Author Topic: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France  (Read 8504 times)

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Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2019, 07:07:34 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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It stinks that they didn't win with a roster of NBA players. It also stinks that this team had 4 celtics on it and couldn't win.  NO tatum again hurt.  Kemba had a bad game as well and I didn't see if Brown did anything. 

The olympics will be different because the Stars will play in that game.  I was hoping they'd win and maybe we'd see 1 Celtic on the Olympic roster.  I doubt that happens now.

Well, let's be fair - France is a pretty loaded roster as well.   The are able to put out a 5-man lineup of

PG Nando De Colo (4-time All-Euroleague, Euroleague MVP)
Wing Fournier (NBA vet)
Wing Nkitilina (NBA vet)
Wing Batum (NBA vet)
C Rudy Gobert (NBA DPOY)

That's a 5-man lineup that would beast in the NBA.   Very complementary players there.  De Colo is 6' 5" and the real deal.  Very talented ball-handler and shooter.   Gobert is at least as good as anybody on Team USA's roster.   The other guys are all legit NBA vets.   And these guys all play well together.

The point is, Team USA just lost to a team that is really, really talented.

And a lot of it just came down to cold shooting.   Folks might focus on Kemba shooting only 2 of 6 with 0 assists in the 4th period, but the real killer was Mitchell (0/3), Middleton (1/3) and Jaylen (0/1) combining to go only 1 of 7 in that 4th period.   Not to mention the many times when Team USA players simply shied off of taking shots.
Fournier, Ntilikina, Batum?  Beast in the NBA?  Did I go to sleep and wake up in an alternate universe?

Did you miss the other two names?   De Colo is a fantastic player who arguably would be at least close to fringe all-star level player in the NBA and Gobert is the freaking reigning DPOY.

I never said "Fournier, Ntillikina & Batum" were beasts in the NBA.  I said that FIVE MAN LINEUP would be.   And I'm not saying it would beat last year's Raptor's starting 5 or the prior year's GSW death lineup.   

I'm just pointing out that would be a hell of a strong 5-man lineup that would compete very favorably in the NBA.   It's got guards and wings that can shoot plus an elite big who can score on the roll and dominate on defense.   That's a very potent recipe.
In a one off tourney like this, against competition like this, that France team can beast. Against NBA teams for an entire season, they are worse than last year's Jazz team. That's not beating.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2019, 07:23:03 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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IMO, the major problem for the US team is lack of quality big men compared to other nations. Most of the top big men in the NBA are not US players:

Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Vucevic, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Steven Adams, Clint Capella, Kristaps Porzingis

All foreign players in International competition.

On top of that, the international rules are not as biased against big men as the modern NBA rules. All that's left for the US for top NBA big men are AD, Towns, and Durant. Durant is injured, the other two bailed on the team. We can't go into international tournaments with guys like Plumlee and Lopez. Turner is ok, but pales in comparison to guys like Gobert, Jokic and Embiid.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2019, 07:51:54 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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IMO, the major problem for the US team is lack of quality big men compared to other nations. Most of the top big men in the NBA are not US players:

Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Vucevic, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Steven Adams, Clint Capella, Kristaps Porzingis

All foreign players in International competition.

On top of that, the international rules are not as biased against big men as the modern NBA rules. All that's left for the US for top NBA big men are AD, Towns, and Durant. Durant is injured, the other two bailed on the team. We can't go into international tournaments with guys like Plumlee and Lopez. Turner is ok, but pales in comparison to guys like Gobert, Jokic and Embiid.

Towns is only eligible to play for the Dominican team, having already done so way back in 2012.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2019, 09:23:26 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Smart clanked crucial free throws in crunch time.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2019, 09:23:47 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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IMO, the major problem for the US team is lack of quality big men compared to other nations. Most of the top big men in the NBA are not US players:

Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Vucevic, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Steven Adams, Clint Capella, Kristaps Porzingis

All foreign players in International competition.

On top of that, the international rules are not as biased against big men as the modern NBA rules. All that's left for the US for top NBA big men are AD, Towns, and Durant. Durant is injured, the other two bailed on the team. We can't go into international tournaments with guys like Plumlee and Lopez. Turner is ok, but pales in comparison to guys like Gobert, Jokic and Embiid.

Towns is only eligible to play for the Dominican team, having already done so way back in 2012.

Then the US is even worse off than I thought in terms of big man talent.

I also forgot to mention the reigning NBA MVP, Giannis, on the list of foreign big men.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2019, 09:27:51 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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It stinks that they didn't win with a roster of NBA players. It also stinks that this team had 4 celtics on it and couldn't win.  NO tatum again hurt.  Kemba had a bad game as well and I didn't see if Brown did anything. 

