Author Topic: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971  (Read 2036 times)

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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2019, 07:59:02 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Its almost like having racist policies wasnt enough for people to know he’s racist, they needed explicitly racist language as well, and even then they will make excuses. The father of the modern conservative party was racist, was always racist, and set the path for the party to be inextricably bound to racism.

Conservatism isn’t a racist ideology, and the policies most often cited as racist — welfare reform, the war on drugs — aren’t racist, either.
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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2019, 08:56:09 PM »

Offline jambr380

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People forget, intentionally or not that Muhammad Ali met with Klan and stated that Black and White people don’t mix, blacks should only marry blacks and whites should only marry whites.

https://youtu.be/HqiWFLsgVi4

Here’s an interview in 1971 Britain, where he publicly talks about the same idea.

Perhaps if black people had widely been accepted by white people, his opinion would have been different. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of black people still felt this way to this day. When so much hatred is spewed upon you by another race, it is much easier to push back rather than trying to come together. This is why somebody like MLK is so revered.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2019, 09:10:25 PM »

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Its almost like having racist policies wasnt enough for people to know he’s racist, they needed explicitly racist language as well, and even then they will make excuses. The father of the modern conservative party was racist, was always racist, and set the path for the party to be inextricably bound to racism.

Conservatism isn’t a racist ideology, and the policies most often cited as racist — welfare reform, the war on drugs — aren’t racist, either.

Sure, they just function as racist, with racist outcomes, and are motivated by racism at their origin, but not racist. Whatever.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2019, 09:35:10 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Wait you mean to tell me the guy who pushed gun control once Black Panthers started open carrying, began his Presidential campaign by extolling "states' rights" in a town known only for murdering 3 civil rights workers, and exploited resentment of mythical "welfare queens" and "young bucks" had some racist ideas?  :o :o :o

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2019, 09:36:39 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Its almost like having racist policies wasnt enough for people to know he’s racist, they needed explicitly racist language as well, and even then they will make excuses. The father of the modern conservative party was racist, was always racist, and set the path for the party to be inextricably bound to racism.

Conservatism isn’t a racist ideology, and the policies most often cited as racist — welfare reform, the war on drugs — aren’t racist, either.

Sure, they just function as racist, with racist outcomes, and are motivated by racism at their origin, but not racist. Whatever.

Probably best if you move on, since the broad stereotypes attacking roughly 40% of the country violate our rules.
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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2019, 09:47:34 PM »

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Its almost like having racist policies wasnt enough for people to know he’s racist, they needed explicitly racist language as well, and even then they will make excuses. The father of the modern conservative party was racist, was always racist, and set the path for the party to be inextricably bound to racism.

Conservatism isn’t a racist ideology, and the policies most often cited as racist — welfare reform, the war on drugs — aren’t racist, either.

Sure, they just function as racist, with racist outcomes, and are motivated by racism at their origin, but not racist. Whatever.

Probably best if you move on, since the broad stereotypes attacking roughly 40% of the country violate our rules.

Ok, so we have originators of ideology/policy being explicitly racist (reagan tapes, etc) with implicitly and explicitly racist messaging (welfare queens, gangs and war on drug conflation, etc.), with inarguably statistically racist outcomes (disproportionate arrests, sentances, etc, for crimes of similar magnitude and similar rates commotted), but because voters dont “feel” racist or want to be considered in favor of racist policies we cant point out what has obciously been happening the last 30 years?

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2019, 10:04:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Enough with labeling an entire political party racist. It is very much against site rules and will not be tolerated.

And when a mod gives you directions to move on, you don't continue the conversation. Those trying to continue the conversation have been around enough to know better.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2019, 10:24:20 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Almost as if he’s a product of the norms and social conditioning of the time he grew up in in the US

So where does this line of reasoning stop, and what does it mean?

I had a grandma, who I loved very much, but she thought a black man couldn’t be president, and a woman couldn’t be president. She was a woman of nuanced belief with women but she believed that women couldn’t be president becUse they’re too temperamental.

My beloved grandma of many nuanced beliefs was a sexist and a racist.

Maybe she was a product of her time, but that’s what she was. Not everyone who grew up around her shared those adjectives, but many didnt. She was a racist. Similarly, Ronald Regan was a racist. 

Why do we need to qualify that for a man? Do we assume that changed?

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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2019, 10:39:57 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Almost as if he’s a product of the norms and social conditioning of the time he grew up in in the US

So where does this line of reasoning stop, and what does it mean?

I had a grandma, who I loved very much, but she thought a black man couldn’t be president, and a woman couldn’t be president. She was a woman of nuanced belief with women but she believed that women couldn’t be president becUse they’re too temperamental.

My beloved grandma of many nuanced beliefs was a sexist and a racist.

Maybe she was a product of her time, but that’s what she was. Not everyone who grew up around her shared those adjectives, but many didnt. She was a racist. Similarly, Ronald Regan was a racist. 

Why do we need to qualify that for a man? Do we assume that changed?
It's a hard line to tread. On the one hand things like ethical relativism can lead to arguments where nothing is achieved, but on the other hand it's sometimes unfair to judge people's actions through the lens of what is normal and acceptable today. I don't know where this line of reasoning would stop, because I think we need to qualify it because it gives context and helps us understand why someone may have thought and said things like this.

That doesn't mean I'm trying to say it was okay to think and say things like this just because of when and where someone was born and raised - rather that it's more a reflection of the character of the period instead of the character of the person.

