Author Topic: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump  (Read 1871 times)

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Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2019, 07:50:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The issue at hand isn't whether administrations leak info, just about every administration has whether by mistake or by design. So bringing up past administrations leaks is just whataboutism.

And the reason for that is the issue at hand is that entire parts of the government and military don't trust this president, whether it be to make proper decisions or to keep information secret. This is not some new information. It's been reported as being that way for the better part of two years.

When entire parts of the intelligence, justice, state and military departments of government have no confidence in their leader, how can the American people? I think this is something that goes beyond Republican and Democrat. I think it goes to the core of who you have more faith and confidence in to lead this country properly.


Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2019, 08:01:43 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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I think it goes to the core of who you have more faith and confidence in to lead this country properly.




when stopped praying in schools..and In God We Trust erased from our money thangs dun changed

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2019, 08:17:20 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Consequences of Trump's reckless and careless attitude towards U.S. intelligence community:

https://www.insider.com/us-extracted-russia-spy-trump-classified-info-oval-office-2019-9

Quote
A person directly involved with the discussions told the outlet the US was concerned that Trump and his administration routinely mishandled classified intelligence and that their actions could expose the covert source as a spy within the Russian government.

That damage this guy has done on so many fronts will take decades to repair.
But her emails...

Both were pretty sloppy.

She shouldn’t be, and isn’t, President. He shouldn’t be, but is, President. 

We need to fix this, yet many (including you) will still vote for him.

Yes, I will. I find policy to be more important than personality. 

If it were just personality, I'd despise him still, but I'd be far more comfortable than I am.  This thread speaks to competence. 

Is competence more important than policy?  The combination of incompetence and narcissism scares the heck out of me.
I can't think of many presidential candidates who have a chance of winning that don't fit the description of both inept and narcissistic, to be frank.

I really can’t say I agree with that.  I see Trump as unique. Presidential candidates almost by definition have egos that stretch too far (belief that you are capable of being, or should be, the most powerful person in the world would be too daunting for most “normal” people). But there is pathological narcissism that is embedded in personality that virtually prohibits a person from the ability (is unable to) to see anything from a view that is not centered on oneself or not in service of ones own immediate needs. It compels. It drives narcissistic impulses that are often thoughtlessly/carelessly at the expense of others.  I don’t see evidence of this (yet anyway) in other candidates, I see it almost daily in Trump.

Re: incompetence: I see Trump again in a league of his own. 

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2019, 09:45:33 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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when stopped praying in schools..and In God We Trust erased from our money thangs dun changed

You might want to double check that money, Thumper.



On the main topic, yes this is egregiously bad. The CIA cannot trust the President to not run his mouth off and compromise their most trusted sources - which means they likely get killed at a minimum - so we lose a decades-old source of high-level information. It's appalling and the only actual event that's even close to precedent is the W admin outing Valerie Plame because her husband called out their lies to get into Iraq. Expect more of this, of course, it's Trump over party over country now, and intel's in the third tier along with just about everything else that matters.

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2019, 10:31:41 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Source=CNN=BS

Now do Benghazi.
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Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2019, 10:54:22 PM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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The issue at hand isn't whether administrations leak info, just about every administration has whether by mistake or by design. So bringing up past administrations leaks is just whataboutism.

And the reason for that is the issue at hand is that entire parts of the government and military don't trust this president, whether it be to make proper decisions or to keep information secret. This is not some new information. It's been reported as being that way for the better part of two years.

When entire parts of the intelligence, justice, state and military departments of government have no confidence in their leader, how can the American people? I think this is something that goes beyond Republican and Democrat. I think it goes to the core of who you have more faith and confidence in to lead this country properly.
Trump is dumb as a rock, but to be fair, look at the last few Republican presidents. Bumbling idiocy is basically a requirement.

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2019, 07:05:01 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
When entire parts of the intelligence, justice, state and military departments of government have no confidence in their leader, how can the American people?

Very valid point, but other leaders have lost confidence in presidents but my point is none of them has had to face this vitriol.  Believe me, I can post the details when I say other presidents have had issues with it.

You should never have blind confidence in any leader or party.   The human race is fallible.  Some are more obvious like Pres. Trump.   Some can hide it really well like Pres. Kennedy.  I also don't have blind faith in the CIA  in general and they did bad things quite a bit.

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2019, 07:28:24 AM »

Offline TDurden

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Quote
When entire parts of the intelligence, justice, state and military departments of government have no confidence in their leader, how can the American people?

Very valid point, but other leaders have lost confidence in presidents but my point is none of them has had to face this vitriol.  Believe me, I can post the details when I say other presidents have had issues with it.

