Poll

Where do you currently stand on the impeachment/removal from office of President Trump?

Against impeachment, and furthermore this is a witch hunt.
6 (11.5%)
Against impeachment, evidence evidence of wrongdoing is lacking
2 (3.8%)
Against impeachment, the wrongdoing is not worthy of impeachment
1 (1.9%)
For impeachment, but against removal (a rebuke of the presdients actions)
3 (5.8%)
For impeachment, for removal
36 (69.2%)
I can't decide. I will wait and see as inquiry proceeds.
4 (7.7%)
I haven't followed this closely enough to have an opinion.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 52

Author Topic: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing, hearings underway)  (Read 55802 times)

heyvik, slamtheking, Ogaju, blink, W8ting2McHale, Amonkey, Vermont Green, No Nickname (+ 1 Hidden) and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1230 on: October 18, 2019, 07:52:29 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
A nifty piece by BuzzFeed contemplating a major unintended consequence of the Democrats’ pursuit of impeachment. The Senate’s rules when the president is on trial are clear: Attendance is mandatory. Mitch McConnell has already announced that the proceedings will run six days a week (Sundays are off) beginning each day at 12:30 p.m. ET and running until … who knows when. Conventional wisdom has it that House Dems will vote on impeachment before Thanksgiving and the Senate will take up the matter shortly thereafter, with the trial set to run throughout December.

The first Democratic presidential vote, in Iowa, takes place on February 3.

All of which means that no fewer than six Democratic presidential candidates will be stuck spending prime campaign time bogged down in the Capitol as jurors in Trump’s case instead of out on the trail in the early states stumping for votes. Specifically, it’s Michael Bennet, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar … and Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren.

No wonder Mitch is saying that the trial will take several weeks.
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Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1231 on: October 18, 2019, 11:24:50 PM »

Online slamtheking

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Quote
A nifty piece by BuzzFeed contemplating a major unintended consequence of the Democrats’ pursuit of impeachment. The Senate’s rules when the president is on trial are clear: Attendance is mandatory. Mitch McConnell has already announced that the proceedings will run six days a week (Sundays are off) beginning each day at 12:30 p.m. ET and running until … who knows when. Conventional wisdom has it that House Dems will vote on impeachment before Thanksgiving and the Senate will take up the matter shortly thereafter, with the trial set to run throughout December.

The first Democratic presidential vote, in Iowa, takes place on February 3.

All of which means that no fewer than six Democratic presidential candidates will be stuck spending prime campaign time bogged down in the Capitol as jurors in Trump’s case instead of out on the trail in the early states stumping for votes. Specifically, it’s Michael Bennet, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar … and Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren.

No wonder Mitch is saying that the trial will take several weeks.
Yup, Moscow Mitch hard at work keeping Russia's pet in the WH by mucking with the election as best he can.  Won't allow bring legislation for preventing election interference to the floor and will do whatever he can to try to skew the democratic election process. 

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1232 on: October 19, 2019, 12:51:57 AM »

Offline liam

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Mike drop....

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1233 on: October 19, 2019, 01:10:13 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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So while we have Biden acting like he didn't know anything about Hunter, feigning ignorance, we now have leaked testimony from George Kent that he did warn the Biden camp about Hunter and the problem he presented in being with Burisma to the efforts of what the US was trying to accomplish with Ukraine.

Of course, the spin was that his other son was dealing with brain cancer, so let's ignore indiscretions.

At the same time, we have a congressman claiming that the context of that testimony wasn't about Hunter, which again brings us the point of, what can we believe about the leaks, particularly without the proper context to accompany them, and even if those that want to spin the testimonies to their favor if they're being truthful about said context.

Which again brings me to the point of, man, I hate leaks.

But who cares...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/18/politics/diplomat-george-kent-testifies-hunter-biden-ukraine/index.html

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1234 on: October 19, 2019, 12:21:56 PM »

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Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1235 on: October 21, 2019, 03:22:19 PM »

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Folks seem to assume a lot from this closed door hearings and all we are getting is selectively leaked to fire up respective bases.   Until they vote to impeach the President, I would not put a lot of stock on these hearings.   They are a political circus whose contents are closed.

