Author Topic: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated  (Read 48957 times)

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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #300 on: May 30, 2020, 08:00:51 PM »

Offline OnPoint

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Voting bums like this out of office would be a start:

Quote
Hal Marx, the mayor of Petal [Mississippi], a city near Jackson, voiced his opinion on the incident on Twitter on Tuesday, saying he “didn’t see anything unreasonable” and “if you can say you can’t breathe, you’re breathing.”

“Most likely that man died of overdose or heart attack. Video doesn’t show his resistance that got him in that position. Police being crucified”, Mr Marx added.

despite his unfortunate last name, i agree with him.

Before I ask you a question, I want to share with you that I've considered the police officers' perspectives and will continue to be open to their perspectives and open to learning what happened prior to the video. What happened before the "9 minutes" does matter -- but the truth is, right now neither you nor I know what happened before the video, but you (and Marx) are resting your conclusions on what you think or presume Floyd did, rather than on what is actually on the video.  Neither you nor Marx seem to show any concern for the man who died.  Your lack of concern worries me, and I hope it worries you.

My question: Have you considered the possibility that the right thing to have done after a few minutes of restraint, 2 other officers on-board, cuffs on, after desperate pleas, and after apparent blackout, might have been to let up on the knee?

yes, and that could have been the case. i am open to that possibility. i want to reserve my judgement until all the facts are out

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #301 on: May 30, 2020, 08:05:08 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Voting bums like this out of office would be a start:

Quote
Hal Marx, the mayor of Petal [Mississippi], a city near Jackson, voiced his opinion on the incident on Twitter on Tuesday, saying he “didn’t see anything unreasonable” and “if you can say you can’t breathe, you’re breathing.”

“Most likely that man died of overdose or heart attack. Video doesn’t show his resistance that got him in that position. Police being crucified”, Mr Marx added.

despite his unfortunate last name, i agree with him.

What’s reasonable about kneeling on somebody’s neck for 9 minutes, including 3 minutes after they’re unconscious?


in minn, kneeling on a suspect’s neck is allowed under the department’s use-of-force policy for officers who have received training in how to compress a neck without applying direct pressure to the airway. it is considered a “non-deadly force option".

i would like to see what led to the situation. did floyd spit in the face of one of the officers? did he claim to have covid, hiv, or some other contagious virus that officers were concerned about? these are factors that might explain why officers did not transition to medical responders. the autopsy suggests that the knee placement was not a factor, it was the general struggle.

The autopsy doesn’t say that at all; and

A second officer suggested that Chauvin should put Floyd on his side multiple times due to training and experience. Chauvin refused; but

Even if the guy had resisted like crazy (which the various videos do not back up, and which police don’t claim), what justifies kneeling on an unconscious man’s neck for several minutes?

you have found videos from immediately before the takedown? abc news was able to obtain surveillance footage showing what led to the ground, yet they have not released it. police claim he resisted and was intoxicated. i have not found a specified level of resistance described... i literally just laid out some possible explanations.

The police indicated that the resistance was intentionally falling down and not getting up.

Quote
The district attorney’s report cites the account given by police: “Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still.”

Here’s a video that shows him all the way to the car:

https://www.insider.com/surveillance-video-george-floyd-minneapolis-police-arrest-death-2020-5

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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #302 on: May 30, 2020, 08:24:38 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Voting bums like this out of office would be a start:

Quote
Hal Marx, the mayor of Petal [Mississippi], a city near Jackson, voiced his opinion on the incident on Twitter on Tuesday, saying he “didn’t see anything unreasonable” and “if you can say you can’t breathe, you’re breathing.”

“Most likely that man died of overdose or heart attack. Video doesn’t show his resistance that got him in that position. Police being crucified”, Mr Marx added.

despite his unfortunate last name, i agree with him.

