Remember that Randle vs Smart thread?

[gpap]

Smart was the right pick. And I still really like Randle.

[IDreamCeltics]

It's pretty clear who the NBA values more.  Randle makes 18 million a year, Smart makes about 12 million a year in salary.

From a market perspective this means Smart is worth about 2/3rds of what Randle is.

[tazzmaniac]

It's pretty clear who the NBA values more.  Randle makes 18 million a year, Smart makes about 12 million a year in salary.

From a market perspective this means Smart is worth about 2/3rds of what Randle is.

Offense is valued more than defense.  Average 20+ points in a contract season and some team is going to pay you very well.   Not that 12M per year is chump change.   

[footey]

It's pretty clear who the NBA values more.  Randle makes 18 million a year, Smart makes about 12 million a year in salary.

From a market perspective this means Smart is worth about 2/3rds of what Randle is.

Signed in different years. Apples and oranges.

[RockinRyA]

It's pretty clear who the NBA values more.  Randle makes 18 million a year, Smart makes about 12 million a year in salary.

From a market perspective this means Smart is worth about 2/3rds of what Randle is.

Signed in different years. Apples and oranges.

Also there are players who are signed for more than their value and some are signed for under. The market also factors in, salary would be higher if you are FA in a season with less targets and more cao pace.

[Moranis]

While I’ve virtually always favored Smart to Randle, and really don’t think it was close enough to warrant the amount of debate that we had, I also don’t think Randle is going to continue to shoot 5% from 3 this season.  His numbers will tick up and those who only vote based on what they see in the box score will once again pine for Randle.

Took less than 15 minutes for such a poster to appear.

come on now.  Boston is 1.1 points per 100 possessions better with Smart on the bench.  The Knicks, even with Randle shooting atrociously, are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better with Randle playing.  In other words all of those defensive and other tangibles Smart has don't really affect the scoreboard.  Randle was better than Smart in that all important metric last year as well so it isn't just a small sample.

Randle, despite playing 1 game as a rookie and playing on worse teams has more winshares than Smart. 

Points matter. Rebounds matter.  They make up a lot of ground on a better defender especially when the better defender turns the ball over at a faster rate and has been one of the worst shooters in nba history (especially factoring in attempts).  Randle has a complete offensive game.  He is an excellent passer, elite rebounder, and a very good scorer. 

[BitterJim]

While I’ve virtually always favored Smart to Randle, and really don’t think it was close enough to warrant the amount of debate that we had, I also don’t think Randle is going to continue to shoot 5% from 3 this season.  His numbers will tick up and those who only vote based on what they see in the box score will once again pine for Randle.

Took less than 15 minutes for such a poster to appear.

come on now.  Boston is 1.1 points per 100 possessions better with Smart on the bench.  The Knicks, even with Randle shooting atrociously, are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better with Randle playing.  In other words all of those defensive and other tangibles Smart has don't really affect the scoreboard.  Randle was better than Smart in that all important metric last year as well so it isn't just a small sample.

Randle, despite playing 1 game as a rookie and playing on worse teams has more winshares than Smart. 

Points matter. Rebounds matter.  They make up a lot of ground on a better defender especially when the better defender turns the ball over at a faster rate and has been one of the worst shooters in nba history (especially factoring in attempts).  Randle has a complete offensive game.  He is an excellent passer, elite rebounder, and a very good scorer.

When Smart goes to the bench, he often gets replaced by guys like Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, and Kemba Walker.

When Randle goes to the bench, he's replaced by guys like RJ Barrett, Marcus Morris, and Bobby Portis, who are not even in the same stratosphere as the guys listed above

Comparing the net ratings of two players on totally different rosters is useless

[BitterJim]

It's pretty clear who the NBA values more.  Randle makes 18 million a year, Smart makes about 12 million a year in salary.

From a market perspective this means Smart is worth about 2/3rds of what Randle is.

Signed in different years. Apples and oranges.

Also there are players who are signed for more than their value and some are signed for under. The market also factors in, salary would be higher if you are FA in a season with less targets and more cao pace.

Not to mention that Smart got 4 guaranteed years, while Randle got 2 guaranteed years and $4 million guaranteed in Year 3. Teams pay a premium for shorter-term contracts

[keevsnick]

While I’ve virtually always favored Smart to Randle, and really don’t think it was close enough to warrant the amount of debate that we had, I also don’t think Randle is going to continue to shoot 5% from 3 this season.  His numbers will tick up and those who only vote based on what they see in the box score will once again pine for Randle.

