Author Topic: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated  (Read 84524 times)

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Online Roy H.

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I usually defend police, but how does something like this happen?

Quote
On Tuesday morning, a video surfaced showing a police officer holding his knee on a Black man’s neck right before he died. The incident took place on a sidewalk in Minneapolis, where the man — who has since been identified as George Floyd — was being detained by officers while allegedly resisting arrest. However, multiple pedestrians reported that officers were using excessive force, with several people asking them to stop, in what has now amounted to an FBI investigation of Floyd’s death.

The video shows officers kneeling on the man’s neck, cutting off his oxygen, for at least seven minutes of the ten minutes of video. Floyd can be heard repeatedly saying, “I can’t breathe,” as the officer continues to put physical pressure on him. The same words were used by Eric Garner, who died of police brutality in New York in 2014. Five minutes into the video, the man is lying on the ground, motionless, with the police officer’s knee still on his neck. Onlookers can be heard saying, “Check his pulse.” Seven minutes into the video, an ambulance arrives, and an EMT does a pulse check, although the officer still has the man pinned to the ground.

Darnella Frazier, who witnessed the incident and recorded the video on her phone, says that she began taking a video from the moment Floyd was placed in handcuffs. She then posted it on Facebook for proof.

According to the police, the incident happened after 8 p.m. on Monday, May 25, after someone placed a 911 call to report a man who attempted to forge a check, mentioning that the suspect was in a nearby parking lot and seemingly under the influence.

After being ordered to step away from the vehicle, Floyd reportedly resisted. According to a statement from John Elder, spokesman for the Minneapolis police, “He was ordered to step from the car … after he got out he physically resisted officers … officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and the officers noticed the male was going into medical distress.” The police have claimed that no weapons were used and body cameras were turned on during the incident.



Why wasn’t the suspect placed into a vehicle long before he passed out, let alone died?  There are at least two other officers there.  Why didn’t they intervene?
This case deserves a manslaughter charge and serious jail time.  I don’t care if he resisted.  Maybe the dude was a dirtbag, it doesn’t matter.  He was a suspect in a non-violent crime who was long since defenseless at the time of death.

I know the headlines will be about race, but it’s at least equally about use of force, as well as a mentality of “us against them” and backing other officers no matter what. 

(Full disclosure:  I was once arrested and taken to the ground by several officers for “disorderly conduct”.  My crime?  Telling an officer — calmly, without profanity of physical contact — that he had no right to put his hands on me.  Charges were dropped, but I got several scrapes and bruises because some cop didn’t like me questioning his illegal police tactics.  Most cops are decent.  Some are bullies with a badge who are giving huge amounts of deference by the system.)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 04:40:00 PM by Roy H. »
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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 05:07:55 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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It sucks. Police brutality still clearly exists.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 05:13:39 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Saw the video this morning.

Its so infuriating to watch on some many different levels.  These people are supposed to serve and protect the public.  These cops essentially murdered a guy instead via their excessive force.  Watching that one cop, Thao, acting all tough guy with the crowd rather than stepping in while his partner was slowly killing Floyd is just infuriating.   Zero compassion & concern for the victim as he slowly dies. Seemed more concerned with flexing his power over the crowd. You can certainly feel the helplessness and frustration from the onlookers as this transpired. 

Their ex-cops now & definitely deserve jail. 


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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2020, 05:17:53 PM »

Online blink

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I usually defend police, but how does something like this happen?

Quote
On Tuesday morning, a video surfaced showing a police officer holding his knee on a Black man’s neck right before he died. The incident took place on a sidewalk in Minneapolis, where the man — who has since been identified as George Floyd — was being detained by officers while allegedly resisting arrest. However, multiple pedestrians reported that officers were using excessive force, with several people asking them to stop, in what has now amounted to an FBI investigation of Floyd’s death.

