Poll

Where do you currently stand on the impeachment/removal from office of President Trump?

Against impeachment, and furthermore this is a witch hunt.
6 (11.1%)
Against impeachment, evidence evidence of wrongdoing is lacking
2 (3.7%)
Against impeachment, the wrongdoing is not worthy of impeachment
1 (1.9%)
For impeachment, but against removal (a rebuke of the presdients actions)
3 (5.6%)
For impeachment, for removal
38 (70.4%)
I can't decide. I will wait and see as inquiry proceeds.
4 (7.4%)
I haven't followed this closely enough to have an opinion.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Author Topic: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, hearings underway)  (Read 60813 times)

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Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1380 on: November 07, 2019, 01:02:45 PM »

Offline heyvik

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Jim Jordan will subpoena the whistleblower
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jordan-republicans-will-subpoena-whistleblower-for-public-hearing/ar-BBWq7o7?ocid=spartanntp

Quote
House Democrats, who control the majority on the committees conducting the resulting impeachment probe, are expected to shut down the subpoena request as they have already rejected the idea of the whistleblower testifying in public, citing concern for the anonymous member of the intelligence community’s safety.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1381 on: November 07, 2019, 02:54:45 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Jim Jordan will subpoena the whistleblower
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jordan-republicans-will-subpoena-whistleblower-for-public-hearing/ar-BBWq7o7?ocid=spartanntp

Quote
House Democrats, who control the majority on the committees conducting the resulting impeachment probe, are expected to shut down the subpoena request as they have already rejected the idea of the whistleblower testifying in public, citing concern for the anonymous member of the intelligence community’s safety.
If this is the first subpoena request from Republicans, it's no wonder the Inquiry rules had oversight of the Republican ability to issue subpoenas. Without that oversight the Republicans would be issuing subpoenas to the whistleblower, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Hillary Clinton, James Comey........

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1382 on: November 07, 2019, 04:55:08 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
  Or have there been credible leaks about the idenity of the WB that I'm not aware of? 

The name being reported throughout the blogosphere and rightwing radio is Eric Ciaramella. A google search will provide both accurate background info and a ton of spin.
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Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1383 on: November 07, 2019, 04:58:44 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I'm not going to start a whole new thread on this because, basketball blog during basketball season, but Trump was just ordered to pay a $2 million fine for abusing his charitable foundation for his own interests.

This would've been the biggest scandal of nearly any Presidency in history, particularly the campaign-related abuse, but instead it's barely a story today because of how commonplace massive corruption has become with the GOP's utter acquiescence to Trump.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/11/7/20954033/trump-fine-trump-foundation-charity
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 06:41:31 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1384 on: November 07, 2019, 06:04:53 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Quote
  Or have there been credible leaks about the idenity of the WB that I'm not aware of? 

The name being reported throughout the blogosphere and rightwing radio is Eric Ciaramella. A google search will provide both accurate background info and a ton of spin.

Yes, I guess I saw this a week or so ago but didn't pay much attention to it.  Until more comes out, I am feeling bad for this young man.

1. Maybe he isn't the WB.
2. If he is, isn't our healthiest assumption one that gives him benefit of doubt?  In other words, that maybe he did this righteously, believing that he was doing what he was supposed to do. Believing that he would be protected from exposure and ridicule. 

You're right Roy -- the spin found on the google search is prolific.  I think it's ugly.  Shame on DJT, Rand Paul and others for pushing the outing and for the speculative pejorative labeling of the WB.   I completely understand that he may have been a Dem pawn and Schiff may have been manipulative in the process, but I see no real evidence of that, it's presumption and speculation and completely unfair (at least right now) to the WB, whoever it is.

This entire thing is revolting.  I have always said that Obama was a failure as a leader.  He couldn't do what great leaders do -- pull people together.  Trump has managed to make America decidedly worse in this regard.  I'm not saying Dems haven't make it difficult, they have. But a great leader is just that... It's on him.  America ain't Great right now.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1385 on: November 07, 2019, 06:08:34 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I'm not going to start a whole new thread on this because, basketball blog during basketball season, but Trump was just ordered to pay a $2 million fine for abusing his charitable foundation for his own interests.

