Author Topic: Explain the Trade War with China Please  (Read 4378 times)

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Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2019, 01:24:04 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Trump has "hereby ordered" U.S. companies to stop dealing with China.

Does this mean he will stop making a huge percentage his Trump line of products in China?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2019, 03:19:52 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard. 

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2019, 04:34:17 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard.

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.
yeah, no.

The American consumer is paying these tariffs because the companies being charged these tariffs are passing along those costs.   why should lobstermen get special treatment when everyone is getting hit financially-->so Trump can pay for votes like he's trying to do with the farmers he's bailing out due to the tariff impacts?

I feel for them but if they want to end the tariffs, end Trump's reign of terror.

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2019, 04:56:31 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard.

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.
yeah, no.

The American consumer is paying these tariffs because the companies being charged these tariffs are passing along those costs.   why should lobstermen get special treatment when everyone is getting hit financially-->so Trump can pay for votes like he's trying to do with the farmers he's bailing out due to the tariff impacts?

I feel for them but if they want to end the tariffs, end Trump's reign of terror.
Exhibit A

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2019, 05:56:33 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard. 

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.

I understand your point of view. But it is shortsighted of any American President to not consider the big picture from a political standpoint and the long-term challenges of implementing a dramatic policy change  — as clearly the Chinese are able to do.

Trump makes impulsive decisions — often without consideration for the possibility that he’s out in a year, or the absolute most that he is out in 5.  If I’m China, yeah — I knew this from day 1. But as an American President — shouldn’t Donald also know this on day 1?   This is why , at least in some areas, presidents are inextricably connected to those who preceded and those who succeed. We are an ongoing republic with variances in policy that are moderate shifts rather seismic  misdirections. This is true except in the face of cataclysmic need — such as the Civil War or  the Great Depression/ WW2. Or maybe needed soon re: climate change.

Trump’s bold moves are not done in the vacuum of Trump’s thick and flawless head, but in the context of many contributing and competing variables including the one that mandates American  leadership change every 8 (and possibly 4) years.

He has stones and sometimes exciting and right-track instincts. Yet he has none of the nuance needed to be a great leader in a republic such as ours (I’ll leave it to others to suggest he might be a good autocrat). Therefore, he is a bad and dangerous POTUS who needs to be defeated.  Yeah- I don’t find Joe Biden to be the  example of a likely great President.  But like Gerald Ford we need someone stable who will come in and hold us together following the earthquake.

Btw, I believe Obama also lacked the skills to lead effectively. But I give him the credit for being a decent human being that I can’t give Trump.

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2019, 11:52:21 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Quote
The president said Chinese officials had called "twice" over the weekend to discuss trade talks with his administration.

Would Trump be so dumb to lie about this?

Quote
“I have not heard of this situation regarding the two calls that the U.S. mentioned in the weekend,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at press conference on Tuesday. He had denied on Monday that the calls had taken place.

Those still supporting Trump do understand that he lies about absolutely everything, right?  It is certainly your right to support Trump or anyone else but are you doing so accepting that he lies or is it that you still believe him?

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2019, 11:57:04 AM »

Online nickagneta

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Quote
The president said Chinese officials had called "twice" over the weekend to discuss trade talks with his administration.

Would Trump be so dumb to lie about this?

Quote
“I have not heard of this situation regarding the two calls that the U.S. mentioned in the weekend,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said at press conference on Tuesday. He had denied on Monday that the calls had taken place.

Those still supporting Trump do understand that he lies about absolutely everything, right?  It is certainly your right to support Trump or anyone else but are you doing so accepting that he lies or is it that you still believe him?
He lies about everything and he gets away with lying about everything because there is an entire news network and 30% of this country that believe every word he says. It is the craziest phenomenon I have ever seen.

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2019, 12:12:38 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard.

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.
yeah, no.

The American consumer is paying these tariffs because the companies being charged these tariffs are passing along those costs.   why should lobstermen get special treatment when everyone is getting hit financially-->so Trump can pay for votes like he's trying to do with the farmers he's bailing out due to the tariff impacts?

I feel for them but if they want to end the tariffs, end Trump's reign of terror.
Exhibit A
you are exhibit B --> you're proposal to shift tariff $ to a special interest would fit your comment of "soft". 

if you think the tariffs are a great idea, I do not, then stick with what you're critiquing about people whining about tariffs and no relief for anyone -- especially not the people Trump needs to get votes from in 2020. 

Personally, I think Trump's botched this, as he has with most things.  Is China playing dirty, absolutely.  Should the US be doing something to address what China's been doing with lopsided trade, devaluing currency and closed markets, absolutely.  I don't think the tariffs are impacting the Chinese much but do affect the US industries and consumers far more.  Other options should have been investigated and utilized before getting to this point.

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2019, 12:26:03 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard.

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.
yeah, no.

The American consumer is paying these tariffs because the companies being charged these tariffs are passing along those costs.   why should lobstermen get special treatment when everyone is getting hit financially-->so Trump can pay for votes like he's trying to do with the farmers he's bailing out due to the tariff impacts?

I feel for them but if they want to end the tariffs, end Trump's reign of terror.
Exhibit A
you are exhibit B --> you're proposal to shift tariff $ to a special interest would fit your comment of "soft". 

if you think the tariffs are a great idea, I do not, then stick with what you're critiquing about people whining about tariffs and no relief for anyone -- especially not the people Trump needs to get votes from in 2020. 

Personally, I think Trump's botched this, as he has with most things.  Is China playing dirty, absolutely.  Should the US be doing something to address what China's been doing with lopsided trade, devaluing currency and closed markets, absolutely.  I don't think the tariffs are impacting the Chinese much but do affect the US industries and consumers far more.  Other options should have been investigated and utilized before getting to this point.