The olympics will be different because the Stars will play in that game.  I was hoping they'd win and maybe we'd see 1 Celtic on the Olympic roster.  I doubt that happens now.

Well, let's be fair - France is a pretty loaded roster as well.   The are able to put out a 5-man lineup of

PG Nando De Colo (4-time All-Euroleague, Euroleague MVP)
Wing Fournier (NBA vet)
Wing Nkitilina (NBA vet)
Wing Batum (NBA vet)
C Rudy Gobert (NBA DPOY)

That's a 5-man lineup that would beast in the NBA.   Very complementary players there.  De Colo is 6' 5" and the real deal.  Very talented ball-handler and shooter.   Gobert is at least as good as anybody on Team USA's roster.   The other guys are all legit NBA vets.   And these guys all play well together.

The point is, Team USA just lost to a team that is really, really talented.

And a lot of it just came down to cold shooting.   Folks might focus on Kemba shooting only 2 of 6 with 0 assists in the 4th period, but the real killer was Mitchell (0/3), Middleton (1/3) and Jaylen (0/1) combining to go only 1 of 7 in that 4th period.   Not to mention the many times when Team USA players simply shied off of taking shots.
Fournier, Ntilikina, Batum?  Beast in the NBA?  Did I go to sleep and wake up in an alternate universe?

Did you miss the other two names?   De Colo is a fantastic player who arguably would be at least close to fringe all-star level player in the NBA and Gobert is the freaking reigning DPOY.

I never said "Fournier, Ntillikina & Batum" were beasts in the NBA.  I said that FIVE MAN LINEUP would be.   And I'm not saying it would beat last year's Raptor's starting 5 or the prior year's GSW death lineup.   

I'm just pointing out that would be a hell of a strong 5-man lineup that would compete very favorably in the NBA.   It's got guards and wings that can shoot plus an elite big who can score on the roll and dominate on defense.   That's a very potent recipe.

For the record, Nando De Cold played 2 years in the NBA and averaged 3.8 points per game. His international stats have only gone up marginally since his return (granted, that is in the Euroleague vs ACB).

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2019, 09:32:32 PM »

Online gouki88

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It stinks that they didn't win with a roster of NBA players. It also stinks that this team had 4 celtics on it and couldn't win.  NO tatum again hurt.  Kemba had a bad game as well and I didn't see if Brown did anything. 

The olympics will be different because the Stars will play in that game.  I was hoping they'd win and maybe we'd see 1 Celtic on the Olympic roster.  I doubt that happens now.

Well, let's be fair - France is a pretty loaded roster as well.   The are able to put out a 5-man lineup of

PG Nando De Colo (4-time All-Euroleague, Euroleague MVP)
Wing Fournier (NBA vet)
Wing Nkitilina (NBA vet)
Wing Batum (NBA vet)
C Rudy Gobert (NBA DPOY)

That's a 5-man lineup that would beast in the NBA.   Very complementary players there.  De Colo is 6' 5" and the real deal.  Very talented ball-handler and shooter.   Gobert is at least as good as anybody on Team USA's roster.   The other guys are all legit NBA vets.   And these guys all play well together.

The point is, Team USA just lost to a team that is really, really talented.

And a lot of it just came down to cold shooting.   Folks might focus on Kemba shooting only 2 of 6 with 0 assists in the 4th period, but the real killer was Mitchell (0/3), Middleton (1/3) and Jaylen (0/1) combining to go only 1 of 7 in that 4th period.   Not to mention the many times when Team USA players simply shied off of taking shots.
Fournier, Ntilikina, Batum?  Beast in the NBA?  Did I go to sleep and wake up in an alternate universe?

Did you miss the other two names?   De Colo is a fantastic player who arguably would be at least close to fringe all-star level player in the NBA and Gobert is the freaking reigning DPOY.

I never said "Fournier, Ntillikina & Batum" were beasts in the NBA.  I said that FIVE MAN LINEUP would be.   And I'm not saying it would beat last year's Raptor's starting 5 or the prior year's GSW death lineup.   

I'm just pointing out that would be a hell of a strong 5-man lineup that would compete very favorably in the NBA.   It's got guards and wings that can shoot plus an elite big who can score on the roll and dominate on defense.   That's a very potent recipe.
Are you serious? You realise De Colo actually had a (failed) NBA stint? He wasn't even a borderline starter in the NBA. That lineup would be a strong G-League team.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2019, 09:44:00 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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IMO, the major problem for the US team is lack of quality big men compared to other nations. Most of the top big men in the NBA are not US players:

Nikola Jokic, Joel Embiid, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Vucevic, Jonas Valanciunas, Marc Gasol, Steven Adams, Clint Capella, Kristaps Porzingis

All foreign players in International competition.