This would've been the biggest scandal of nearly any Presidency in history, but instead it's barely a story today because of how commonplace massive corruption has become with the GOP's utter acquiescence to Trump.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/11/7/20954033/trump-fine-trump-foundation-charity

You are correct. At this point you either ignore it and consider it fake news from the media, or you are so numb to his corruption and dispicability that it's just another day.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1386 on: November 07, 2019, 08:12:57 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Without that oversight the Republicans would be issuing subpoenas to the whistleblower, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Hillary Clinton, James Comey........

This is likely to happen either way to illustrate that quid pro quo was ignored in a few cases but not this one.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1387 on: November 08, 2019, 09:06:27 AM »

Offline heyvik

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Yovanovitch communicated with Dem staffer on 'delicate' issue after complaint, emails show, despite testimony

Quote
Fox News is told it is a breach of normal procedure for congressional staff to reach out to a current State Department employee at their personal email address for official business.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/yovanovitch-communicated-with-dem-staffer-on-delicate-issue-after-complaint-emails-show-despite-testimony/ar-BBWrcBm?ocid=spartanntp

is this a nothing burger or does this have legs for the Republicans?

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1388 on: November 08, 2019, 09:53:27 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote
Without that oversight the Republicans would be issuing subpoenas to the whistleblower, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Hillary Clinton, James Comey........

This is likely to happen either way to illustrate that quid pro quo was ignored in a few cases but not this one.

Flailing incoherent whatabouting as an official defense to gross abuse of the Presidency seems very on-brand for a number of folks.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1389 on: November 08, 2019, 10:49:44 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Quote
Without that oversight the Republicans would be issuing subpoenas to the whistleblower, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Hillary Clinton, James Comey........

This is likely to happen either way to illustrate that quid pro quo was ignored in a few cases but not this one.

Flailing incoherent whatabouting as an official defense to gross abuse of the Presidency seems very on-brand for a number of folks.
45's greatest legacy will be the normalization of anti-intellectualism.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1390 on: November 08, 2019, 03:27:41 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Quote
  Or have there been credible leaks about the idenity of the WB that I'm not aware of? 

The name being reported throughout the blogosphere and rightwing radio is ********. A google search will provide both accurate background info and a ton of spin.

Jeezus.  Please, just stop Roy.  This is so freaking irresponsible.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1391 on: November 08, 2019, 03:32:14 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Quote
Without that oversight the Republicans would be issuing subpoenas to the whistleblower, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Hillary Clinton, James Comey........

This is likely to happen either way to illustrate that quid pro quo was ignored in a few cases but not this one.

Because, of course, whataboutism is such a strong legal defense.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1392 on: November 08, 2019, 03:34:33 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Yovanovitch communicated with Dem staffer on 'delicate' issue after complaint, emails show, despite testimony

Quote
Fox News is told it is a breach of normal procedure for congressional staff to reach out to a current State Department employee at their personal email address for official business.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/yovanovitch-communicated-with-dem-staffer-on-delicate-issue-after-complaint-emails-show-despite-testimony/ar-BBWrcBm?ocid=spartanntp

is this a nothing burger or does this have legs for the Republicans?

It is a nothing-burger, but will have strong legs with their base.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1393 on: November 08, 2019, 04:40:57 PM »

Offline td450

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Ultimately, this is why this is a crime:

"The investigation I conducted concerning 2016 Ukrainian collusion and corruption, was done solely as a defense attorney to defend my client against false charges..."

-Rudy Giuliani

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1192180680391843841


Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1394 on: November 09, 2019, 11:04:46 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote
Without that oversight the Republicans would be issuing subpoenas to the whistleblower, Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Hillary Clinton, James Comey........

This is likely to happen either way to illustrate that quid pro quo was ignored in a few cases but not this one.

Flailing incoherent whatabouting as an official defense to gross abuse of the Presidency seems very on-brand for a number of folks.
It does appear that the Republican defense will not be about what the President did or did not do, but will instead attempt to recreate what the President wanted Ukraine to do.

Some of their list of people they want subpoena'ed:

The whistleblower
Hunter Biden
Nellie Ohr - former Fusion director
Alexandra Chapula - a DNC staffer with Ukraine ties
Devon Archer- a former Burisma board member

I think the Republicans know they won't find Trump guilty of anything in the Senate so plan on using the House impeachment hearings to do what Trump wanted Ukraine to do, which is deflect from his own corruption, bring forth the dirt on Biden, discredit the Mueller Report and help the Trump campaign.

I seriously doubt Schiff allows this to happen though.