The most compelling case for me, for why Trump is screwing this up.

Trump is working on a 18 month timeline. He's got to be reelected. He needs the Chinese to acquiesce to his demands. But Xi Jinping doesn't have these concerns. Like most maneuvers of the past decade, China is playing a long game, while the US's interests are much more immediate.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2019, 12:34:05 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard.

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.
yeah, no.

The American consumer is paying these tariffs because the companies being charged these tariffs are passing along those costs.   why should lobstermen get special treatment when everyone is getting hit financially-->so Trump can pay for votes like he's trying to do with the farmers he's bailing out due to the tariff impacts?

I feel for them but if they want to end the tariffs, end Trump's reign of terror.
Exhibit A
you are exhibit B --> you're proposal to shift tariff $ to a special interest would fit your comment of "soft". 

if you think the tariffs are a great idea, I do not, then stick with what you're critiquing about people whining about tariffs and no relief for anyone -- especially not the people Trump needs to get votes from in 2020. 

Personally, I think Trump's botched this, as he has with most things.  Is China playing dirty, absolutely.  Should the US be doing something to address what China's been doing with lopsided trade, devaluing currency and closed markets, absolutely.  I don't think the tariffs are impacting the Chinese much but do affect the US industries and consumers far more.  Other options should have been investigated and utilized before getting to this point.

I am a little confused by Exhibit A and Exhibit B but the premise of collecting money through import tariffs and then distributing that money back to business impacted by the tariffs is flawed on many fronts.  Not the least of which is that even after tariffs are removed, the US companies may not be able to restore their markets.  With lobsters for example, I read or heard that Canada is selling more to make up for the drop in US supply.  It is not a given that this can be simply reversed when we want to reverse it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 12:45:21 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2019, 01:33:56 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard.

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.
yeah, no.

The American consumer is paying these tariffs because the companies being charged these tariffs are passing along those costs.   why should lobstermen get special treatment when everyone is getting hit financially-->so Trump can pay for votes like he's trying to do with the farmers he's bailing out due to the tariff impacts?

I feel for them but if they want to end the tariffs, end Trump's reign of terror.
Exhibit A
you are exhibit B --> you're proposal to shift tariff $ to a special interest would fit your comment of "soft". 

if you think the tariffs are a great idea, I do not, then stick with what you're critiquing about people whining about tariffs and no relief for anyone -- especially not the people Trump needs to get votes from in 2020. 

Personally, I think Trump's botched this, as he has with most things.  Is China playing dirty, absolutely.  Should the US be doing something to address what China's been doing with lopsided trade, devaluing currency and closed markets, absolutely.  I don't think the tariffs are impacting the Chinese much but do affect the US industries and consumers far more.  Other options should have been investigated and utilized before getting to this point.

I am a little confused by Exhibit A and Exhibit B but the premise of collecting money through import tariffs and then distributing that money back to business impacted by the tariffs is flawed on many fronts.  Not the least of which is that even after tariffs are removed, the US companies may not be able to restore their markets.  With lobsters for example, I read or heard that Canada is selling more to make up for the drop in US supply.  It is not a given that this can be simply reversed when we want to reverse it.
his calling me Exhibit A was his way of mocking my response.

I fully agree with your point that US companies/agriculture taking a hit from these tariffs have no guarantee they'll get back their marketshare if the tariffs are lifted.  Prime example of why I disagree with tariffs being wielded by Trump. 

Re: Explain the Trade War with China Please
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2019, 01:40:47 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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U.S. lobstermen taking it on the chin:

https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/supply-trade/maine-s-lobster-exports-to-china-plunge-84-percent-in-wake-of-trade-war

Meanwhile, Canada exports of lobsters to China have jumped way up as China simply turned to them for supply.   

Is Susan Collins hearing from her constituents?

This is the exact line of thinking the Chinese are counting on.  Americans are soft and all about instant gratification.  Can't stand a little pain and have no collective will to stand against them.  Trump should just give some of the tariff $ to them if they are being hit hard.

China clearly intends to wait out Trump in hopes Biden gets elected and it will be back to business as normal for decades until someone with a spine takes office again.
yeah, no.

The American consumer is paying these tariffs because the companies being charged these tariffs are passing along those costs.   why should lobstermen get special treatment when everyone is getting hit financially-->so Trump can pay for votes like he's trying to do with the farmers he's bailing out due to the tariff impacts?

I feel for them but if they want to end the tariffs, end Trump's reign of terror.
Exhibit A
you are exhibit B --> you're proposal to shift tariff $ to a special interest would fit your comment of "soft". 

if you think the tariffs are a great idea, I do not, then stick with what you're critiquing about people whining about tariffs and no relief for anyone -- especially not the people Trump needs to get votes from in 2020. 

Personally, I think Trump's botched this, as he has with most things.  Is China playing dirty, absolutely.  Should the US be doing something to address what China's been doing with lopsided trade, devaluing currency and closed markets, absolutely.  I don't think the tariffs are impacting the Chinese much but do affect the US industries and consumers far more.  Other options should have been investigated and utilized before getting to this point.

The most compelling case for me, for why Trump is screwing this up.

Trump is working on a 18 month timeline. He's got to be reelected. He needs the Chinese to acquiesce to his demands. But Xi Jinping doesn't have these concerns. Like most maneuvers of the past decade, China is playing a long game, while the US's interests are much more immediate.
You expressed much more succinctly what I tried express before. If we had a POTUS who saw value in thinking before acting rather than overvaluing his ‘gut’, perhaps he would have known that China can/will play long game and perhaps this knowledge would have influenced his strategy.   His ignorance is blatant in this one: “It will be easy”.