Danny Ainge excuses and lack of trades(merged threads)

[Jvalin]

Most of the teams doing deals are desperate. Why should the Celtics go to their level? They got two young All Star Wings, an All Star Wing returning to form and an All Star guard plus a group of hard nosed young players. Why make a major move?

Because the team is on the verge of winning a Championship.

If you believe the team is close, then making a move like Miami made has to be done. Miami went out and got at least 1, if not 2, players that will immediately make them better and didn't give up much in the process.  The Sixers, clearly have issues, but they went out and got 2 players that fill a need for them for basically nothing.  The Rockets pushed their cards in and went for it.  Denver picked up additional assets for deep bench players presumably so they could make a more impactful move. 

If you think this team is close then it needs to make moves.  It has to shore up the bench and get depth.  The team could use a few more specialists and someone that can create offense for the bench unit.

On the other hand, if you don't think the team is all that close then sitting back and doing nothing is probably the correct move.

If Danny believes that the team is close, we don't need depth. Depth is important in the regular season, but it means way less in the post season. It's usual for teams to go with an 8-man/9-man rotation in the playoffs. The idea is to use your best players as much as possible.

What we need is to upgrade the C position. Apparently, Danny believes that our #1 priority is adding a shooter off the bench. I mean, sure whatever. It's possible that he won't even crack the rotation come playoff time.

playoff rotation (assuming health, cause if we get unlucky we aren't winning anyway)

Kemba (36 minutes) - Smart (12)
Brown (36) - Smart (12)
Hayward (36) - Smart (12)
Tatum (36) - Grant/Semi (12)
Theis (30) - Kanter (18)

(or something along these lines)

Would it be worth it to reduce Smart's minutes in favour of the new guy? Personally speaking, I don't think it would.

[Fafnir]

How do you upgrade the center position given the tradeable contract situation being what it is?

Most guys in the cheaper range of Kanter/Theis size deals aren't better than them.

[Donoghus]

People always seem to want fireworks. 

[Moranis]

Most of the teams doing deals are desperate. Why should the Celtics go to their level? They got two young All Star Wings, an All Star Wing returning to form and an All Star guard plus a group of hard nosed young players. Why make a major move?

Because the team is on the verge of winning a Championship.

If you believe the team is close, then making a move like Miami made has to be done. Miami went out and got at least 1, if not 2, players that will immediately make them better and didn't give up much in the process.  The Sixers, clearly have issues, but they went out and got 2 players that fill a need for them for basically nothing.  The Rockets pushed their cards in and went for it.  Denver picked up additional assets for deep bench players presumably so they could make a more impactful move. 

If you think this team is close then it needs to make moves.  It has to shore up the bench and get depth.  The team could use a few more specialists and someone that can create offense for the bench unit.

On the other hand, if you don't think the team is all that close then sitting back and doing nothing is probably the correct move.

If Danny believes that the team is close, we don't need depth. Depth is important in the regular season, but it means way less in the post season. It's usual for teams to go with an 8-man/9-man rotation in the playoffs. The idea is to use your best players as much as possible.

What we need is to upgrade the C position. Apparently, Danny believes that our #1 priority is adding a shooter off the bench. I mean, sure whatever. It's possible that he won't even crack the rotation come playoff time.

playoff rotation (assuming health, cause if we get unlucky we aren't winning anyway)

Kemba (36 minutes) - Smart (12)
Brown (36) - Smart (12)
Hayward (36) - Smart (12)
Tatum (36) - Grant/Semi (12)
Theis (30) - Kanter (18)

(or something along these lines)

Would it be worth it to reduce Smart's minutes in favour of the new guy? Personally speaking, I don't think it would.

I disagree about the depth if you think this team is close.  There is no way I want Grant or Semi getting playoff rotational minutes except for very specific situations.  I don't think Theis should be playing 30 mpg either, though Kanter could be ok with more than 18.  I don't think Smart is good enough to be playing PG anymore even in a back-up role.  I also don't want Smart playing SF at all (though you could switch things around so when he is on the floor with Brown, Brown is the SF).  The team needs another credible big man and another credible ball handler.  The ball handler also needs to be an offense creator as Kanter is currently the only bench player that is at least even average in that department. 

If you think this team is close it absolutely needs 2 bench players added to it.  If you don't think the team is all that close, then there is no point in giving up assets to improve the bench, but as I indicated a lot of these players are being moved for basically nothing (and you should always make those moves).