The video shows officers kneeling on the man’s neck, cutting off his oxygen, for at least seven minutes of the ten minutes of video. Floyd can be heard repeatedly saying, “I can’t breathe,” as the officer continues to put physical pressure on him. The same words were used by Eric Garner, who died of police brutality in New York in 2014. Five minutes into the video, the man is lying on the ground, motionless, with the police officer’s knee still on his neck. Onlookers can be heard saying, “Check his pulse.” Seven minutes into the video, an ambulance arrives, and an EMT does a pulse check, although the officer still has the man pinned to the ground.

Darnella Frazier, who witnessed the incident and recorded the video on her phone, says that she began taking a video from the moment Floyd was placed in handcuffs. She then posted it on Facebook for proof.

According to the police, the incident happened after 8 p.m. on Monday, May 25, after someone placed a 911 call to report a man who attempted to forge a check, mentioning that the suspect was in a nearby parking lot and seemingly under the influence.

After being ordered to step away from the vehicle, Floyd reportedly resisted. According to a statement from John Elder, spokesman for the Minneapolis police, “He was ordered to step from the car … after he got out he physically resisted officers … officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and the officers noticed the male was going into medical distress.” The police have claimed that no weapons were used and body cameras were turned on during the incident.



Why wasn’t the suspect placed into a vehicle long before he passed out, let alone died?  There are at least two other officers there.  Why didn’t they intervene?
This case deserves a manslaughter charge and serious jail time.  I don’t care if he resisted.  Maybe the dude was a dirtbag, it doesn’t matter.  He was a suspect in a non-violent crime who was long since defenseless at the time of death.

I know the headlines will be about race, but it’s at least equally about use of force, as well as a mentality of “us against them” and backing other officers no matter what. 

(Full disclosure:  I was once arrested and taken to the ground by several officers for “disorderly conduct”.  My crime?  Telling an officer — calmly, without profanity of physical contact — that he had no right to put his hands on me.  Charges were dropped, but I got several scrapes and bruises because some cop didn’t like me questioning his illegal police tactics.  Most cops are decent.  Some are bullies with a badge who are giving huge amounts of deference by the system.)

good post, TP.  I agree that most cops are decent, but there seems to be a breakdown in training all across the country that has allowed a militant bully attitude to become more and more prevalent pretty much everywhere.  What used to be honorable, 'protect and serve' seems to have gotten lost a bit.  It seems to be getting worse.  Maybe it was always worse, and just new technology, cell phone video, better evidence is exposing it more I dunno.  It just sucks.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2020, 05:43:53 PM »

Offline moiso

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I usually defend police, but how does something like this happen?

Quote
On Tuesday morning, a video surfaced showing a police officer holding his knee on a Black man’s neck right before he died. The incident took place on a sidewalk in Minneapolis, where the man — who has since been identified as George Floyd — was being detained by officers while allegedly resisting arrest. However, multiple pedestrians reported that officers were using excessive force, with several people asking them to stop, in what has now amounted to an FBI investigation of Floyd’s death.

The video shows officers kneeling on the man’s neck, cutting off his oxygen, for at least seven minutes of the ten minutes of video. Floyd can be heard repeatedly saying, “I can’t breathe,” as the officer continues to put physical pressure on him. The same words were used by Eric Garner, who died of police brutality in New York in 2014. Five minutes into the video, the man is lying on the ground, motionless, with the police officer’s knee still on his neck. Onlookers can be heard saying, “Check his pulse.” Seven minutes into the video, an ambulance arrives, and an EMT does a pulse check, although the officer still has the man pinned to the ground.

Darnella Frazier, who witnessed the incident and recorded the video on her phone, says that she began taking a video from the moment Floyd was placed in handcuffs. She then posted it on Facebook for proof.

According to the police, the incident happened after 8 p.m. on Monday, May 25, after someone placed a 911 call to report a man who attempted to forge a check, mentioning that the suspect was in a nearby parking lot and seemingly under the influence.

After being ordered to step away from the vehicle, Floyd reportedly resisted. According to a statement from John Elder, spokesman for the Minneapolis police, “He was ordered to step from the car … after he got out he physically resisted officers … officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and the officers noticed the male was going into medical distress.” The police have claimed that no weapons were used and body cameras were turned on during the incident.