On top of that, the international rules are not as biased against big men as the modern NBA rules. All that's left for the US for top NBA big men are AD, Towns, and Durant. Durant is injured, the other two bailed on the team. We can't go into international tournaments with guys like Plumlee and Lopez. Turner is ok, but pales in comparison to guys like Gobert, Jokic and Embiid.

USA have Willie Cauley-Stein, Jarett Allen, Deandre Jordan, Marvin Bagley and Deandre Ayton. Would have been a great experience for these young guys but they backed out of the tournament.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2019, 10:08:43 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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read a Laker fan referred to the team as the USA Celtics, after the loss of course.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2019, 10:44:45 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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Lotta of top Talent Opt Out...

not like it use to be..


cash rule like wu tang

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2019, 11:10:33 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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read a Laker fan referred to the team as the USA Celtics, after the loss of course.
Iíve seen so many Laker fans actively root against the USA because it had four Cs players on it. It was disgusting. Saddest thing I have bet seen.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2019, 11:15:54 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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Add LeBron to this team and USA instantly sweeps every team in the FIBA World Cup by margins of 20-60 points.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2019, 11:20:01 PM »

Offline ozgod

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It's disappointing but unsurprising, it's been coming for a while. Unlike in 2002 when they lost at home, the shock to me was much greater back then because it was only 10 years removed from the Dream Team beating all comers by 30-50 points a game. I remember watching the Barcelona Olympics and the Angolans all wanted pictures with the Dream Team before and after that opening game and the only team that really wasn't intimidated by playing us was Yugoslavia and Drazen Petrovic, but we had too much quality for them. This time I could see it coming, once they lost to Australia and barely beat Turkey.

It's easy to criticize this team as being flawed or lacking talent, at least they had the guts and desire to play for their country when so many dropped out to either protect their health, their brand or just didn't want to play in what they considered a Mickey Mouse tournament (which a lot of fans did as well, incidentally). I'm proud of the guys who went there to fly the flag for our country, they just weren't good enough to win at the end of the day but they can hold their heads high in terms of their effort and how they were willing to risk their reputations, health and damage to their brands. But clearly there were flaws in selection - Plumlee and Lopez were passengers and Turner had to shoulder too heavy a burden as our only big - but end of day these were the best we had available to choose from.

I don't see any point talking about woulda, coulda, shoulda with the elite players - they chose not to be there for their own reasons, whether it was because they thought it was a meaningless tournament, or because they wanted a summer off, or because the appeal of representing the USA was less than representing the team that paid their salary. And that's understandable. I'll wager quite a few fans were happy they didn't suit up either, because then they are fresh for the NBA which is what they're really interested in. In a sport where our professional league is seen as more important than national representation we will always have that challenge of getting players interested enough to risk their health and reputations for little return other than pride in representing your country. Having lived in Europe and Australia I've noticed those countries see international representation as the pinnacle of their careers, not just in basketball but in whatever sports they play, it's just a difference in perspective to the US where sometimes we have an arrogance about things and don't feel the need to beat down on international teams to prove we're the best (or in some cases we're the best because we're the only ones who play a particular sport  :P).

It's not like Team USA has been roflstomping the opposition in the recent past either, in Rio in 2016 we beat France by 3 points and that was only because Klay went into beast mode and scored 30 points and we had KD, Kyrie and a whole bunch of other All Stars. We beat Serbia by 3 points in the prelim rounds as well, and beat Spain by 6. The world is catching up. Back in 1992 there were 26 foreign born players in the NBA and a number of those (Ewing, Olajuwon) ended up playing for the US anyway. Last year there were 118 foreign born players in the NBA. The gap is closing and the fear factor has been gone for a while. And in a win or go home type tournament it comes down to who plays well on the day. In this case we fell short.

I think the guys who showed up to play can hold their heads high, they competed and that's all that could be asked of them. Just weren't good enough to win. The one sad thing is that they most likely won't get to make amends next year - I'm guessing the Team USA lineup will be considerably different to the one that went to this World Cup. It would be nice to see some kind of vindication story for this Team USA, and for our Celtics. But that's the way the cookie crumbles.



« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:12:57 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2019, 08:37:09 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Add LeBron to this team and USA instantly sweeps every team in the FIBA World Cup by margins of 20-60 points.
Even Anthony Davis would have done the trick.

Re: The end of an era: Team USA crumbles against France
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2019, 08:57:57 AM »

Offline OhioGreen

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Our team had NO top level talent, and unfortunately with our core of Celtics players, should remind us that neither does our Celtic team!  About six good players but no elite players capable of taking us to a championship.  Gonna be the year of the rookies IMO.  Lots of fun watching, but not as much about doing big things.  Maybe in a couple of years, if we can convince an elite player or two to come to Boston!