[RockinRyA]

Most of the teams doing deals are desperate. Why should the Celtics go to their level? They got two young All Star Wings, an All Star Wing returning to form and an All Star guard plus a group of hard nosed young players. Why make a major move?

Because the team is on the verge of winning a Championship.

If you believe the team is close, then making a move like Miami made has to be done. Miami went out and got at least 1, if not 2, players that will immediately make them better and didn't give up much in the process.  The Sixers, clearly have issues, but they went out and got 2 players that fill a need for them for basically nothing.  The Rockets pushed their cards in and went for it.  Denver picked up additional assets for deep bench players presumably so they could make a more impactful move. 

If you think this team is close then it needs to make moves.  It has to shore up the bench and get depth.  The team could use a few more specialists and someone that can create offense for the bench unit.

On the other hand, if you don't think the team is all that close then sitting back and doing nothing is probably the correct move.

If Danny believes that the team is close, we don't need depth. Depth is important in the regular season, but it means way less in the post season. It's usual for teams to go with an 8-man/9-man rotation in the playoffs. The idea is to use your best players as much as possible.

What we need is to upgrade the C position. Apparently, Danny believes that our #1 priority is adding a shooter off the bench. I mean, sure whatever. It's possible that he won't even crack the rotation come playoff time.

playoff rotation (assuming health, cause if we get unlucky we aren't winning anyway)

Kemba (36 minutes) - Smart (12)
Brown (36) - Smart (12)
Hayward (36) - Smart (12)
Tatum (36) - Grant/Semi (12)
Theis (30) - Kanter (18)

(or something along these lines)

Would it be worth it to reduce Smart's minutes in favour of the new guy? Personally speaking, I don't think it would.

Foul trouble happens. Injuries or bad games as well. Grant and Semi could also underperform. I see a lot of scenarios where guys like Bjelica etc could be of use. I mean guys like Jerebko and Green got significant playing time in a series while not getting much in others. Matchups are important in the playoffs, as well as shaking things up after losses.

[Fafnir]

People always seem to want fireworks. 

Yup.

[Donoghus]

People always seem to want fireworks. 

Yup.

Imagining if the C's had taken some posters' advice to move Jaylen for a Ibaka a couple of years ago?

[Androslav]

People always seem to want fireworks. 

Yup.

Imagining if the C's had taken some posters' advice to move Jaylen for a Ibaka a couple of years ago?

I think that the argument was that he didn't score 20 ppg in his rookie year when he played 15 mpg.
Good scorers (Shaq, AI, Jordan), especially no. 3 picks score 20 per instantly, nevermind the fact that JB played with a lot of thirsty players.
That clearly showed that Danny is a bad scout and that Brown will never be able to score, which was proven over time...

...to be absolutely wrong.

Danny will trade if there is a good deal for us to make.
If there is not, he won't trade.
So IMO when Danny boy is not trading, he is doing God's work.

[Androslav]

I remember a year ago, literally every other East contender made a move to get better, except the Celtics.

It would have made 0 difference had he made trades

In hindsight that is much truer than the other way around.
And in our particular case...TP.

[Chief]

It is frustrating to see other teams improve and the Cs stay put. Do not like the bench at all come playoff time..esp after Williams, Smart and Kanter. They need a 3 point shooter at the 4. Do not think guys like Semi or Langford provided much offense when it comes time for the playoffs.

I hope Danny isn't overvaluing his picks again for this draft. They are all pretty average in an average draft. Nothing special worth holding onto.

ESPN is predicting the Heat to be the 2nd best team in the East, right now.

[bdm860]

Let's not forget that Toronto make some deadline deals that won them a title.

The amount of times I've heard that this year, you'd think Toronto has now authored the book on the only way to win a championship.


Just because Toronto did something, and won a championship, doesn't mean that's the exact blueprint that needs to be followed every year to win.  And saying that tends to ignores the other 20 moves they made in the 2-3 years leading up to their '19 championship to get there (trade for Kawhi, re-sign Lowry/Ibaka, draft Siakam at 27, get production from nobodies like VanVleet and Powell, etc.).  It wasn't just trading for Gasol that won them the championship, it was the culmination of all their moves.