Why wasn’t the suspect placed into a vehicle long before he passed out, let alone died?  There are at least two other officers there.  Why didn’t they intervene?
This case deserves a manslaughter charge and serious jail time.  I don’t care if he resisted.  Maybe the dude was a dirtbag, it doesn’t matter.  He was a suspect in a non-violent crime who was long since defenseless at the time of death.

I know the headlines will be about race, but it’s at least equally about use of force, as well as a mentality of “us against them” and backing other officers no matter what. 

(Full disclosure:  I was once arrested and taken to the ground by several officers for “disorderly conduct”.  My crime?  Telling an officer — calmly, without profanity of physical contact — that he had no right to put his hands on me.  Charges were dropped, but I got several scrapes and bruises because some cop didn’t like me questioning his illegal police tactics.  Most cops are decent.  Some are bullies with a badge who are giving huge amounts of deference by the system.)

good post, TP.  I agree that most cops are decent, but there seems to be a breakdown in training all across the country that has allowed a militant bully attitude to become more and more prevalent pretty much everywhere.  What used to be honorable, 'protect and serve' seems to have gotten lost a bit.  It seems to be getting worse.  Maybe it was always worse, and just new technology, cell phone video, better evidence is exposing it more I dunno.  It just sucks.
I think it's 100% the cell phone footage that brings light to this stuff.  Everyone having the ability to record now is such a great thing in bringing these incidents to light.  The Rodney King footage showed it, but it was very rare to capture it back then.  I had a couple incidents myself many years ago in my college days when we used to go to dance clubs pretty often.  Once I had exited a club at closing time and was waiting near the door for a friend to come out.  A cop yelled at everyone to back up then punched me in the face... another time I was drinking a beer on the walk from my car to a concert.  A spotlight came on me and a cop yelled "freeze."  It freaked me out a little bit and my first reaction was to run away.  So I ran for a few seconds then stopped and went back to the cop.  Within a couple minutes there were a bunch of cops there, they had me face down in handcuffs and were kicking me in the face and other places.  I never resisted or mouthed off or anything.  I used to put earplugs in my ears for loud clubs and concerts and bring tweezers to get them out in case I couldn't get them out with my fingers.  The cops kept saying the tweezers were for drugs of some sort.  Of course nobody had cameras back then, and everyone believes the cops so I never even reported them.  I just thought that was how it was.  I actually bet there is a lot less police violence nowadays since they are aware that they may be recorded.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 06:22:33 PM by moiso »

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2020, 07:36:00 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I usually defend police, but how does something like this happen?

Quote
On Tuesday morning, a video surfaced showing a police officer holding his knee on a Black man’s neck right before he died. The incident took place on a sidewalk in Minneapolis, where the man — who has since been identified as George Floyd — was being detained by officers while allegedly resisting arrest. However, multiple pedestrians reported that officers were using excessive force, with several people asking them to stop, in what has now amounted to an FBI investigation of Floyd’s death.

The video shows officers kneeling on the man’s neck, cutting off his oxygen, for at least seven minutes of the ten minutes of video. Floyd can be heard repeatedly saying, “I can’t breathe,” as the officer continues to put physical pressure on him. The same words were used by Eric Garner, who died of police brutality in New York in 2014. Five minutes into the video, the man is lying on the ground, motionless, with the police officer’s knee still on his neck. Onlookers can be heard saying, “Check his pulse.” Seven minutes into the video, an ambulance arrives, and an EMT does a pulse check, although the officer still has the man pinned to the ground.

Darnella Frazier, who witnessed the incident and recorded the video on her phone, says that she began taking a video from the moment Floyd was placed in handcuffs. She then posted it on Facebook for proof.

According to the police, the incident happened after 8 p.m. on Monday, May 25, after someone placed a 911 call to report a man who attempted to forge a check, mentioning that the suspect was in a nearby parking lot and seemingly under the influence.

After being ordered to step away from the vehicle, Floyd reportedly resisted. According to a statement from John Elder, spokesman for the Minneapolis police, “He was ordered to step from the car … after he got out he physically resisted officers … officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and the officers noticed the male was going into medical distress.” The police have claimed that no weapons were used and body cameras were turned on during the incident.