Quote
This is a secret, secret proceeding. And the only information you're getting out of what's happening there is coming from the leaks that are coming out from the Democrats," he told reporters.

House conservatives on Wednesday attempted to barge into a closed-door hearing where a former top aide to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was providing testimony in the Democrats' impeachment inquiry.

While none of the lawmakers sit on the committees leading the impeachment inquiry — House Intelligence, Foreign Affairs, and Oversight and Reform — they argued the process has lacked transparency and all members should have access to the information.

The conservatives, led by House Freedom Caucus Chairman Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.), also attempted to view the transcript of testimony from Kurt Volker, President Trump's former special envoy to Ukraine, arguing the information released so far has been "cherry-picked by Democrats."

Biggs accused Democrats of leaking selective information that doesn’t provide the full story and alleged they were holding “Soviet-style, secret hearings.”

"This is a secret, secret proceeding. And the only information you're getting out of what's happening there is coming from the leaks that are coming out from the Democrats," he told reporters.

“I've not heard of leaks [from Republicans] and I know people, I've got great friends that are sitting in there," Biggs said. "You know what they tell me? I can't tell you. I can't tell you what's going on in there, but I could read you The New York Times what the Democrats leak.”

Rep. Andy Harris (R-Md.) said he was not allowed to read Volker's transcript.

“I went in there today, they denied me reading the transcript. That's egregious — I sit on the Appropriations Committee. We appropriate money to pay for that,” he said.

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), who sits on the House Judiciary Committee, argued members of the Judiciary panel should have access to the information.

"We're in there, we're told by security staff that they can't tell us who gave the order, but the order is that they can't allow elected members of Congress into a hearing. And they can't allow elected members of Congress to review the transcript of testimony before a congressional committee,” he said.


House conservatives on Wednesday attempted to barge into a closed-door hearing where a former top aide to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was providing testimony in the Democrats' impeachment inquiry.

While none of the lawmakers sit on the committees leading the impeachment inquiry — House Intelligence, Foreign Affairs, and Oversight and Reform — they argued the process has lacked transparency and all members should have access to the information.

The conservatives, led by House Freedom Caucus Chairman Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.), also attempted to view the transcript of testimony from Kurt Volker, President Trump's former special envoy to Ukraine, arguing the information released so far has been "cherry-picked by Democrats."

Biggs accused Democrats of leaking selective information that doesn’t provide the full story and alleged they were holding “Soviet-style, secret hearings.”

"This is a secret, secret proceeding. And the only information you're getting out of what's happening there is coming from the leaks that are coming out from the Democrats," he told reporters.

“I've not heard of leaks [from Republicans] and I know people, I've got great friends that are sitting in there," Biggs said. "You know what they tell me? I can't tell you. I can't tell you what's going on in there, but I could read you The New York Times what the Democrats leak.”

Rep. Andy Harris (R-Md.) said he was not allowed to read Volker's transcript.

“I went in there today, they denied me reading the transcript. That's egregious — I sit on the Appropriations Committee. We appropriate money to pay for that,” he said.

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), who sits on the House Judiciary Committee, argued members of the Judiciary panel should have access to the information.

"We're in there, we're told by security staff that they can't tell us who gave the order, but the order is that they can't allow elected members of Congress into a hearing. And they can't allow elected members of Congress to review the transcript of testimony before a congressional committee,” he said.

“Some of us are even on the impeachment committee by rule of precedent — that's the Judiciary Committee. And so we just spent all this time hearing from staff that somebody out there gave an order that the rest of us could not listen and could not hear and see what was going on.”

“I've been trying to see the Volker transcript since yesterday afternoon, I was told I could see it at noon today, they canceled that as well. And now they are telling us the Volker transcript isn't ready,” Rep. Roger Marshall (R-Kan.), who is running for Senate, told reporters. “There's nothing fair about this, they're trying this in the court of public opinion right now so Americans deserve to hear both sides of the story in real time.”.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/466114-house-conservatives-attempt-to-access-closed-door-impeachment-hearing

So why the lack of transparency; On-going Investigation?   Hidding Facts?   Political Gamemanship?  All of the Preceding Comments?

