Author Topic: Coronavirus Concerns  (Read 214201 times)

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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4635 on: June 30, 2020, 09:10:55 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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As the coronavirus pandemic continues to ravage large swaths of the U.S., leading Republicans and even some right-wing television personalities have now come out in favor of wearing masks to prevent the spread of the virus. The move signals what could be a broader shift in what has become a partisan issue, much to the dismay of public health officials.

“We must have no stigma — none — about wearing masks when we leave our homes and come near other people,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said on Monday.


McConnell explained that wearing a face mask is less an act of self-preservation than one of altruism, since the primary function of a face mask, respirator or cloth covering is to keep the wearer from spreading his or her own viral particles to others. “Wearing simple face coverings is not about protecting ourselves. It is about protecting everyone we encounter,” McConnell said.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy also came out in favor of face coverings. “They should wear a mask,” he said, though most Republicans in his chamber have pointedly refused to do so, in contravention of a guidance from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. That guidance, in turn, was based on the advice of the attending physician of the U.S. Capitol.

It’s about time.  Most Republicans — even Trumpists — wear a mask anyway, but this shouldn’t be a partisan issue. 

Does Trump not realize that universal mask wearing is the best hope of improving the economy and saving lives?

he is mighty hard headed

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4636 on: June 30, 2020, 10:08:11 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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As the coronavirus pandemic continues to ravage large swaths of the U.S., leading Republicans and even some right-wing television personalities have now come out in favor of wearing masks to prevent the spread of the virus. The move signals what could be a broader shift in what has become a partisan issue, much to the dismay of public health officials.

“We must have no stigma — none — about wearing masks when we leave our homes and come near other people,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said on Monday.


McConnell explained that wearing a face mask is less an act of self-preservation than one of altruism, since the primary function of a face mask, respirator or cloth covering is to keep the wearer from spreading his or her own viral particles to others. “Wearing simple face coverings is not about protecting ourselves. It is about protecting everyone we encounter,” McConnell said.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy also came out in favor of face coverings. “They should wear a mask,” he said, though most Republicans in his chamber have pointedly refused to do so, in contravention of a guidance from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. That guidance, in turn, was based on the advice of the attending physician of the U.S. Capitol.

It’s about time.  Most Republicans — even Trumpists — wear a mask anyway, but this shouldn’t be a partisan issue. 

Does Trump not realize that universal mask wearing is the best hope of improving the economy and saving lives?

But wait! Trump suggested people to slow it down on the testing so the numbers don't keep rising!

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4637 on: June 30, 2020, 10:15:59 PM »

Online Hoopvortex

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I remember a debate during the lockdowns in the US that the lockdowns don't help much and were killing our economy. Scientists and many politicians in the meantime were telling us that the only way to fix the economy was to follow strict regulations to get the virus in check.

Fast-forward to today, and from the success that places like NY, MA, most of Europe, etc. have had with cases m with citizens in these places more confident to go to businesses and in case of europe, for tourists to go there this summer, compared to the US , especially places like Texas, Florida, most of the south, who believed that the virus was a blue states problem, are screwed. We now have more than enough data to know that lockdowns and strict precautions were the way to go BOTH for the health of citizens and the health of the economy. Trump and everyone who supported quick re-openings and a total lack of regard to the virus made a bet that the virus would just fade away this summer, and lost big time.

Now, the US is exponentially worse off than any other country in the world in terms of coronavirus cases, with no end in sight. This is a complete failure and we are set for a very ugly July and August.

This is a pretty fair assessment, I think, including the prediction for July and August. The virus is now out of control in multiple places with woefully inadequate preparation; Arizona is the worst, but there's a long list.

Lockdowns work when you are getting flooded with virus. They're an emergency measure when you get so far behind that it's all you've got.

We missed our chance to nip the epidemic in the bud - numerous countries did in fact do that. If we hadn't been asleep at the switch we could have done it, too. We were forced instead to stay at home, in fact to pay people to stay home and close businesses, etc.

The lockdowns were effective in 'bending the curve', but our second big failure was in not preparing to open up again while the lockdowns were going on. Most states that 'opened up' didn't meet the minimum Federal guidelines for doing it, with the predictable consequences that we're now seeing.