Before I ask you a question, I want to share with you that I've considered the police officers' perspectives and will continue to be open to their perspectives and open to learning what happened prior to the video. What happened before the "9 minutes" does matter -- but the truth is, right now neither you nor I know what happened before the video, but you (and Marx) are resting your conclusions on what you think or presume Floyd did, rather than on what is actually on the video.  Neither you nor Marx seem to show any concern for the man who died.  Your lack of concern worries me, and I hope it worries you.

My question: Have you considered the possibility that the right thing to have done after a few minutes of restraint, 2 other officers on-board, cuffs on, after desperate pleas, and after apparent blackout, might have been to let up on the knee?

yes, and that could have been the case. i am open to that possibility. i want to reserve my judgement until all the facts are out

OK but strangely that's not how you started.  You introduced your perspective today as one that showed no concern whatsoever for Floyd, showed only compassion for the officers' unfair loss of reputations, impugned Floyd immediately with presumptions of DUI, angry resistance, and fear of the large black man.  You didn't (at any point that I saw) speak to the possibility that Floyd could have been wronged -- even when the only evidence we have (an actual video) seems at least pretty clear that Floyd could very well have been wronged.  Took you all day to be open to the possibility that the police may have unnecessarily caused this man's death.  You could have started with "doesn't look good, and its' awful the man died, but there may be more to the story". 

If you'd start by not being so dang provocative maybe you'd have a real conversation here with people who obviously see things differently from you.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #303 on: May 30, 2020, 08:32:06 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Keith Ellison, Minnesota AG, is making things worse.  This is the top law enforcement official in the state, and he’s directing protestors to target Minnesota police.

Quote
Minnesota attorney general Keith Ellison (D.) told Minneapolis residents protesting the death of George Floyd to direct their ire at local police, rather than the National Guard that has been called into the city to help restore order…

“I’d like everyone to recognize the fact that the National Guard just a week ago was administering COVID-19 tests to help people,” Ellison said. “The presence you see on the street, don’t react to them the way you might react to the Minneapolis Police Department. It’s not the same group. They have different leadership, different authority, and their job is to try to bring peace and calm back again. Please remember that this is not the group that you associate with unfair conduct.” ...

He went on to quote MLK, saying a riot is how “the unheard get heard.”

This is the same Keith Ellison spreading conspiracy theories and who is a fan of violent anarchists / terrorists AntiFa:



The man should be removed from office and disbarred.

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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #304 on: May 30, 2020, 08:44:07 PM »

Offline MattyIce

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Quote
Karen Piper
@PiperK
·
12h
Whoa. Minnesota governor says white supremacists and drug cartels are involved in destabilization. It's "a pretty sophisticated attempt to cause problems."

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esse Rodriguez
@JesseRodriguez
·
5h
St. Paul, MN Mayor Melvin Carter says every person arrested in his city last night was from out of state.

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Actually turned out to be a cop.

Y’all were right. Texts of someone Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD confirmed it was him.

A cop who began destroyed property first.

Rage out at him.
Quote Tweet

Dylan
@dyllyp
 · May 28
HOLY bleep. The cop who started the vandalizing was outted by people who know him. His name is Jacob Pederson of the St. Paul PD.
Show this thread


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Mayor Carter says they saw mayhem starters throw incendiary devices and then run behind legit protesters and “use them as a human shield.” He says being out after curfew allows yourself to be used.

Quote
Joy Reid
@JoyAnnReid
·
5h
Remarkable info coming out of this presser: Gov. Tim Walls, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey and St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter and now MN attorney general Keith Ellison ALL alleging outside forces, domestic and possibly foreign, have post-Tuesday infiltrated the state, and are

Quote
Joy Reid
@JoyAnnReid
·
5h
Replying to
@JoyAnnReid
in organized fashion setting fire to historic businesses in communities of color, and causing mayhem. Ellison cited the widely circulating video of a white man in a gas mask holding an umbrella who was caught by protestors on video breaking windows.