While part of me think this is a stunt by the conservatives to bar in, it is also a stunt to leak testimony and have closed doors to Congress and us.   It is hilarious that folks are treating these leaks like they are facts.  I would really like to see all the facts and not just selective leaks.   I know the Volker testimony was bad for Schiff's case.  We the American People deserve that and people on both sides should want that.

Quote
A President awarding a contract to himself is some rock bottom corruption.

Agree, bad for the country.

If I remember correctly, isn't this the same thing that Barr did when the Mueller report came out? Didn't he 'control' the narrative and the information that was given out the public - EXCEPT that the information was purposely misleading.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1236 on: October 21, 2019, 04:10:26 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1186340167193366529?s=20

"I don't think you people, with this phony Emoluments Clause...and by the way, I would say that it has cost me between 2 to 5 billion dollars to be president"

This guy man....this terrible con artist we elected. Every day he finds a way to embarrass his office.

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Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1237 on: October 22, 2019, 04:32:40 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

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Ukraine envoy Bill Taylor testified today and essentially described a scheme of irregular policy channels that molded our entire foreign policy toward Ukraine around the President's personal political interests. Trump appears to have insisted there was no quid pro quo while creating exactly that. He also paints Sondland and Volker as having far more knowledge of what was happening than they seem to have testified to.


Quote
Ambassador Sondland tried to explain to me that President Trump is a businessman. When a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something, he said, the businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the check.

Apparently Trump is personally "owed" things for taxpayers' money allotted by Congress.



Full opening statement:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6508986/Bill-Taylor-Opening-Statement.pdf
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 04:39:23 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1238 on: October 22, 2019, 06:28:26 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The Bill Taylor testimony  hurt Pres, Trump  and directly supported the Dem efforts.  Next up Laura K. Cooper and it will be interesting to hear what she says.

On a side note
Pelosi's son surprise does business with the Ukraine and guess he used his mom to promote his business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1KfU5ifhqE

Note, I am not accusing him of wrong doing but it seems par for the course.

Schiff too has Ukraine ties to Pasternak, a wealthlty Businessman who gave him a fund raiser.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1239 on: October 22, 2019, 08:01:42 PM »

Online arctic 3.0

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If anyone wants a worst case of how it may end for the diehards, I’d recommend grabbing some popcorn and watching Downfall.

Hyperbole aside, as the son of WW2 era German emigre’s i have thought often about the big lie. I never understood how a nation could fall under the spell of such egregious liars and con men. I still don’t, but this era has given me insight into the willing suspension of  skepticism necessary for the lie to take hold.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1240 on: October 23, 2019, 01:14:03 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

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If you're wondering how things are going for the Congressional Republicans and their passion for the rule of law they just mob stormed the SCIF area where Cooper is testifying to disrupt the legal proceeding happening. They also brought their cell phones into the highly classified area which is a massive violation of security protocols.

Brooks Brothers Riot Part 2 for those old enough to remember, except now with classified information. It'd be a felony, maybe several, for you or I to try and pull a stunt like that.

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1187016550794121218

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1241 on: October 23, 2019, 01:46:51 PM »

Online heyvik

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If you're wondering how things are going for the Congressional Republicans and their passion for the rule of law they just mob stormed the SCIF area where Cooper is testifying to disrupt the legal proceeding happening. They also brought their cell phones into the highly classified area which is a massive violation of security protocols.

Brooks Brothers Riot Part 2 for those old enough to remember, except now with classified information. It'd be a felony, maybe several, for you or I to try and pull a stunt like that.

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1187016550794121218
Complete IDIOTS!

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1242 on: October 23, 2019, 01:49:10 PM »

Online heyvik

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-allies-push-back-on-quid-pro-quo-say-envoy-testified-ukraine-initially-unaware-of-aid-holdup/ar-AAJdZ86?ocid=spartanntp
A Republican leak -
Quote
President Trump and his allies in Congress pushed back against damaging revelations from diplomat Bill Taylor’s Tuesday testimony — in which the Ukraine envoy said the administration linked U.S. military aid to a call for politically related investigations in Kiev — saying the witness also acknowledged under questioning that Ukraine was initially in the dark on the aid holdup.
 