You can get it under control, as many countries now have, with good old-fashioned tracing and isolating; but if a state has over 5% test positivity you're going to keep getting behind. That applies to 24 states right now.

These nine states now have a bona fide emergency on their hands and have no business to continue their 'opening up' policies:

Alabama 13.2%
Arizona 22.9%
Florida 16.1%
Georgia 13.3%
Idaho 11.4%
Nevada 15.4%
South Carolina 13.7%
Texas 14.6%
Utah 10.2%

Many of the governors of those states will find it politically difficult to re-instate lockdowns, even long after it is necessary from a public health perspective; and it looks like it will become necessary for some, if not all of them.

This was so avoidable. The first failure was hugely damaging to our economy; but the second failure could easily be worse. Businesses that could hang on for four months might find eight months insuperable, and there will be cascading effects from decreased consumer spending.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 10:39:40 PM by Hoopvortex »
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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4638 on: June 30, 2020, 10:29:30 PM »

Online Hoopvortex

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As the coronavirus pandemic continues to ravage large swaths of the U.S., leading Republicans and even some right-wing television personalities have now come out in favor of wearing masks to prevent the spread of the virus. The move signals what could be a broader shift in what has become a partisan issue, much to the dismay of public health officials.

“We must have no stigma — none — about wearing masks when we leave our homes and come near other people,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said on Monday.


McConnell explained that wearing a face mask is less an act of self-preservation than one of altruism, since the primary function of a face mask, respirator or cloth covering is to keep the wearer from spreading his or her own viral particles to others. “Wearing simple face coverings is not about protecting ourselves. It is about protecting everyone we encounter,” McConnell said.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy also came out in favor of face coverings. “They should wear a mask,” he said, though most Republicans in his chamber have pointedly refused to do so, in contravention of a guidance from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. That guidance, in turn, was based on the advice of the attending physician of the U.S. Capitol.

It’s about time.  Most Republicans — even Trumpists — wear a mask anyway, but this shouldn’t be a partisan issue. 

Does Trump not realize that universal mask wearing is the best hope of improving the economy and saving lives?

But wait! Trump suggested people to slow it down on the testing so the numbers don't keep rising!

I think that the media kind of missed the boat on his claim. Here's what I think he was saying: "I was criticized for not getting testing going, but look at me now, we're way ahead of the whole world!" - in other words, this is beyond my control because I'm doing what I was criticized for not doing.

And a second thing at the same time: "See, the reason our numbers look so bad compared to other countries is because we are testing so much!" - in other words, it looks worse precisely because I'm doing such a great job.

"The initial response to the outbreak of a pandemic has always been denial. National and local governments have always been late to respond and have distorted facts and manipulated figures to deny the existence of the outbreak.”

Orhan Pamuk

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4639 on: June 30, 2020, 11:17:49 PM »

Offline liam

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This is some very good news and some bad news:

"Live updates: Massachusetts reports zero new covid-related deaths while infections soar in South and West"


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/30/coronavirus-live-updates-us/

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4640 on: June 30, 2020, 11:58:38 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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I remember a debate during the lockdowns in the US that the lockdowns don't help much and were killing our economy. Scientists and many politicians in the meantime were telling us that the only way to fix the economy was to follow strict regulations to get the virus in check.

Fast-forward to today, and from the success that places like NY, MA, most of Europe, etc. have had with cases m with citizens in these places more confident to go to businesses and in case of europe, for tourists to go there this summer, compared to the US , especially places like Texas, Florida, most of the south, who believed that the virus was a blue states problem, are screwed. We now have more than enough data to know that lockdowns and strict precautions were the way to go BOTH for the health of citizens and the health of the economy. Trump and everyone who supported quick re-openings and a total lack of regard to the virus made a bet that the virus would just fade away this summer, and lost big time.

Now, the US is exponentially worse off than any other country in the world in terms of coronavirus cases, with no end in sight. This is a complete failure and we are set for a very ugly July and August.