Quote
oy Reid
@JoyAnnReid
·
5h
He adds that white nationalist groups are posting messages promoting going to Minneapolis to “get our loot on” and cause mayhem. He says they will investigate those using the outrage over the murder of George Floyd as a “cover” for illegal activity

https://twitter.com/alexsalvinews/status/1266829743430569984?s=20

https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/1266879497355309057?s=20

BREAKING: Mayor of St. Paul Minnesota says he was wrong this morning when he said “Every single person” arrested last night in St. Paul was from out of town. He blames inaccurate information given to him during a police briefing.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #305 on: May 30, 2020, 09:13:54 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Looks like Turkey and Iran have wasted no time attempting to stoke the flames here.

https://www.jpost.com/international/iran-and-turkey-seek-to-support-riots-in-the-us-629750

Add that to the obvious Antifa and Neo-Nazi types stoking the flames, along with the almost certain Chinese and Russian interference, and this is a full on boondoggle.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 09:25:19 PM by KGs Knee »

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #306 on: May 30, 2020, 09:26:43 PM »

Offline OnPoint

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It’s really a shame. The senseless loss of life, the loss of careers and reputation, and the license for terrible, opportunistic people, to rob and loot. I feel for the family, the officers trying to help, who failed to recognize their time to transition to first responder mode. Very similar to the Tony Timpa situation from just last year. Tragic

How i started

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #307 on: May 30, 2020, 09:29:26 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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one after the other these failed politicians are outraged against protesters that they claim are hijacking the legitimate protesters and therefore hindering cause against the system. Do these politicians understand that THEY ARE THE SYSTEM?

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #308 on: May 30, 2020, 09:31:04 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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we are increasingly leaving in a police state. There is a segment of the population that sees the police as that thin blue line that protects them from what one poster here refers to as 'the black savages'. This is why the Cooper incident occurred in Central Park. That is why Chauvin was not arrested until nationwide pressure. You see that segment of the population that counts on the police has to assure the police that 'they got their back', so that they can go out and continue to keep those 'savages' at bay.

No one, and I repeat NO ONE is doing anything about this problem. The civil rights leadership is comprised of shake down artist that are doing it for the money. Everything  about America is about money. No one is addressing the deep fundamental problems. No one is addressing the stockpiling of weapons by citizens in the south. What are they buying arms for? Who are they gearing up to fight? No one is addressing that now, but be sure when trouble happens their will be an outcry of surprise, and yet OUTRAGE.
I guess I’m one of those that the police protects as you literally have to go around the police station to get on my street and development so in a way I do feel protected. With that said I think you are exaggerating what is perceived to be societal problems in the USA .
How come the deep societal problems and a system of racism and corporate obedience do not stop millions of people immigrating to this country every year??? Why do people from around the world voluntarily come here to be subject to the above oppression?
Is it possible that you have more freedoms than you realize.. and more resources to become a better version of yourself here as opposed to other countries?
How is it possible that people that speak no English are capable of coming to a new country and are able to provide for themselves and their family and not get in trouble with the law but people that are born here are completely incapable off doing that? It is never the fault of the people themselves but it is the fault of the current system?

Very good questions NKY Fan, People from around the world do not come here voluntarily they come here out of desperation they are mostly either economic or political refugees. They come here because their countries are plagued with endemic corruption and capital flight that is induced and facilitated by American corporations. Our neo-imperialism also invited people to come here. In order for us to become the leading power in the world that we have become we engaged in worldwide campaign to convince the world that America is the best country in the world, this we did as we denied blacks in our own country of basic human rights, set dogs on them, and water hosed them. A lot of the world bought into our campaign and there are stories of immigrants who believed that the streets of America were paved with gold. That is why people come here.

The other question is why do we want them here when we have not taken care of our own? See our relationship with black america is different from our relationship with immigrants. While the immigrant is happy to escape bondage and work their  butts off to achieve the american dream, black Americans believe this is their country, and rightfully so. It is their country they built this country. How dare us put our own citizens behind immigrants.