You should never have blind confidence in any leader or party.   The human race is fallible.  Some are more obvious like Pres. Trump.   Some can hide it really well like Pres. Kennedy.  I also don't have blind faith in the CIA  in general and they did bad things quite a bit.

Agreed, it took a unique blend of corruption despotism and incompetence to garner this much criticism.

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 07:51:09 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
When entire parts of the intelligence, justice, state and military departments of government have no confidence in their leader, how can the American people? I think this is something that goes beyond Republican and Democrat. I think it goes to the core of who you have more faith and confidence in to lead this country properl

The problem is that those agencies haven’t exactly showered themselves in glory, and that allows Trump to deflect. If the FBI is crooked at the top, and the FBI opposes Trump, therefore Trump must be good.

And, the FBI was crooked at the top. Not “deep state” stuff, but rather full of petty, self-serving bureaucrat who wanted to maintain their power.  Comey leaked confidential memos to the press, basically as revenge. McCabe was found by the IG to have knowingly and intentionally lied to investigators.

And of course, there’s the hypocrisy. One example:  many claim that Trump obstructed justice by telling Comey that one of the people under investigation — Flynn — was a good guy, and to go easy on him. Comey suggests that this was inappropriate.  Meanwhile, James Clapper wrote to Trump, asking him to use his “influential voice” to spare Andrew McCabe.  That’s how these things work. People trade influence to serve their needs, and get the knives out when that doesn’t work.

The truth is, government is full of corrupt people. It really is a “swamp”.  That’s why I don’t think the electorate cares that much when there’s tension between Trump and other bureaucrats.  Trump is the sleaziest of the sleazy, but I just don’t think voters care that much about nuance.
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Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 07:51:30 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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As usual CNN's attempt to persecute Pres. Trump has taken some diabolical liberties and those with negative Pres. Trump confirmation bias have leap upon it with their usual vigor.

Quote
Another report from the Washington Post said U.S. national security officials were "alarmed" by Trump's disclosure, but also said this was not the reason for the asset's removal.

Even publicly there was talk that CNN's report missed the mark. Former CIA official Philip Mudd, a CNN counterterrorism analyst, took issue with the report's "political angle" involving Trump.

“I question whether this angle of the story about whether the president’s engagement with intelligence was actually a spur in the extraction of the informant," Mudd said Monday on The Lead with Jake Tapper. "I suspect there were other issues here."

About an hour after the Times report was published, Sciutto announced on Twitter that he could report additional information.

"Given NYT has now made details on Russian spy public, I can now report additional info we had withheld. Asset had direct access to Vladimir Putin, including the remarkable ability to take photos of presidential documents, and had served US for more than a decade," he said. "Asset had risen to the highest levels of Russia’s national security infrastructure. US offered extraction months earlier during Obama administration, but asset refused. Asset’s information was crucial to IC assessment that Putin had directed election interference to favor Trump."

Sciutto added that his information is "based on Trump and Obama administration [officials] with direct knowledge."

A spokesperson did immediately return a request for comment on the veracity of Sciutto's initial report, which was updated to mention the initial offer for extraction after the Times broke the story and details about the spy being able to provide images of documents from Putin's desk. CNN's update did not mention the Times' sources disputing that Trump factored into any decisions to offer extraction to the informant a second time.

Earlier in the day Stephanie Grisham, the White House press secretary, said, “CNN's reporting is not only incorrect, it has the potential to put lives in danger.”

CIA spokeswoman Brittany Bramell said, "CNN's narrative that the Central Intelligence Agency makes life-or-death decisions based on anything other than objective analysis and sound collection is simply false. Misguided speculation that the President's handling of our nation's most sensitive intelligence — which he has access to each and every day — drove an alleged exfiltration operation is inaccurate.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/holes-poked-in-cnn-report-blaming-trump-for-alarm-that-led-to-extraction-of-kremlin-informant

Quote
The truth is, government is full of corrupt people. It really is a “swamp”.  That’s why I don’t think the electorate cares that much when there’s tension between Trump and other bureaucrats.  Trump is the sleaziest of the sleazy, but I just don’t think voters care that much about nuance.

Very true.

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2019, 09:34:33 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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but my point is none of them has had to face this vitriol.

No President in the modern time has been as dishonest, as corrupt, or as disruptive to the normal expectations of the office than Donald Trump. The fact that he has an entire propaganda network at his beck and call is the biggest reason he doesn't face more vitriol.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2019, 10:20:57 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I think it goes to the core of who you have more faith and confidence in to lead this country properly.