Why wasn’t the suspect placed into a vehicle long before he passed out, let alone died?  There are at least two other officers there.  Why didn’t they intervene?
This case deserves a manslaughter charge and serious jail time.  I don’t care if he resisted.  Maybe the dude was a dirtbag, it doesn’t matter.  He was a suspect in a non-violent crime who was long since defenseless at the time of death.

I know the headlines will be about race, but it’s at least equally about use of force, as well as a mentality of “us against them” and backing other officers no matter what. 

(Full disclosure:  I was once arrested and taken to the ground by several officers for “disorderly conduct”.  My crime?  Telling an officer — calmly, without profanity of physical contact — that he had no right to put his hands on me.  Charges were dropped, but I got several scrapes and bruises because some cop didn’t like me questioning his illegal police tactics.  Most cops are decent.  Some are bullies with a badge who are giving huge amounts of deference by the system.)

good post, TP.  I agree that most cops are decent, but there seems to be a breakdown in training all across the country that has allowed a militant bully attitude to become more and more prevalent pretty much everywhere.  What used to be honorable, 'protect and serve' seems to have gotten lost a bit.  It seems to be getting worse.  Maybe it was always worse, and just new technology, cell phone video, better evidence is exposing it more I dunno.  It just sucks.
I find that somewhat hard to agree with.
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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2020, 07:49:30 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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You are right, it can’t be tolerated.
But what are we going to do about it?

Serious justice system reform to end the criminalization of skin tone and poverty?

Reducing guns on the streets so police don’t feel like any encounter with the public could end up getting them shot?

Significant investment in education and anti poverty programs to reduce economic disparity?

Since these kind of initiatives are roundly dismissed as radical/socialist/liberal by the people in charge (and their faithful media arm) I suspect not much will happen.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2020, 08:06:27 PM »

Online Roy H.

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You are right, it can’t be tolerated.
But what are we going to do about it?

Serious justice system reform to end the criminalization of skin tone and poverty?

Reducing guns on the streets so police don’t feel like any encounter with the public could end up getting them shot?

Significant investment in education and anti poverty programs to reduce economic disparity?

Since these kind of initiatives are roundly dismissed as radical/socialist/liberal by the people in charge (and their faithful media arm) I suspect not much will happen.

Turning this into talking points to meet an agenda just lets reasonable people dismiss this as another trumped up issue to feed liberal outrage.

Each case is fact specific.  Here, an officer kneeled on the neck of a dying (and then dead) man for several minutes while his partner flexed for the crowd.  That’s got nothing to do with your agenda, though.
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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2020, 08:07:35 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I have three family members who are police officers now in NH, MA, and NY. All of them say to not trust any officer because there aren't many good ones. The job changes most of them and some are poorly trained and don't know the law. Officers are human and have faults like the rest of us. They often bring problems at home to the job as well. They feel justified to abuse or batter people after any infraction or belief of one. You have to be careful especially if you are of color because of the bias and systems in place to bury you (figuratively and literally). The officers look to punish far more than they should. They forget they are in service of the people and people's rights are equal to the law they seek to enforce.

Stay safe people

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2020, 08:08:41 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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You are right, it can’t be tolerated.
But what are we going to do about it?

Serious justice system reform to end the criminalization of skin tone and poverty?

Reducing guns on the streets so police don’t feel like any encounter with the public could end up getting them shot?

Significant investment in education and anti poverty programs to reduce economic disparity?

Since these kind of initiatives are roundly dismissed as radical/socialist/liberal by the people in charge (and their faithful media arm) I suspect not much will happen.

Turning this into talking points to meet an agenda just lets reasonable people dismiss this as another trumped up issue to feed liberal outrage.

Each case is fact specific.  Here, an officer kneeled on the neck of a dying (and then dead) man for several minutes while his partner flexed for the crowd.  That’s got nothing to do with your agenda, though.
We have an absolute incapacity to address these issues.
That is not going to change unless we name what is preventing us from fixing this.