This is a pretty fair assessment, I think, including the prediction for July and August. The virus is now out of control in multiple places with woefully inadequate preparation; Arizona is the worst, but there's a long list.

Lockdowns work when you are getting flooded with virus. They're an emergency measure when you get so far behind that it's all you've got.

We missed our chance to nip the epidemic in the bud - numerous countries did in fact do that. If we hadn't been asleep at the switch we could have done it, too. We were forced instead to stay at home, in fact to pay people to stay home and close businesses, etc.

The lockdowns were effective in 'bending the curve', but our second big failure was in not preparing to open up again while the lockdowns were going on. Most states that 'opened up' didn't meet the minimum Federal guidelines for doing it, with the predictable consequences that we're now seeing.

You can get it under control, as many countries now have, with good old-fashioned tracing and isolating; but if a state has over 5% test positivity you're going to keep getting behind. That applies to 24 states right now.

These nine states now have a bona fide emergency on their hands and have no business to continue their 'opening up' policies:

Alabama 13.2%
Arizona 22.9%
Florida 16.1%
Georgia 13.3%
Idaho 11.4%
Nevada 15.4%
South Carolina 13.7%
Texas 14.6%
Utah 10.2%

Many of the governors of those states will find it politically difficult to re-instate lockdowns, even long after it is necessary from a public health perspective; and it looks like it will become necessary for some, if not all of them.

This was so avoidable. The first failure was hugely damaging to our economy; but the second failure could easily be worse. Businesses that could hang on for four months might find eight months insuperable, and there will be cascading effects from decreased consumer spending.
What are the odds of Trump eventually blaming the states following federal guidelines? I can see him saying "I had a plan...a guideline...it was a great guideline...I have heard some people say it was the greatest guideline ever given...but the states did not listen...they re-opened to soon...if they had followed my beautiful guidelines the kung flu would be at zero". Of course he and his sycophants with ignore the fact that he pushed states to open despite not meeting federal guidelines.
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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4641 on: July 01, 2020, 12:05:02 AM »

Online Phantom255x

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For the first time in months, ZERO COVID-related deaths reported in Massachusetts. And we only got 73 positive cases out of nearly 5,800 tests. Good stuff!

The New England states and Northeast in general are handling this extremely well currently and seem to have improved a ton from a few months ago. And it’s also notable how most people here are following the social distancing guidelines and wearing masks. Whenever I go out it does seem like 95%+ of people are wearing masks and in stores/cafes it’s actually like 100% and no one makes a fuss about it.

We enter Phase 3 next Monday

But man it’s crazy when you come here or go to other social media sites and see many people in the South and West states not wearing masks, not social distancing and also getting mad about “being forced to wear masks” (smh). Crazy. And really dumb
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 12:11:59 AM by Phantom255x »
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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4642 on: July 01, 2020, 01:09:15 AM »

Offline gouki88

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For the first time in months, ZERO COVID-related deaths reported in Massachusetts. And we only got 73 positive cases out of nearly 5,800 tests. Good stuff!

The New England states and Northeast in general are handling this extremely well currently and seem to have improved a ton from a few months ago. And it’s also notable how most people here are following the social distancing guidelines and wearing masks. Whenever I go out it does seem like 95%+ of people are wearing masks and in stores/cafes it’s actually like 100% and no one makes a fuss about it.

We enter Phase 3 next Monday

But man it’s crazy when you come here or go to other social media sites and see many people in the South and West states not wearing masks, not social distancing and also getting mad about “being forced to wear masks” (smh). Crazy. And really dumb
Yeah, I gotta say, from the perspective of an Australian, what’s going on in some states over there is legitimately mind-boggling. From ignoring medical advice thats inarguably helpful to complaining about their “freedoms”, it’s a crazy place.
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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4643 on: July 01, 2020, 07:21:45 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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For the first time in months, ZERO COVID-related deaths reported in Massachusetts. And we only got 73 positive cases out of nearly 5,800 tests. Good stuff!

The New England states and Northeast in general are handling this extremely well currently and seem to have improved a ton from a few months ago. And it’s also notable how most people here are following the social distancing guidelines and wearing masks. Whenever I go out it does seem like 95%+ of people are wearing masks and in stores/cafes it’s actually like 100% and no one makes a fuss about it.