   


when stopped praying in schools..and In God We Trust erased from our money thangs dun changed
   
      In public schools? Yeah .. can’t do that, man. Not gonna work. We can’t have gods over country. That would be seriously scary. What money are you using?

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2019, 11:26:03 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote
When entire parts of the intelligence, justice, state and military departments of government have no confidence in their leader, how can the American people?

Very valid point, but other leaders have lost confidence in presidents but my point is none of them has had to face this vitriol.  Believe me, I can post the details when I say other presidents have had issues with it.

You should never have blind confidence in any leader or party.   The human race is fallible.  Some are more obvious like Pres. Trump.   Some can hide it really well like Pres. Kennedy.  I also don't have blind faith in the CIA  in general and they did bad things quite a bit.
C4E there is a reason for the vitriol. This administration has been one long joke and embarassment to this country. From lying about crowd sizes, to unsubstantiated claims a former president bugged his home, to "nice people" on both sides, to telling American politicians to go back to their country, to obstruction of Justice, to Emulument Clause violations, to wanting to buy Greenland, to his horrible handling of Puerto Rico, to predicting a hurricane in Alabama, to the over 10,000 outright lies he has told since being president, to everything he does on Twitter, he has been an American embarrassment unlike any other president before.

Former Presidents may have been bad presidents. They may have done a few bad or questionable things. But nothing like this man. Nothing like we are currently seeing on a day in and day out occurence. It's not close.

And that's why he gets vitriol and why he deserves it.

You want to defend the policy or agenda he pushes, I get that. Defending the man and what his non-policy actions and words do to this country, I do not get that. Not at all. He is indefensible for much of what he says and does and he is pathetic as a leader, making Obama look like a regular General Patton by comparison, and Obama was a bad leader, though he was never an embarrassment to this country on a worldwide level like Trump is.

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2019, 11:26:50 AM »

Offline TDurden

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As usual CNN's attempt to persecute Pres. Trump has taken some diabolical liberties and those with negative Pres. Trump confirmation bias have leap upon it with their usual vigor.

Quote
Another report from the Washington Post said U.S. national security officials were "alarmed" by Trump's disclosure, but also said this was not the reason for the asset's removal.

Even publicly there was talk that CNN's report missed the mark. Former CIA official Philip Mudd, a CNN counterterrorism analyst, took issue with the report's "political angle" involving Trump.

“I question whether this angle of the story about whether the president’s engagement with intelligence was actually a spur in the extraction of the informant," Mudd said Monday on The Lead with Jake Tapper. "I suspect there were other issues here."

About an hour after the Times report was published, Sciutto announced on Twitter that he could report additional information.

"Given NYT has now made details on Russian spy public, I can now report additional info we had withheld. Asset had direct access to Vladimir Putin, including the remarkable ability to take photos of presidential documents, and had served US for more than a decade," he said. "Asset had risen to the highest levels of Russia’s national security infrastructure. US offered extraction months earlier during Obama administration, but asset refused. Asset’s information was crucial to IC assessment that Putin had directed election interference to favor Trump."

Sciutto added that his information is "based on Trump and Obama administration [officials] with direct knowledge."

A spokesperson did immediately return a request for comment on the veracity of Sciutto's initial report, which was updated to mention the initial offer for extraction after the Times broke the story and details about the spy being able to provide images of documents from Putin's desk. CNN's update did not mention the Times' sources disputing that Trump factored into any decisions to offer extraction to the informant a second time.

Earlier in the day Stephanie Grisham, the White House press secretary, said, “CNN's reporting is not only incorrect, it has the potential to put lives in danger.”

CIA spokeswoman Brittany Bramell said, "CNN's narrative that the Central Intelligence Agency makes life-or-death decisions based on anything other than objective analysis and sound collection is simply false. Misguided speculation that the President's handling of our nation's most sensitive intelligence — which he has access to each and every day — drove an alleged exfiltration operation is inaccurate.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/holes-poked-in-cnn-report-blaming-trump-for-alarm-that-led-to-extraction-of-kremlin-informant

Quote
The truth is, government is full of corrupt people. It really is a “swamp”.  That’s why I don’t think the electorate cares that much when there’s tension between Trump and other bureaucrats.  Trump is the sleaziest of the sleazy, but I just don’t think voters care that much about nuance.

Very true.

So the CIA doesn't deny that the agent was extracted, or that the president gave away the agent's identity to Russia? 

Cool. 

Re: US had to extract spy from Russia due to leaky Trump
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 11:29:07 AM »

Online Roy H.

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So the CIA doesn't deny that the agent was extracted, or that the president gave away the agent's identity to Russia? 

I don’t think that any story is claiming that Trump gave away the spy’s identity.
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