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2020, 08:33:26 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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You are right, it can’t be tolerated.
But what are we going to do about it?

Serious justice system reform to end the criminalization of skin tone and poverty?

Reducing guns on the streets so police don’t feel like any encounter with the public could end up getting them shot?

Significant investment in education and anti poverty programs to reduce economic disparity?

Since these kind of initiatives are roundly dismissed as radical/socialist/liberal by the people in charge (and their faithful media arm) I suspect not much will happen.

Turning this into talking points to meet an agenda just lets reasonable people dismiss this as another trumped up issue to feed liberal outrage.

Each case is fact specific.  Here, an officer kneeled on the neck of a dying (and then dead) man for several minutes while his partner flexed for the crowd.  That’s got nothing to do with your agenda, though.
We have an absolute incapacity to address these issues.
That is not going to change unless we name what is preventing us from fixing this.

It's become apparent to me that most humans seem to have an authority complex and when given even the smallest amount of power abuse it.  People love to be in control of others.


Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2020, 08:41:51 PM »

Online Roy H.

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You are right, it can’t be tolerated.
But what are we going to do about it?

Serious justice system reform to end the criminalization of skin tone and poverty?

Reducing guns on the streets so police don’t feel like any encounter with the public could end up getting them shot?

Significant investment in education and anti poverty programs to reduce economic disparity?

Since these kind of initiatives are roundly dismissed as radical/socialist/liberal by the people in charge (and their faithful media arm) I suspect not much will happen.

Turning this into talking points to meet an agenda just lets reasonable people dismiss this as another trumped up issue to feed liberal outrage.

Each case is fact specific.  Here, an officer kneeled on the neck of a dying (and then dead) man for several minutes while his partner flexed for the crowd.  That’s got nothing to do with your agenda, though.
We have an absolute incapacity to address these issues.
That is not going to change unless we name what is preventing us from fixing this.

Those things have nothing to do with this.

There’s no indication that this was a gun crime or that officers were scared about guns.  The victim wasn’t targeted because he was black, but rather because he in all likelihood was a criminal.  Billions and billions have been invested into the educational system.

And, using these red herrings just leads others to come back with their own talking points.

It’s why Black Lives Matter is unsuccessful in gaining mainstream acceptance.  For every Eric Garner, protestors equally support a thug like Michael Brown.

Just focus on the incident.  It’s okay to pick and choose, giving both police and suspect a fair look.  Here, even assuming the worst, a resisting criminal was appropriately placed in handcuffs, and then was essentially killed through indifference to human life as an officer kneeled on the neck of a passed out, handcuffed man for several minutes.

The cops failed.  The managers who promoted kneeling on somebody’s neck failed.  The chiefs who don’t hold their men accountable and who tolerate the thin blue line failed.  Focus on individuals, and come down hard on officers who cross the line hard EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Arguing that skin tone is criminalized is not only inaccurate, but it’s counterproductive.  The vast, vast majority of criminals are incarcerated because they are in fact guilty.  Making the majority of criminals into victims will never win public sympathy. 
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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2020, 08:43:44 PM »

Online Roy H.

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You are right, it can’t be tolerated.
But what are we going to do about it?

Serious justice system reform to end the criminalization of skin tone and poverty?

Reducing guns on the streets so police don’t feel like any encounter with the public could end up getting them shot?

Significant investment in education and anti poverty programs to reduce economic disparity?

Since these kind of initiatives are roundly dismissed as radical/socialist/liberal by the people in charge (and their faithful media arm) I suspect not much will happen.

Turning this into talking points to meet an agenda just lets reasonable people dismiss this as another trumped up issue to feed liberal outrage.

Each case is fact specific.  Here, an officer kneeled on the neck of a dying (and then dead) man for several minutes while his partner flexed for the crowd.  That’s got nothing to do with your agenda, though.
We have an absolute incapacity to address these issues.
That is not going to change unless we name what is preventing us from fixing this.

It's become apparent to me that most humans seem to have an authority complex and when given even the smallest amount of power abuse it.  People love to be in control of others.



