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Where do you currently stand on the impeachment/removal from office of President Trump?

Against impeachment, and furthermore this is a witch hunt.
15 (16.5%)
Against impeachment, evidence evidence of wrongdoing is lacking
2 (2.2%)
Against impeachment, the wrongdoing is not worthy of impeachment
3 (3.3%)
For impeachment, but against removal (a rebuke of the presdients actions)
6 (6.6%)
For impeachment, for removal
59 (64.8%)
I can't decide. I will wait and see as inquiry proceeds.
5 (5.5%)
I haven't followed this closely enough to have an opinion.
1 (1.1%)

Total Members Voted: 91

Author Topic: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)  (Read 154652 times)

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Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2790 on: February 28, 2020, 05:48:25 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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A major win for executive power:

Quote
President Donald Trump scored a major legal victory on Friday when a federal appeals court panel ruled Democrats have no right to hear testimony from former White House counsel Don McGahn.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit’s ruling overturned a lower court decision requiring McGahn’s testimony and told the judge presiding over the case to dismiss it outright. The ruling is a blow to House Democrats’ attempts to break the Trump administration’s intransigent stance that it can block Congress from talking to witnesses.

It also shows how stupid and partisan Count 2 of impeachment was. 
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2791 on: February 28, 2020, 06:54:44 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Investigators in Ukraine have launched a probe into former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden over allegations that he pressured Ukrainian officials to fire the country’s top prosecutor in 2016, according to a report.

The Ukrainian probe was launched in response to a court order, after the ousted prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, made an appeal for action in the matter, Shokin’s attorney, Oleksandr Teleshetsky, told The Washington Post.

“They need to investigate this. They have no other alternative,” Teleshetsky told the Post. “They are required to do this by the decision of the court. If they don't, then they violate a whole string of procedural norms.”

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2792 on: February 28, 2020, 06:57:34 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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A major win for executive power:

Quote
President Donald Trump scored a major legal victory on Friday when a federal appeals court panel ruled Democrats have no right to hear testimony from former White House counsel Don McGahn.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit’s ruling overturned a lower court decision requiring McGahn’s testimony and told the judge presiding over the case to dismiss it outright. The ruling is a blow to House Democrats’ attempts to break the Trump administration’s intransigent stance that it can block Congress from talking to witnesses.

It also shows how stupid and partisan Count 2 of impeachment was.

The logic used in this decision is mind-boggling.   

Quote
"If federal courts were to swoop in to rescue Congress whenever its constitutional tools failed, it would not just supplement the political process; it would replace that process with one in which unelected judges become the perpetual 'overseer(s)' of our elected officials. That is not the role of judges in our democracy, and that is why Article III compels us to dismiss this case," - Judge Thomas Griffith, in the opinion

They specifically are NOT ruling on the validity of the WH's claims of "absolute immunity".   What this language is doing is just washing their hands of it and saying the courts are not there to enforce Congress' desires.

The two judges in the majority of this 2-1 decision, Griffith & Henderson, were both notably GOP appointees.

So this means that, per the decision of these two judges, Congress cannot rely on the judicial branch to back up the legislative branch when it comes to the latter's powers of oversight over the executive branch.   They must only make use of their own "constitutional tools" to do so.

Does this mean that the House should just send out it's Sergeant At Arms to arrest folks and force them to testify?   Do they need to grow that into an actual separate police force? Is that where we are headed?

Otherwise, we are looking at an executive branch that is without check.   

And Republicans used to scream about Obama overreaching with executive power?

How are Republicans going to feel about these sorts of decisions when, inevitably, the wheel turns and Democrats retake the Whitehouse?

This decision is still subject to appeals, of course.  But I'm not putting much faith that the current SCOTUS won't deliver yet another rubber stamp for the WH.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2793 on: February 28, 2020, 07:43:07 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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A major win for executive power:

Quote
President Donald Trump scored a major legal victory on Friday when a federal appeals court panel ruled Democrats have no right to hear testimony from former White House counsel Don McGahn.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit’s ruling overturned a lower court decision requiring McGahn’s testimony and told the judge presiding over the case to dismiss it outright. The ruling is a blow to House Democrats’ attempts to break the Trump administration’s intransigent stance that it can block Congress from talking to witnesses.