Took less than 15 minutes for such a poster to appear.

come on now.  Boston is 1.1 points per 100 possessions better with Smart on the bench.  The Knicks, even with Randle shooting atrociously, are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better with Randle playing.  In other words all of those defensive and other tangibles Smart has don't really affect the scoreboard.  Randle was better than Smart in that all important metric last year as well so it isn't just a small sample.

Randle, despite playing 1 game as a rookie and playing on worse teams has more winshares than Smart. 

Points matter. Rebounds matter.  They make up a lot of ground on a better defender especially when the better defender turns the ball over at a faster rate and has been one of the worst shooters in nba history (especially factoring in attempts).  Randle has a complete offensive game.  He is an excellent passer, elite rebounder, and a very good scorer.

When Smart goes to the bench, he often gets replaced by guys like Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, and Kemba Walker.

When Randle goes to the bench, he's replaced by guys like RJ Barrett, Marcus Morris, and Bobby Portis, who are not even in the same stratosphere as the guys listed above

Comparing the net ratings of two players on totally different rosters is useless

Smart plays a lot with the second unit and as a whole our second unit is kind of bad so that will effect his numbers. Its kind of funny because its the inverse of how the Celtics have been the last few years when the bench was the c's strength and Marcus +/- is better because he got to play against second units.

Also, small sample size.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I wonder if Randle would have done as well as Smart did on Love tonight?

[ETNCeltics]

Smart is in his own category of player. Never seen anything like him. Stats never tell his story.

[liam]

Smart is an All Defensive 1st team player, Randle not so much...

[PAOBoston]

Ahhhhhh. The good ole days. So many pages of non sense. We’ve come a long way. Smart is the captain of the team. And he’s a good player too!

[Moranis]

While I’ve virtually always favored Smart to Randle, and really don’t think it was close enough to warrant the amount of debate that we had, I also don’t think Randle is going to continue to shoot 5% from 3 this season.  His numbers will tick up and those who only vote based on what they see in the box score will once again pine for Randle.

Took less than 15 minutes for such a poster to appear.

come on now.  Boston is 1.1 points per 100 possessions better with Smart on the bench.  The Knicks, even with Randle shooting atrociously, are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better with Randle playing.  In other words all of those defensive and other tangibles Smart has don't really affect the scoreboard.  Randle was better than Smart in that all important metric last year as well so it isn't just a small sample.

Randle, despite playing 1 game as a rookie and playing on worse teams has more winshares than Smart. 

Points matter. Rebounds matter.  They make up a lot of ground on a better defender especially when the better defender turns the ball over at a faster rate and has been one of the worst shooters in nba history (especially factoring in attempts).  Randle has a complete offensive game.  He is an excellent passer, elite rebounder, and a very good scorer.

When Smart goes to the bench, he often gets replaced by guys like Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, and Kemba Walker.

When Randle goes to the bench, he's replaced by guys like RJ Barrett, Marcus Morris, and Bobby Portis, who are not even in the same stratosphere as the guys listed above

Comparing the net ratings of two players on totally different rosters is useless

Barrett and Morris start along side Randle, but your point is fine, but that is why I also mentioned Winshares which have nothing to do with who replaces you.  It is also, why I mentioned the points, rebounds, etc.  Smart is a much better defender, no question, but defense is significantly less important than offense when it comes to actually affecting the outcome of a basketball game.  That is why guys like Irving and IT4 could have so much value despite being terrible defenders.  Obviously Randle isn't that level of scorer, but the gap offensively between Randle is Smart is very similar to the gap defensively and since offense is more important, Randle is the better player in a vacuum.  Now as a complimentary player, Smart holds more value as the things he does well he can do well no matter who his teammates are, no matter the touches or role, etc. 

[kraidstar]

Here are some notable players drafted after Smart in the 2014 draft.

Randle (#7)
T. J. Warren (#14)
Nurkic (#16)
Garry Harris (#19)
Clint Capela (#25)
Bogdan Bogdanović (#27)  (he's the one playing for the Kings, imo a very underrated player)
Joe Harris (#33)   (Shooting 54.5% from 3 this season. Obviously, it's a small sample size)
Spencer Dinwiddie (#38)
Jokic (#41)

In a vacuum, which of the above players would you rather have instead of Smart? Jokic is an obvious choice. Anybody else?

Pretty amazing how poor the lottery picks in that draft ended up. Most of the rest were either busts or underwhelming. Wiggins, Parker, Exum, Stauskas, and Vonleh in particular have really been disappointing.