That part is pretty true overall.  Look up the Stanford prison guard experiment if you’re not familiar.
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Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2020, 08:48:22 PM »

Online blink

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I usually defend police, but how does something like this happen?

Quote
On Tuesday morning, a video surfaced showing a police officer holding his knee on a Black man’s neck right before he died. The incident took place on a sidewalk in Minneapolis, where the man — who has since been identified as George Floyd — was being detained by officers while allegedly resisting arrest. However, multiple pedestrians reported that officers were using excessive force, with several people asking them to stop, in what has now amounted to an FBI investigation of Floyd’s death.

The video shows officers kneeling on the man’s neck, cutting off his oxygen, for at least seven minutes of the ten minutes of video. Floyd can be heard repeatedly saying, “I can’t breathe,” as the officer continues to put physical pressure on him. The same words were used by Eric Garner, who died of police brutality in New York in 2014. Five minutes into the video, the man is lying on the ground, motionless, with the police officer’s knee still on his neck. Onlookers can be heard saying, “Check his pulse.” Seven minutes into the video, an ambulance arrives, and an EMT does a pulse check, although the officer still has the man pinned to the ground.

Darnella Frazier, who witnessed the incident and recorded the video on her phone, says that she began taking a video from the moment Floyd was placed in handcuffs. She then posted it on Facebook for proof.

According to the police, the incident happened after 8 p.m. on Monday, May 25, after someone placed a 911 call to report a man who attempted to forge a check, mentioning that the suspect was in a nearby parking lot and seemingly under the influence.

After being ordered to step away from the vehicle, Floyd reportedly resisted. According to a statement from John Elder, spokesman for the Minneapolis police, “He was ordered to step from the car … after he got out he physically resisted officers … officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and the officers noticed the male was going into medical distress.” The police have claimed that no weapons were used and body cameras were turned on during the incident.



Why wasn’t the suspect placed into a vehicle long before he passed out, let alone died?  There are at least two other officers there.  Why didn’t they intervene?
This case deserves a manslaughter charge and serious jail time.  I don’t care if he resisted.  Maybe the dude was a dirtbag, it doesn’t matter.  He was a suspect in a non-violent crime who was long since defenseless at the time of death.

I know the headlines will be about race, but it’s at least equally about use of force, as well as a mentality of “us against them” and backing other officers no matter what. 

(Full disclosure:  I was once arrested and taken to the ground by several officers for “disorderly conduct”.  My crime?  Telling an officer — calmly, without profanity of physical contact — that he had no right to put his hands on me.  Charges were dropped, but I got several scrapes and bruises because some cop didn’t like me questioning his illegal police tactics.  Most cops are decent.  Some are bullies with a badge who are giving huge amounts of deference by the system.)

good post, TP.  I agree that most cops are decent, but there seems to be a breakdown in training all across the country that has allowed a militant bully attitude to become more and more prevalent pretty much everywhere.  What used to be honorable, 'protect and serve' seems to have gotten lost a bit.  It seems to be getting worse.  Maybe it was always worse, and just new technology, cell phone video, better evidence is exposing it more I dunno.  It just sucks.
I find that somewhat hard to agree with.

Out of 100 cops you would say that over 50 would be in effect corrupt, break the law, get away with police abuse, lie about something to bring someone in? 

I guess I don't have enough personal experience with enough cops to go that far.  But I wouldn't be surprised if people felt that way.  I have had both good and bad experiences with cops.  Some of my worst experiences have been in small town Iowa where I grew up.  Since I have lived in California, I think I have only been pulled over once, and it was a traffic violation, and I was in the wrong.  But the news in southern cal is full of cops not acting correctly, using way too much force, and little if any de-escalation skills and methods.

I almost wrote in the following sentence "but the hard thing is to know what 'most' is and is that good enough?"
but I got a bit lazy.  I am not trying to excuse the bad cops.  I guess I just want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt at first.
It is a really hard job.  They are people, and they have a lot of problems just like all of us.

is it ok just to have say 60% of cops be decent.  Obviously not.  There needs to be a lot more training for cops that deals with de-escalating conflict and probably needs to be a lot more personality trait screening.  Won't catch all of the bad ones, but maybe it will save some innocent people.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 08:55:54 PM by blink »

Re: The latest homicide at the hands of police can’t be tolerated
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2020, 08:59:15 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I usually defend police, but how does something like this happen?