It also shows how stupid and partisan Count 2 of impeachment was.

The logic used in this decision is mind-boggling.   

Quote
"If federal courts were to swoop in to rescue Congress whenever its constitutional tools failed, it would not just supplement the political process; it would replace that process with one in which unelected judges become the perpetual 'overseer(s)' of our elected officials. That is not the role of judges in our democracy, and that is why Article III compels us to dismiss this case," - Judge Thomas Griffith, in the opinion

They specifically are NOT ruling on the validity of the WH's claims of "absolute immunity".   What this language is doing is just washing their hands of it and saying the courts are not there to enforce Congress' desires.

The two judges in the majority of this 2-1 decision, Griffith & Henderson, were both notably GOP appointees.

So this means that, per the decision of these two judges, Congress cannot rely on the judicial branch to back up the legislative branch when it comes to the latter's powers of oversight over the executive branch.   They must only make use of their own "constitutional tools" to do so.

Does this mean that the House should just send out it's Sergeant At Arms to arrest folks and force them to testify?   Do they need to grow that into an actual separate police force? Is that where we are headed?

Otherwise, we are looking at an executive branch that is without check.   

And Republicans used to scream about Obama overreaching with executive power?

How are Republicans going to feel about these sorts of decisions when, inevitably, the wheel turns and Democrats retake the Whitehouse?

This decision is still subject to appeals, of course.  But I'm not putting much faith that the current SCOTUS won't deliver yet another rubber stamp for the WH.

I assume they ruled based upon the “political question doctrine”.  It’s never been my favorite line of cases, but it’s not something the DC Circuit made up out of nowhere.

I am much more in favor of the court actually defining the limits of power. 
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2794 on: March 06, 2020, 08:03:41 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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A major win for executive power:

Quote
President Donald Trump scored a major legal victory on Friday when a federal appeals court panel ruled Democrats have no right to hear testimony from former White House counsel Don McGahn.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit’s ruling overturned a lower court decision requiring McGahn’s testimony and told the judge presiding over the case to dismiss it outright. The ruling is a blow to House Democrats’ attempts to break the Trump administration’s intransigent stance that it can block Congress from talking to witnesses.

It also shows how stupid and partisan Count 2 of impeachment was.

The logic used in this decision is mind-boggling.   

Quote
"If federal courts were to swoop in to rescue Congress whenever its constitutional tools failed, it would not just supplement the political process; it would replace that process with one in which unelected judges become the perpetual 'overseer(s)' of our elected officials. That is not the role of judges in our democracy, and that is why Article III compels us to dismiss this case," - Judge Thomas Griffith, in the opinion

They specifically are NOT ruling on the validity of the WH's claims of "absolute immunity".   What this language is doing is just washing their hands of it and saying the courts are not there to enforce Congress' desires.

The two judges in the majority of this 2-1 decision, Griffith & Henderson, were both notably GOP appointees.

So this means that, per the decision of these two judges, Congress cannot rely on the judicial branch to back up the legislative branch when it comes to the latter's powers of oversight over the executive branch.   They must only make use of their own "constitutional tools" to do so.

Does this mean that the House should just send out it's Sergeant At Arms to arrest folks and force them to testify?   Do they need to grow that into an actual separate police force? Is that where we are headed?

Otherwise, we are looking at an executive branch that is without check.   

And Republicans used to scream about Obama overreaching with executive power?

How are Republicans going to feel about these sorts of decisions when, inevitably, the wheel turns and Democrats retake the Whitehouse?

This decision is still subject to appeals, of course.  But I'm not putting much faith that the current SCOTUS won't deliver yet another rubber stamp for the WH.