These issues are deep and complicated, and the continual comparing of immigrants to blacks betrays a lack of understanding of the problem.

Immigrants were not enslaved, immigrants were not denied the right to read and write or attend school for years, immigrants were not subject to Jim Crow, immigrants were not snatched from their families and sold into slavery, immigrants did not have their women raped while they could do nothing about it. Most immigrants come from solid middle class backgrounds in their countries before coming to America.


When efforts were made to correct the injustices of the past, people fought against the efforts and railed against affirmative action. When they could not prevail they sought to dilute the programs by adding white women and immigrants to the beneficiaries.
Ogaju,
You are telling the wrong argument to the wrong person.

I was born in Bulgaria and my grandfathers have been enslaved and grandmothers have been raped for 500 years under the Ottoman Empire .. that’s right 500 years! our slavery ended 142 years ago in 1878. (Btw Armenian genocide was also a thing until 1923)... these historical facts are not convenient to some because how is it possible that white looking people were slaves in the 19th century.
The atrocities that our people suffered for 500 long years were unheard Of and were definitely comparable to what black people went through in the USA.
Also when I talked about American born people unable to provide for themselves I didn’t mean black people. Here in Kentucky most people unable to succeed and unwilling to work are white .

I am not familiar with Bulgarian history. American Slavery is different because of the racial element and the fact that there has never been a true reconciliation. The Slavery in America has been replaced with other forms of human subjugation. It is easy to enforce the subjugation because the slavery here was based on skin color which is a very distinguishing characteristic.  So in America slavery turned into racism and these issues have not been addressed. Rather than address them the two races are involved in a cold war in the constant struggle for the allocation of scarce political and economic resources.
The treatment of Armenians as a sub class of people and their genocide is equally as disgusting and laced with horrific racial subjugation. Armenians, Jews and blacks and Native Americans in America have different histories but are some of the worst treatment of people in world history.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #309 on: May 30, 2020, 09:51:53 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Lori Lightfoot, Chicago's mayor, just now added to the voice of black elected officials who are powerfully condemning the violence. 

I think we are seeing a leadership battle amongst black and brown Americans whose outcome remains to be seen.  I don't believe that most Americans have the stomach for the violence we are seeing.  If the rage doesn't subside we're heading for an even uglier confrontation - one that undoubtedly will fuel an overt racial divide that has been seething forever in this country.  Some might think "bring it on" that it needs to happen.  I'm not sure bringing it on will do anything other than deepen/entrench the divide.  My hope is that cooler heads prevail and protests start to get organized and reliably peaceful.   

It does worry me that there is such sophistication in communication and subterfuge today that it's possible that there are organizations that have (are) activated to fuel the fires (figuratively and literally).  But... I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature and I will not jump to that conclusion unless and until there is substantial evidence.  I can't roll my eyes at Trump's "Deep State" blaming and then turn and jump to similar conclusions without knowledge. 

So for now I am hoping that voices like Lori Lightfoot and Keisha Lance-Bottoms (who gave a riveting speech earlier), and others will rise and be heard by the enraged people of this country before more irreparable damage is done.   Change in America comes from the people - and in this case my hope is that it is from peaceful, determined folks who feel wronged aligning with those in power (or soon in power) who are willing to acknowledge that wrong and that it's time for change in how we address the issue of race and police vetting/training/evaluation in this country.

More than ever we need leadership.  It is terrifying to me that in this moment of great need we have the worst and perhaps the most divisive in our history.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #310 on: May 30, 2020, 09:52:35 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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policing should be about serving all citizens and all community's with equal respect and COMPASSION ....

The town i was raised in , a small one police force of about 37 officers.   The sheriff was caught in prostitution ring ,  illegal whiskey ,  laundered money , drug cartel affiliation, on and on.   Investigations .....led to to ALL but three officers either being fired and or going to jail.  Including the city mgmt head.