We enter Phase 3 next Monday

But man it’s crazy when you come here or go to other social media sites and see many people in the South and West states not wearing masks, not social distancing and also getting mad about “being forced to wear masks” (smh). Crazy. And really dumb

It honestly depends on here you are in the state. Most people wear them around me (Middlesex county) and my parents (Essex county), but when I've gone down to Bristol county... yeesh. A lot people working the counters at restaurants aren't even wearing them
I'm bitter.

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4644 on: July 01, 2020, 08:03:44 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I really appreciate HV's analysis of what's going on. I completely agree that a lack in national leadership from the very beginning is what got us into this mess.

I maintain, though, that once things got out of control in the northeast that all other states should NOT have immediately followed suit and instead allowed things to play out - maybe not quite to the extent of NY/MA - but enough so that they weren't actually laying off healthcare workers at hospitals. I've said this before, but if a surge were allowed to occur early on, not only would people probably be taking it more seriously right now, but the economies in these states would also be pushing toward full re-opening rather than essentially starting again from square one. Essentially, by following NY's/MA's lead to shut everything down, they decimated their economies and now have nothing to show for it except a bunch of northeasterners looking down on them. It's really not very fair.

From a very basic perspective, I am still interested to see if the 'spike theory' actually comes into play here (the idea that every region was bound to have a singular spike in cases and that the shutdown only delayed that). With mask exceptions being the norm at bars, restaurants, and gyms - at least where I am in DC - if there is no spike in cases in the northeast, then I feel pretty good about the fact that cases will decline soon enough in the rest of the country and not run rampant again.

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4645 on: July 01, 2020, 08:37:02 AM »

Offline ozgod

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Wearing a mask is like wearing a seatbelt... Technically, you don't need to, but it minimizes risks.

These videos of maskless people flipping their sh*t in stores are really something else.

It's craaazzzyyyy

Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4646 on: July 01, 2020, 08:41:42 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Wearing a mask is like wearing a seatbelt... Technically, you don't need to, but it minimizes risks.

These videos of maskless people flipping their sh*t in stores are really something else.

It's craaazzzyyyy



You definitely feel for the store employees who have to put up with this crap.   Saw a video yesterday of some woman throwing a temper tantrum at a store and tossing all the stuff in the cart all over the place.

My 2.5 year old nephew throws tantrums like that.  A 30-something adult shouldn't be.


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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4647 on: July 01, 2020, 08:48:56 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I remember a debate during the lockdowns in the US that the lockdowns don't help much and were killing our economy. Scientists and many politicians in the meantime were telling us that the only way to fix the economy was to follow strict regulations to get the virus in check.

Fast-forward to today, and from the success that places like NY, MA, most of Europe, etc. have had with cases m with citizens in these places more confident to go to businesses and in case of europe, for tourists to go there this summer, compared to the US , especially places like Texas, Florida, most of the south, who believed that the virus was a blue states problem, are screwed. We now have more than enough data to know that lockdowns and strict precautions were the way to go BOTH for the health of citizens and the health of the economy. Trump and everyone who supported quick re-openings and a total lack of regard to the virus made a bet that the virus would just fade away this summer, and lost big time.

Now, the US is exponentially worse off than any other country in the world in terms of coronavirus cases, with no end in sight. This is a complete failure and we are set for a very ugly July and August.

The problem is there's a significant part of our population that doesn't trust the guidance of governments and scientists/professional bodies , and so does not obey. Half the country doesn't believe there's even a pandemic, because the mortality rate is predominantly older folks and folks who already have co-morbidities. And we have a very strong individual streak in our country, we don't like being told what to do. In a more socialistic society, like those in Europe, Asia and Australia/NZ, people tend to be more willing to sacrifice personal freedoms for the greater good. In our case, we are skeptical when a government or expert tells us that there is a "greater good" to begin with, which coupled with our not being told what to do makes us ripe for pandemics, where the actions of one person can affect many others.