I assume they ruled based upon the “political question doctrine”.  It’s never been my favorite line of cases, but it’s not something the DC Circuit made up out of nowhere.

I am much more in favor of the court actually defining the limits of power.
I think this is a result of the partisan split in the country. Conservatives and Republicans honestly believe that impeachment and all of these investigations are partisan attacks by the Democrats without merit. A conservative judge looking at this sees the house majority abusing its power to investigate an issue that the Senate has already dealt with. I'm not saying that's the only way to see it, but I think that's what they honestly believe.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2795 on: April 03, 2020, 11:24:59 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Trump has fired the Inspector General for the intelligence committee who handled the whistleblower complaint that triggered his impeachment. Another head rolls.

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump has fired Michael Atkinson, the inspector general for the intelligence community who handled the whistleblower complaint that triggered Trump's impeachment.

Trump informed the Senate intelligence committee Friday of his decision to fire Atkinson, according to a letter obtained by The Associated Press.

Trump said in the letter that it is “vital” that he has confidence in the appointees serving as inspectors general, and “that is no longer the case with regard to this inspector general.”

He did not elaborate, except to say that “it is extremely important that we promote the economy, efficiency and effectiveness of federal programs and activities," and that inspectors general are critical to those goals.

Atkinson was the first to inform Congress about an anonymous whistleblower complaint last year that described Trump’s pressure on Ukraine to investigate Democrat Joe Biden and his son. That complaint prompted a House investigation that ultimately resulted in Trump's impeachment.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/04/nation/trump-fires-watchdog-who-handled-ukraine-complaint/
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2796 on: April 04, 2020, 01:58:51 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Surprised it took so long.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2797 on: April 04, 2020, 12:36:35 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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Surprised it took so long.

He would have done it sooner, but Trump was distracted by the Coronavirus.


Or was it the other way ‘round?

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2798 on: April 08, 2020, 09:44:43 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Certainly a frightening thread, when it is all laid out there. It is incredible how anti-democratic the republican party has gotten.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2799 on: April 09, 2020, 01:25:26 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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So, a bipartisan group of senators sent a letter demanding an explanation for the IC Inspector General's firing, citing 2008 law that requires specific grounds for termination of an IG.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/08/senate-trump-inspector-general-176407
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2800 on: April 09, 2020, 02:11:25 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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So, a bipartisan group of senators sent a letter demanding an explanation for the IC Inspector General's firing, citing 2008 law that requires specific grounds for termination of an IG.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/08/senate-trump-inspector-general-176407

He's the most corrupt President in US history.

The GOP had a chance to get rid of this huge headache and they chose a path of collaboration instead.

Now look at where we are. And judging by the polls the GOP still hasn't learned a thing. The letter is symbolic until they actually DO something. Which they will not. This country is in deep, deep trouble.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2801 on: April 09, 2020, 02:25:14 PM »

Offline liam

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So, a bipartisan group of senators sent a letter demanding an explanation for the IC Inspector General's firing, citing 2008 law that requires specific grounds for termination of an IG.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/08/senate-trump-inspector-general-176407

He's the most corrupt President in US history.

The GOP had a chance to get rid of this huge headache and they chose a path of collaboration instead.

Now look at where we are. And judging by the polls the GOP still hasn't learned a thing. The letter is symbolic until they actually DO something. Which they will not. This country is in deep, deep trouble.

When you tell someone repeatedly that they are above the law they will keep doing whatever they want. The Senate gave Trump a free pass so here we are.

And this:

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge in Manhattan rejected an effort by U.S. President Donald Trump and his adult children to send a lawsuit accusing them of exploiting their family name to promote a marketing scam into arbitration.

In a Wednesday night decision concerning the American Communications Network, U.S. District Judge Lorna Schofield accused the Trumps of acting unfairly by seeking arbitration after first obtaining "the benefits of litigating in federal court," including the dismissal of a racketeering claim.