Rep. John Ratcliffe, R-Texas, asserted that this counters claims of a “quid pro quo.”
“At the end of the day, this was about quid pro quo and whether or not the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld and on that most important issue. Neither this witness or any other witness has provided any evidence that there was a quid pro quo, or any evidence that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld on July 25,” Ratcliffe said on “The Story” Tuesday night, claiming that absent testimony speaking to that point, “a quid pro quo is legally impossible.”
He was referring to the now-famous phone call on July 25 between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, during which Trump pressed for investigations into 2016 election interference and Biden family dealings in the country, specifically Hunter Biden's role on the board of natural gas firm Burisma Holdings.

Trump allies push back on ‘quid pro quo,’ say envoy testified Ukraine initially unaware of aid holdup
A source familiar with the testimony confirmed to Fox News that during questioning on Capitol Hill Tuesday, Taylor said the Ukrainians did not know at the time of the call about the hold on U.S. military aid.
“The mainstream media reporting that he provided evidence of a quid pro quo involving military aid is false — I questioned him directly on that,” Ratcliffe said Tuesday.“I can’t tell you what he said … but I can tell you what he didn’t say — neither he nor any other witness has provided testimony that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld.” 
He added: “You can’t have a quid pro quo with no quo.”

I wonder if this actually holds any weight?

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1243 on: October 23, 2019, 01:58:34 PM »

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If you're wondering how things are going for the Congressional Republicans and their passion for the rule of law they just mob stormed the SCIF area where Cooper is testifying to disrupt the legal proceeding happening. They also brought their cell phones into the highly classified area which is a massive violation of security protocols.

Brooks Brothers Riot Part 2 for those old enough to remember, except now with classified information. It'd be a felony, maybe several, for you or I to try and pull a stunt like that.

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1187016550794121218

The idea that the republicans don't have representation in this process is complete bs.  The storming of the committee by non-members is a farce, and shouldn't be allowed.  If these 'lawmakers' can't respect the rules of their own branch of government, they shouldn't be allowed to serve.

The impeachment inquiry is being handled by six committees:  Financial Services, Judiciary, Intelligence, Foreign Affairs, Oversight and Reform and Ways and Means.  All of these committees have republicans on the committees.

Re: This Ukraine thing (aka, the impeachment thing)
« Reply #1244 on: October 23, 2019, 02:03:42 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-allies-push-back-on-quid-pro-quo-say-envoy-testified-ukraine-initially-unaware-of-aid-holdup/ar-AAJdZ86?ocid=spartanntp
A Republican leak -
Quote
President Trump and his allies in Congress pushed back against damaging revelations from diplomat Bill Taylor’s Tuesday testimony — in which the Ukraine envoy said the administration linked U.S. military aid to a call for politically related investigations in Kiev — saying the witness also acknowledged under questioning that Ukraine was initially in the dark on the aid holdup.
 
Rep. John Ratcliffe, R-Texas, asserted that this counters claims of a “quid pro quo.”
“At the end of the day, this was about quid pro quo and whether or not the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld and on that most important issue. Neither this witness or any other witness has provided any evidence that there was a quid pro quo, or any evidence that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld on July 25,” Ratcliffe said on “The Story” Tuesday night, claiming that absent testimony speaking to that point, “a quid pro quo is legally impossible.”
He was referring to the now-famous phone call on July 25 between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, during which Trump pressed for investigations into 2016 election interference and Biden family dealings in the country, specifically Hunter Biden's role on the board of natural gas firm Burisma Holdings.

Trump allies push back on ‘quid pro quo,’ say envoy testified Ukraine initially unaware of aid holdup
A source familiar with the testimony confirmed to Fox News that during questioning on Capitol Hill Tuesday, Taylor said the Ukrainians did not know at the time of the call about the hold on U.S. military aid.
“The mainstream media reporting that he provided evidence of a quid pro quo involving military aid is false — I questioned him directly on that,” Ratcliffe said Tuesday.“I can’t tell you what he said … but I can tell you what he didn’t say — neither he nor any other witness has provided testimony that the Ukrainians were aware that military aid was being withheld.” 
He added: “You can’t have a quid pro quo with no quo.”

I wonder if this actually holds any weight?

It holds absolutely no weight.  Ukrainian officials were told of the aid freeze weeks before the call.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/23/us/politics/ukraine-aid-freeze-impeachment.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
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