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Author Topic: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?  (Read 7354 times)

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Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« on: December 10, 2019, 09:21:55 AM »

Offline otherdave

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Fierce1 said in another thread:  "The problem with Kanter is you sacrifice defense when Kanter's in the game.

If Kanter is forced to switch, he ends up letting the opposing guard score in the paint because he doesn't have a clue how to defend pick and rolls and switches."


Enes is 27 years old and in his 9th NBA season.  I know some players are slow a foot and/or laterally challenged, but still can't some of these basic defensive schemes be taught, drilled, practiced, rehearsed until some of it finally gets absorbed?

Even if you are slow a foot, can't you at least attempt to do the right thing?

I am not trying to pick on Enes, just using him as an example - I could have used any number of defensive challenged players in the league.

Somebody help me here - I have only coached one season of 5th grade b-ball - I am still learning and slow a foot myself.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 09:27:09 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Playing basketball is really hard especially at the NBA level and some guys just don't make the right reads fast enough no matter how hard they practice or work at it.

Same reason you can't teach everyone to shoot, talent is a big part of defense and all of basketball really.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2019, 09:29:22 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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Split second decisions when facing 3-4 fast moving opponents while what you are protecting is behind your back can not be thought that easy... you have to be very quick and athletic to compensate for your “slow” decision making
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 09:30:34 AM »

Offline Fierce1

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Quote from: Fafnir on December 10, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Playing basketball is really hard especially at the NBA level and some guys just don't make the right reads fast enough no matter how hard they practice or work at it.

Same reason you can't teach everyone to shoot, talent is a big part of defense and all of basketball really.

Totally agree!

That's why Marcus Smart is special.

What Smart does on defense can NOT be taught!
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2019, 09:31:24 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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You can't teach lateral quickness. Either you got it or you don't. :(
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2019, 09:33:35 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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So you’re thinking they aren’t working on his weaknesses?  My guess is they are and what you see if the best they can get.  Everyone has limitations to what they can do.  If Jaylen brown decides to work on his jumping he probably couldn’t get much higher.  Same thing with Enis.  This is the best you can get.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 09:38:41 AM by droopdog7 »
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2019, 09:37:21 AM »

Offline Fierce1

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If Kanter is decent on defense, I think he would have made the All-Star team at some point in his career.

Kanter is an absolute beast inside the paint.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2019, 09:51:28 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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He has slow feet, doesn't rotate his hips well and doesn't have good leaping ability. In other words he has physical limitations that are exacerbate by todays style of play.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2019, 10:39:20 AM »

Offline liam

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He looks way better at defense than when he was with The Knicks but as stated above his foot speed is always going to limited him in certain actions.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 10:41:36 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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You know what I've noticed about the way Kanter is trying to be a good pick-and-roll defender? He's doing the same things Jokic does.

He stays in between them and the rim, but he looks for opportunities to use his quick hands to strip or tip the ball. He's not a rim-challenger, and he's not versatile enough to switch, but so far, that has been pretty effective.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 10:57:01 AM »

Offline td450

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Quote from: keevsnick on December 10, 2019, 09:51:28 AM
He has slow feet, doesn't rotate his hips well and doesn't have good leaping ability. In other words he has physical limitations that are exacerbate by todays style of play.

Those things might limit him from becoming a great defender, but he could improve considerably with what he has. He often doesn't have his hands up, and he doesn't track the ball well. He's usually late on his decisions and he consistently stays a step back defensively. There's no reason he can't be mediocre.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 11:02:44 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Kanter's defensive rating is 100.8, which is, by the way, 8.2 points lower than Robert Williams defensive rating. The team also allows exactly 105 points per 48 minutes whether Kanter is on the court or off(Kanter's on/off court offensive #s are 117/110.8) Also, Kanter's top 2 five man groupings by minutes played:

Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Kanter and
Wanamaker, Edwards, Tatum, Ojeleye, Kanter

have excellent defensive numbers. That's also true for the 4th, 5th and 6th most often used Kanter groupings.

What I think this tells us is that:

1. Stevens has already figured out who to put with Kanter when he is on the floor and when in the game to use him, specifically, when he can play with 4 starters or when he is part of a unit playing the other team's bench.

2. This use of Kanter is working and his defesive limitations aren't killing the team.

3. Kanter is probably playing way better overall team defense than some are giving him credit for.

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612738/players-traditional/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=PTS&dir=1

http://www.82games.com/1920/19BOS16.HTM
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 11:13:21 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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I don’t have the advanced stats to back this, but the eye test shows opposing players going right by Kanter if they can get him in space; it’s like he’s not even there. He can be decent when an opposing big tries to shoulder him aside, but that’s about it. He’s also less likely to be exposed when the other team doesn’t have a shooter running the pick and roll (Simmons) but he’s obviously useless containing a skilled shooter/driver (Dinwiddie); not great against quicker bigs either - Brad saw pretty clearly that playing him against the Heat would be disastrous. That other players can sometimes cover for his limitations is not evidence he’s a great defender.

In a perfect world the Cavs won’t find a trade partner and buy out Tristan Thompson, who decides to ring chase with Boston. The upgrade over Kanter would be very very noticeable. I doubt we live in that world but I’ll hope for it until February.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 11:20:09 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Quote from: Fafnir on December 10, 2019, 09:27:09 AM
Playing basketball is really hard especially at the NBA level and some guys just don't make the right reads fast enough no matter how hard they practice or work at it.

Same reason you can't teach everyone to shoot, talent is a big part of defense and all of basketball really.

Bingo.

There's also the effort aspect but Faf nailed the gist of it.
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Re: Why can't Kanter be taught/learn defense?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2019, 11:40:50 AM »

Offline bopna

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If he were decent to good defensively we wouldn't be able to afford him and he might even be commanding near max money.

I'll just have to live with he has been a decent banger for the Embiid types but he is a human turnstile to fast forwards and centers.
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