Author Topic: NFL Playoffs thread  (Read 9068 times)

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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #150 on: February 03, 2020, 12:52:27 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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One takeaway I have from that SB is that if you're a run-heavy team you need to be willing to place trust in your run game even when the game is tight and time is running low in the game.  In that situation, sure it would be nice to pick up a big chunk of yards through the air. 

If you've been a run-reliant team all year, you need to be able to lean on the run even when it feels risky.  Place trust in the identity that your team has had all year.
My takeaway is that you shouldn't be conservative in play calling even if your defense has been awesome. Hurry up and late game situations has a way of melting pass rush down, especially given how many holds they won't flag in those situations.

Even if you're a running team, you should be aggressive in trying to score or keep the ball. Offenses are too good now to rely on any defense stopping them.


I don't disagree with anything you said.  I just think it's unreasonable to expect your game manager / play-action QB to suddenly air it out in the last 8 minutes of a close playoff game. 

You can run the ball without being conservative.  SF got to the SB by having a dynamic, lightning fast running game using multiple RBs, full back, TE etc.  Then when things are tight at the end of the SB suddenly they're asking Jimmy G to operate out of shotgun and try to make plays down field.
I don't really care about whether you run or pass as much as I care for aggressively going for it when you have possessions. Not trying to score with 2 minutes and time outs and not going for it on 4th and 2 are the errors that stick out to me.

Given that KC was playing to stop the run all the play action and throws made good enough sense to me. Just didn't attack aggressively on several occasions and that hurt bad.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #151 on: February 03, 2020, 12:54:54 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

Parcells was doing this in the 80's with the Giants.   Which of course, is where Belichik learned it from.

We did this throughout high school. I think our coach just liked seeing how the game was going, and hoped to grab some momentum coming out at halftime.

It also gives you a chance to hit on the double-score which is huge in terms of momentum. 

Typically, you're gonna have a better feel for the game coming out of the half.   To start the 2nd half on offense is a big plus, IMO.  If you're down, its a great chance to get back in it. If you're up, it gives you a heckuva opportunity to keep your foot on their throat.


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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2020, 12:57:49 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

BC the Pats love to defer, doesn't mean it's the correct move for other teams

at the end of the day in my opinion, you have to know what kind of QB you are working with

Tom Brady is a clutch QB that can thrive under pressure

A QB like Jimmy (as we saw last night) is not that kind of QB.  1st possession + less pressure and start off with the lead  (and starting the 2nd half with a bigger lead than 10)  ... might have helped

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #153 on: February 03, 2020, 01:03:01 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

BC the Pats love to defer, doesn't mean it's the correct move for other teams

at the end of the day in my opinion, you have to know what kind of QB you are working with

Tom Brady is a clutch QB that can thrive under pressure

A QB like Jimmy (as we saw last night) is not that kind of QB.  1st possession + less pressure and start off with the lead  (and starting the 2nd half with a bigger lead than 10)  ... might have helped
You asked for the reasoning. I gave you the reasoning. Maybe it not for every coach, but it's a proven excellent coaching technique/plan.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #154 on: February 03, 2020, 01:04:22 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

BC the Pats love to defer, doesn't mean it's the correct move for other teams

at the end of the day in my opinion, you have to know what kind of QB you are working with

Tom Brady is a clutch QB that can thrive under pressure

A QB like Jimmy (as we saw last night) is not that kind of QB.  1st possession + less pressure and start off with the lead  (and starting the 2nd half with a bigger lead than 10)  ... might have helped
But they stopped KC to start the game and scored to start the second half.  The Niners won that exchange.  They lost the game with poor play calling and execution.
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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #155 on: February 03, 2020, 01:04:53 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

BC the Pats love to defer, doesn't mean it's the correct move for other teams

at the end of the day in my opinion, you have to know what kind of QB you are working with

Tom Brady is a clutch QB that can thrive under pressure

A QB like Jimmy (as we saw last night) is not that kind of QB.  1st possession + less pressure and start off with the lead  (and starting the 2nd half with a bigger lead than 10)  ... might have helped

Teams deferred 92% of the time in the '18 season (I don't have '19 available).  That continued an upward trend since the league revised the rules back in '08.

You're doubling down on something that simply isn't embraced in modern football strategy.


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Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #156 on: February 03, 2020, 01:06:51 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

Parcells was doing this in the 80's with the Giants.   Which of course, is where Belichik learned it from.
That makes sense but it will always be attributed to Belichick because, as I said, it is a coaching technique and it was first mastered by Belichick and the Patriots.

I've got nothing bad to say about Belichick, but this is not something that can be attributed to him. His mentor was doing it long before he was. Parcells also taught all the same tricks to Coughlin, which is part of why Belichik never really could get the best of him when they had equal talent, they learned from the same master.

Re: NFL Playoffs thread
« Reply #157 on: February 03, 2020, 01:17:43 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Shanahan just had a QB with more ice in their veins the 49ers would have accumulated more points in the 4th to seal the deal

It is very hard to stop a special talent like PM in the 4th. And probably the only way to beat that is to keep scoring yourself

Jimmy G choked in the 4th

The one thing I will question Shanahan though is the dumb defer at the coin toss.  What the heck was that?  What team in their right mind would try that

This literally happens all the time in the NFL.   Belichick does it like 95% of the time.

what is the reasoning behind this?

Don't you want to start the game with the lead? (potentially)

I have also never been a fan also of "tiring out" your D core.
The reasoning is that, if you clock manage properly, and most pro coaches do, that it's very easy to make it so teams have an equal number of possessions in a half. If teams have the same amount of possessions in a half, then if you defer you get the ball to end the half and once again to start the half. If you score on those two possessions, you can turn around the momentum of a game or seize control of it or begin the blowout of a game.

As stated, Belichick was really the first to do this and master it. This little score on both sides of the half became, very much, a Patriot "thing" that help them win games and now it is copied throughout football....all because the greatest coach in football history figured out how best to use that technique.

Parcells was doing this in the 80's with the Giants.   Which of course, is where Belichik learned it from.
That makes sense but it will always be attributed to Belichick because, as I said, it is a coaching technique and it was first mastered by Belichick and the Patriots.

I've got nothing bad to say about Belichick, but this is not something that can be attributed to him. His mentor was doing it long before he was. Parcells also taught all the same tricks to Coughlin, which is part of why Belichik never really could get the best of him when they had equal talent, they learned from the same master.
I am not trying to argue here. If Parcells started it great, but because Belichick really made the philosophy famous because of his ridiculous success rate at it, fairly or not, people will associate the deferment to Belichick.

It's much the same with other things. Who threw the first forward pass versus who used it to great success and made it famous? It happens.