Quote
On Tuesday morning, a video surfaced showing a police officer holding his knee on a Black man’s neck right before he died. The incident took place on a sidewalk in Minneapolis, where the man — who has since been identified as George Floyd — was being detained by officers while allegedly resisting arrest. However, multiple pedestrians reported that officers were using excessive force, with several people asking them to stop, in what has now amounted to an FBI investigation of Floyd’s death.

The video shows officers kneeling on the man’s neck, cutting off his oxygen, for at least seven minutes of the ten minutes of video. Floyd can be heard repeatedly saying, “I can’t breathe,” as the officer continues to put physical pressure on him. The same words were used by Eric Garner, who died of police brutality in New York in 2014. Five minutes into the video, the man is lying on the ground, motionless, with the police officer’s knee still on his neck. Onlookers can be heard saying, “Check his pulse.” Seven minutes into the video, an ambulance arrives, and an EMT does a pulse check, although the officer still has the man pinned to the ground.

Darnella Frazier, who witnessed the incident and recorded the video on her phone, says that she began taking a video from the moment Floyd was placed in handcuffs. She then posted it on Facebook for proof.

According to the police, the incident happened after 8 p.m. on Monday, May 25, after someone placed a 911 call to report a man who attempted to forge a check, mentioning that the suspect was in a nearby parking lot and seemingly under the influence.

After being ordered to step away from the vehicle, Floyd reportedly resisted. According to a statement from John Elder, spokesman for the Minneapolis police, “He was ordered to step from the car … after he got out he physically resisted officers … officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and the officers noticed the male was going into medical distress.” The police have claimed that no weapons were used and body cameras were turned on during the incident.



Why wasn’t the suspect placed into a vehicle long before he passed out, let alone died?  There are at least two other officers there.  Why didn’t they intervene?
This case deserves a manslaughter charge and serious jail time.  I don’t care if he resisted.  Maybe the dude was a dirtbag, it doesn’t matter.  He was a suspect in a non-violent crime who was long since defenseless at the time of death.

I know the headlines will be about race, but it’s at least equally about use of force, as well as a mentality of “us against them” and backing other officers no matter what. 

(Full disclosure:  I was once arrested and taken to the ground by several officers for “disorderly conduct”.  My crime?  Telling an officer — calmly, without profanity of physical contact — that he had no right to put his hands on me.  Charges were dropped, but I got several scrapes and bruises because some cop didn’t like me questioning his illegal police tactics.  Most cops are decent.  Some are bullies with a badge who are giving huge amounts of deference by the system.)

good post, TP.  I agree that most cops are decent, but there seems to be a breakdown in training all across the country that has allowed a militant bully attitude to become more and more prevalent pretty much everywhere.  What used to be honorable, 'protect and serve' seems to have gotten lost a bit.  It seems to be getting worse.  Maybe it was always worse, and just new technology, cell phone video, better evidence is exposing it more I dunno.  It just sucks.
I find that somewhat hard to agree with.

I almost wrote in the following sentence "but the hard thing is to know what 'most' is and is that good enough?"
but I got a bit lazy.  I am not trying to excuse the bad cops.  I guess I just want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt at first.
It is a really hard job.  They are people, and they have a lot of problems just like all of us.

is it ok just to have say 60% of cops be decent.  Obviously not.  There needs to be a lot more training for cops that deals with de-escalating conflict and probably needs to be a lot more personality trait screening.  Won't catch all of the bad ones, but maybe it will save some innocent people.

Yes, I agree.  I stand by what I said, most cops are good people trying to do a good job.  But, a certain percentage are lazy, a certain percentage are crooked, too large of a percentage are violent, etc.  Even some of the decent ones can be arrogant or close minded.

I’m friends with a lot of cops, probation officers and correctional officers. They all know who the problems are, but even the best ones won’t break rank publicly. 
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.