The other side of the shot is, as noted, that the game has changed, and that using a sky hook would be situational. It was in Kareemís day too. It would require a big with court awareness and passing ability, rather than a put your head down and force the shot kind of player. Not even elite level passing, just recognizing the double teams and passing to an open 3. Do that well enough and you have more one on one opportunity for the sky hook. A pick your poison option.

There are a handful of bigs that could make this work, but a ďZinger SlingerĒ hook shot* would bring some old school big play back to the game.

* the sky hook will always have Kareemís patent on it, even if he didnít invent it.