Then to top it all off, we have confusion at various levels of government about how serious the threat is - the guy at the top doesn't think it's a big deal, or he doesn't want to act like it is because it's going to affect his re-election, while throughout the different layers of government, from federal, state to local, there's mixed messaging. One town says wear masks, the one next to it says don't bother. And the media we consume will either exaggerate the threat or minimize it, and everything in between, depending on what their political bent is. It's really a case study for a disaster.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4648 on: July 01, 2020, 08:55:11 AM »

Offline mobilija

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I really appreciate HV's analysis of what's going on. I completely agree that a lack in national leadership from the very beginning is what got us into this mess.

I maintain, though, that once things got out of control in the northeast that all other states should NOT have immediately followed suit and instead allowed things to play out - maybe not quite to the extent of NY/MA - but enough so that they weren't actually laying off healthcare workers at hospitals. I've said this before, but if a surge were allowed to occur early on, not only would people probably be taking it more seriously right now, but the economies in these states would also be pushing toward full re-opening rather than essentially starting again from square one. Essentially, by following NY's/MA's lead to shut everything down, they decimated their economies and now have nothing to show for it except a bunch of northeasterners looking down on them. It's really not very fair.

From a very basic perspective, I am still interested to see if the 'spike theory' actually comes into play here (the idea that every region was bound to have a singular spike in cases and that the shutdown only delayed that). With mask exceptions being the norm at bars, restaurants, and gyms - at least where I am in DC - if there is no spike in cases in the northeast, then I feel pretty good about the fact that cases will decline soon enough in the rest of the country and not run rampant again.

I think California, and the bay area in particular, is blowing that one spike theory out the window. Bay Area had a large initial outbreak, was one of the first to shelter in place, is about halfway thru their re-opening and is now heading towards another shut down.

As long as people don’t use the prevention protocols (masks, hand washing, minimize face touching, social distancing) there will continue to be spikes everywhere.

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #4649 on: July 01, 2020, 09:03:06 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I really appreciate HV's analysis of what's going on. I completely agree that a lack in national leadership from the very beginning is what got us into this mess.

I maintain, though, that once things got out of control in the northeast that all other states should NOT have immediately followed suit and instead allowed things to play out - maybe not quite to the extent of NY/MA - but enough so that they weren't actually laying off healthcare workers at hospitals. I've said this before, but if a surge were allowed to occur early on, not only would people probably be taking it more seriously right now, but the economies in these states would also be pushing toward full re-opening rather than essentially starting again from square one. Essentially, by following NY's/MA's lead to shut everything down, they decimated their economies and now have nothing to show for it except a bunch of northeasterners looking down on them. It's really not very fair.

From a very basic perspective, I am still interested to see if the 'spike theory' actually comes into play here (the idea that every region was bound to have a singular spike in cases and that the shutdown only delayed that). With mask exceptions being the norm at bars, restaurants, and gyms - at least where I am in DC - if there is no spike in cases in the northeast, then I feel pretty good about the fact that cases will decline soon enough in the rest of the country and not run rampant again.

I think California, and the bay area in particular, is blowing that one spike theory out the window. Bay Area had a large initial outbreak, was one of the first to shelter in place, is about halfway thru their re-opening and is now heading towards another shut down.

As long as people don’t use the prevention protocols (masks, hand washing, minimize face touching, social distancing) there will continue to be spikes everywhere.

That's exactly what will happen until a large enough part of the population acquires immunity either through a vaccine or through herd immunity. It's an ongoing thing and all you need is one person to infect multiple others at a spreader event and then you have an outbreak. There's precedence for this as well, in South Korea, where one going going to a nightclub infected 50 others and caused a resurgence, and in Singapore where returning overseas workers brought the infection with them. In their cases, because they had a good testing and tracing regimes they were able to stop those outbreaks from propagating through their population and getting out of control.

As long as people continue to abide by prevention protocols you mentioned, and as long as the government doesn't drop the ball on things like testing and contact tracing, the economy should be able to remain open. If you look at those countries I mentioned above none of them really underwent crippling lockdowns to the extent we did, because they were able to go about it more intelligently with contact tracing and testing. But it all goes out the window if people don't continue to be responsible when it comes to prevention protocols.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D