When i hear the phrase most police are honest ....thats a load horse manure.   

The exact opposit TODAY i believe  be the case .  People as a whole have less moral values .  A corrupt police force with nobody wanting to stand up for what is right I believe ismall to common place .   

The poor upbringing , low morals runs across public servant lines , the same as it does many of the dishonest mayors , governors , and federal officals .   If the heads of the CIA , FBI and such are corrupt ....who would expect a bunch of low grade , low IQ military bullies to be any different . 

So many public officals are corrupt , everybody has dirt on them ,  so nobody wants to make things right.

It some point the people have to,have their say .  I support these protests.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 09:59:21 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #311 on: May 30, 2020, 10:11:01 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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policing should be about serving all citizens and all community's with equal respect and COMPASSION ....

The town i was raised in , a small one police force of about 37 officers.   The sheriff was caught in prostitution ring ,  illegal whiskey ,  laundered money , drug cartel affiliation, on and on.   Investigations .....led to to ALL but three officers either being fired and or going to jail.  Including the city mgmt head.

When i hear the phrase most police are honest ....thats a load horse manure.   

The exact opposit TODAY i believe  be the case .  People as a whole have less moral values .  A corrupt police force with nobody wanting to stand up for what is right I believe ismall to common place .   

The poor upbringing , low morals runs across public servant lines , the same as it does many of the dishonest mayors , governors , and federal officals .   If the heads of the CIA , FBI and such are corrupt ....who would expect a bunch of low grade , low IQ military bullies to be any different . 

So many public officals are corrupt , everybody has dirt on them ,  so nobody wants to make things right.

It some point the people have to,have their say .  I support these protests.

I am not as ready as NG to give these Mayors a pass. They are the people the protests are against. Therefore, these idea that they want to be indignant and mouthing off to protesters does not sit well with me.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #312 on: May 30, 2020, 10:51:40 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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policing should be about serving all citizens and all community's with equal respect and COMPASSION ....

The town i was raised in , a small one police force of about 37 officers.   The sheriff was caught in prostitution ring ,  illegal whiskey ,  laundered money , drug cartel affiliation, on and on.   Investigations .....led to to ALL but three officers either being fired and or going to jail.  Including the city mgmt head.

When i hear the phrase most police are honest ....thats a load horse manure.   

The exact opposit TODAY i believe  be the case .  People as a whole have less moral values .  A corrupt police force with nobody wanting to stand up for what is right I believe ismall to common place .   

The poor upbringing , low morals runs across public servant lines , the same as it does many of the dishonest mayors , governors , and federal officals .   If the heads of the CIA , FBI and such are corrupt ....who would expect a bunch of low grade , low IQ military bullies to be any different . 

So many public officals are corrupt , everybody has dirt on them ,  so nobody wants to make things right.

It some point the people have to,have their say .  I support these protests.

I am not as ready as NG to give these Mayors a pass. They are the people the protests are against. Therefore, these idea that they want to be indignant and mouthing off to protesters does not sit well with me.

I am of the belief that most protesters are indignant about the violence.  I see/hear lots of angry people - some violent and some not.  Anger is fine, violence isn’t. That’s my opinion for now. And yes, I think these mayors and others can be part of the solution.  Hope I’m right.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #313 on: May 30, 2020, 11:40:36 PM »

Offline liam

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War on the press:

"A reporter for an NBC affiliate station in Louisville, KY was fired upon by police Friday night during a live broadcast covering street protests in that city.

Kaitlin Rust, a journalist at WAVE 3, was live on the air when a man wearing a mask and vest that said “police” began firing at her and a colleague."

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #314 on: May 31, 2020, 12:34:07 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Lootings and fire-setting happening all around DTLA and Beverly Hills. Even The Grove stores have been shattered and broken into. National Guards are being deployed.

This is not a protest for George Floyd anymore.