Many teams have won a championship without making a trade (of significance).  Even excluding heavy favorites (like GS): 2014 Spurs only traded for a guy who played 6 mins in the playoffs despite 4th best record at the deadline.  2011 Mavs didn't make a trade despite having only the 4th best record at the deadline.  2007 Spurs didn't make a trade despite being 3rd in the West.  I want to give more examples, but really most of the time the heavy favorite wins (GS, MIA, LAL, BOS, etc.), even despite other teams making moves.

Just because the '19 Raptors or the '04 Pistons (Sheed) won a championship by trading for a key starter at the deadline, doesn't mean that any team that wants to win a championship needs to do that too.  There are many different paths to a championship.

[Valid]

What people here don't seem to understand is that there is this little thing called matching salaries that has to be done to complete trades. We don't have a whole lot of salary that we can send out, making impactful trades nearly impossible right now.

I think some of you think the NBA is really like 2K with trade override on. It doesn't work that way.

[Valid]

It is frustrating to see other teams improve and the Cs stay put. Do not like the bench at all come playoff time..esp after Williams, Smart and Kanter. They need a 3 point shooter at the 4. Do not think guys like Semi or Langford provided much offense when it comes time for the playoffs.

I hope Danny isn't overvaluing his picks again for this draft. They are all pretty average in an average draft. Nothing special worth holding onto.

It has nothing to do with him overvaluing picks and everything to do with him not having a whole lot of salary he can send out to match incoming salaries in deals. Again, this isn't NBA 2K.

P.S. What Miami did was incredibly dumb and in NO WAY should we EVER go down that route as a team.

[Jvalin]

There is no way I want Grant or Semi getting playoff rotational minutes except for very specific situations.  I don't think Theis should be playing 30 mpg either

Agree to disagree on Semi-Grant. They are bulldogs on D and they can hit an open 3. I'd be perfectly happy with any of them playing about 12 mins per game in the playoffs.

I'm with you on Theis. This is why I'd want us to upgrade the C position.

I don't think Smart is good enough to be playing PG anymore even in a back-up role.

Huh? Smart is a PG. That's his natural position. Only reason we are using him extensively off the ball, is cause we lack a reliable backup SG. CBS trusts Wanamaker more than Green/Langford. In any case, Smart >>> Wanamaker/Green/Langford.

The team needs another (...) credible ball handler.  The ball handler also needs to be an offense creator as Kanter is currently the only bench player that is at least even average in that department.  If you think this team is close it absolutely needs 2 bench players added to it.

Chances are that they won't even crack the rotation come playoff time.

Foul trouble happens. Injuries or bad games as well.

If we lose even one of our core guys, we aren't winning anyway. Luck plays a big role in success. I can't remember when was the last time that a team lost a major piece due to injuries and they still managed to win the championship.

Fouls and fatigue are always potential problems. Again, the goal is to play your best players as much as possible.

Bad games do happen, but that's irrelevant. It happens to everybody. You support your players no matter what.

[Valid]

Let's not forget that Toronto make some deadline deals that won them a title.

The amount of times I've heard that this year, you'd think Toronto has now authored the book on the only way to win a championship.


Just because Toronto did something, and won a championship, doesn't mean that's the exact blueprint that needs to be followed every year to win.  And saying that tends to ignores the other 20 moves they made in the 2-3 years leading up to their '19 championship to get there (trade for Kawhi, re-sign Lowry/Ibaka, draft Siakam at 27, get production from nobodies like VanVleet and Powell, etc.).  It wasn't just trading for Gasol that won them the championship, it was the culmination of all their moves.


Many teams have won a championship without making a trade (of significance).  Even excluding heavy favorites (like GS): 2014 Spurs only traded for a guy who played 6 mins in the playoffs despite 4th best record at the deadline.  2011 Mavs didn't make a trade despite having only the 4th best record at the deadline.  2007 Spurs didn't make a trade despite being 3rd in the West.  I want to give more examples, but really most of the time the heavy favorite wins (GS, MIA, LAL, BOS, etc.), even despite other teams making moves.

Just because the '19 Raptors or the '04 Pistons (Sheed) won a championship by trading for a key starter at the deadline, doesn't mean that any team that wants to win a championship needs to do that too.  There are many different paths to a championship.

Not to mention the fact that Toronto also needed INCREDIBLE luck (injuries to KD, Klay and even Cousins) to win the championship last year.

Using the Raptors' deadline deals last season as a basis for saying that we should go for broke this year is silly.