"This conduct is both substantively prejudicial towards Plaintiffs and seeks to use the [Federal Arbitration Act] as a vehicle to manipulate the rules of procedure to Defendants' benefit and Plaintiffs' harm," Schofield wrote.

Defendants included Trump's adult children Donald Jr., Eric and Ivanka, and an affiliate of the Trump Organization."
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 03:21:25 PM by liam »

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2802 on: April 09, 2020, 04:58:14 PM »

Offline heyvik

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So, a bipartisan group of senators sent a letter demanding an explanation for the IC Inspector General's firing, citing 2008 law that requires specific grounds for termination of an IG.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/08/senate-trump-inspector-general-176407

He's the most corrupt President in US history.

The GOP had a chance to get rid of this huge headache and they chose a path of collaboration instead.

Now look at where we are. And judging by the polls the GOP still hasn't learned a thing. The letter is symbolic until they actually DO something. Which they will not. This country is in deep, deep trouble.

When you tell someone repeatedly that they are above the law they will keep doing whatever they want. The Senate gave Trump a free pass so here we are.

And this:

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge in Manhattan rejected an effort by U.S. President Donald Trump and his adult children to send a lawsuit accusing them of exploiting their family name to promote a marketing scam into arbitration.

In a Wednesday night decision concerning the American Communications Network, U.S. District Judge Lorna Schofield accused the Trumps of acting unfairly by seeking arbitration after first obtaining "the benefits of litigating in federal court," including the dismissal of a racketeering claim.

"This conduct is both substantively prejudicial towards Plaintiffs and seeks to use the [Federal Arbitration Act] as a vehicle to manipulate the rules of procedure to Defendants' benefit and Plaintiffs' harm," Schofield wrote.

Defendants included Trump's adult children Donald Jr., Eric and Ivanka, and an affiliate of the Trump Organization."
Until you break the cycle of [Trump>Senators>Representatives>Fox News>Trumpians] we will continue to see the same thing over and over again. Trump influences the Trumpians who fuel the rest. Senators and Reps are claiming they are doing what their constituents want. These Trumpians watch FoxNews and other RW media who in turn fuel Trump...

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2803 on: April 09, 2020, 10:24:11 PM »

Offline liam

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So, a bipartisan group of senators sent a letter demanding an explanation for the IC Inspector General's firing, citing 2008 law that requires specific grounds for termination of an IG.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/08/senate-trump-inspector-general-176407

He's the most corrupt President in US history.

The GOP had a chance to get rid of this huge headache and they chose a path of collaboration instead.

Now look at where we are. And judging by the polls the GOP still hasn't learned a thing. The letter is symbolic until they actually DO something. Which they will not. This country is in deep, deep trouble.

When you tell someone repeatedly that they are above the law they will keep doing whatever they want. The Senate gave Trump a free pass so here we are.

And this:

"NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge in Manhattan rejected an effort by U.S. President Donald Trump and his adult children to send a lawsuit accusing them of exploiting their family name to promote a marketing scam into arbitration.

In a Wednesday night decision concerning the American Communications Network, U.S. District Judge Lorna Schofield accused the Trumps of acting unfairly by seeking arbitration after first obtaining "the benefits of litigating in federal court," including the dismissal of a racketeering claim.

"This conduct is both substantively prejudicial towards Plaintiffs and seeks to use the [Federal Arbitration Act] as a vehicle to manipulate the rules of procedure to Defendants' benefit and Plaintiffs' harm," Schofield wrote.

Defendants included Trump's adult children Donald Jr., Eric and Ivanka, and an affiliate of the Trump Organization."
Until you break the cycle of [Trump>Senators>Representatives>Fox News>Trumpians] we will continue to see the same thing over and over again. Trump influences the Trumpians who fuel the rest. Senators and Reps are claiming they are doing what their constituents want. These Trumpians watch FoxNews and other RW media who in turn fuel Trump...

Yup, that's the cycle...

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, Trump acquitted)
« Reply #2804 on: April 23, 2020, 01:07:45 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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