Many great people throughout history would be morally deplorable by today's Western standards - I just don't see the point in drudging up things like this about people who are dead. I get that his policies and figure still impacts modern politics, but we could sit here all day looking at things people have said and done previously that were fine at the time but are now not. Seems like a futile exercise to me
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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2019, 11:15:04 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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We were a pretty overtly biased and prejudiced society in my childhood (60s and 70s).  In the 70's we knew that racial epithets and blatant stereotypes were inappropriate in mixed racial/ethnic company, but in casual circles amongst "like" racial or ethnic groups, comments like Reagan's were said without hesitation.  In my childhood I remember clearly that many adults held very little back if they were so inclined.  It didn't occur to folks that your fellow white neighbor would give a care if you used ugly racial language or made snide comments or racist jokes.  That doesn't mean these people necessarily opposed civil rights -- on the contrary, I think I grew in a "progressive" area where people professed abhorrence for racism and supported equality and never would have supported discrimination as it pertained to politics or policy.  These same people, however, lived in segregated communities, worked primarily with like-races, were wary when an "other" moved nearby or attended the school of their children or was befriended by their child.  My parents didn't allow blatant epithets in the home and didn't use them. However, their friends and associates did.  And I heard it and saw it throughout my childhood.  This doesn't excuse it, but I really don't believe you can fully judge a comment like Reagan's without incorporating a discussion about the context of the difference in societal norms from then and without acknowledging that Nixon and Reagan grew up back in the depression era when racism and segregation were embedded in American life. Discrimination based on race not only happened -- it was LEGAL.   

My grandparents, who would have been Reagan's contemporaries (more or less -- Reagan was a little younger), used the term "colored" very comfortably, and understood it as completely natural and normal that the colored people lived where they lived, the Jews lived where they lived, Italians lived where they lived, etc.  They would express these thoughts without really thinking much about -- just the way it is and should be.  They would speak about others with what I would say was mild animus -- not hatred, more like an eye roll in reference to something or someone that is different.

My opinion is that we are definitely still evolving in terms of dealing with racial and ethnic differences -- that more has been pushed into covert messaging and we are much less likely to hear blatant racist language -- there is now an expectation of social consequence for blatant racist remarks where there used to be positive reinforcement for such views not long ago.  Our POTUS -- who I don't believe is an actual racist... is a narcissist who understands that messaging along racial lines gains him a degree of popularity among a populous who are ready and willing to blame "the other" for whatever is wrong with their lives or their country. He has re-tapped positive reinforcement around hateful, divisive social messages.  It is both ugly to ignore the racial element of today's rhetoric or to overstate it in knee-jerk reactions to borderline comments (I am not talking about some of Trump's purposeful messaging which is hideous in it's intent -- and btw, I don't think the "heart" of his comments are about racism as much as I think the heart of it is about his need to serve his ego and gain power -- which is despicable).  As far as Reagan goes, I was not a big fan, but I have a feeling that if he were alive today he would have grown past the use of the language/images he used in his conversation with Nixon.  He's dead and can't defend himself so I'll give him the benefit of doubt and presume he'd regret it. Were I to condemn him for those comments I'd simultaneously be condemning generations of Americans -- probably correct to do so, but I do think we have to understand the society of his time if we are to be fair in the analysis of his comments.

Reagan? You really needed this to know that Reagan was a racist? In my opinion he was. He called black women welfare queens. He opposed divestment in South Africa. Dont get me started on Reagan's anti-black and anti-african policies.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2019, 11:22:31 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Wait you mean to tell me the guy who pushed gun control once Black Panthers started open carrying, began his Presidential campaign by extolling "states' rights" in a town known only for murdering 3 civil rights workers, and exploited resentment of mythical "welfare queens" and "young bucks" had some racist ideas?  :o :o :o

I sure didnt need these tapes to know that Reagan was a racist in my opinion. There is so much evidence of this. He called asylum seekers from Africa  economic refugees, and not political refugees. 'Morning in America' was just another version of #MAGA.

Democrats drank the Reagan KoolAide and allow him to be 'canonized' while a much better man Jim Carter gets excoriated by the right till this day.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2019, 11:26:21 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/

Quote
The day after the United Nations voted to recognize the People’s Republic of China, then–California Governor Ronald Reagan phoned President Richard Nixon at the White House and vented his frustration at the delegates who had sided against the United States. “Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did,” Reagan said. “Yeah,” Nixon interjected. Reagan forged ahead with his complaint: “To see those, those monkeys from those African countries—[dang] them, they’re still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Nixon gave a huge laugh.

The pundits are going to go nuts. I am eager to hear how this isn’t what it seems like it is, or how because someone else did something else that the other thing makes this not matter, or how really we should all look in a mirror before we something something. The political pundits on TV are going to do some world class gymnastics and I for one am here for it.

My Q is why it took so long for the truth to come out?  People have been practically trying to turn RR into a saint since he passed away.  Is it so easy to forget Iran Contra, S&L crisis, James Watt?

The truth has always been out for those with critical thought. Perhaps you mean the smoking gun.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2019, 11:34:43 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Almost as if he’s a product of the norms and social conditioning of the time he grew up in in the US

So where does this line of reasoning stop, and what does it mean?

I had a grandma, who I loved very much, but she thought a black man couldn’t be president, and a woman couldn’t be president. She was a woman of nuanced belief with women but she believed that women couldn’t be president becUse they’re too temperamental.

My beloved grandma of many nuanced beliefs was a sexist and a racist.

Maybe she was a product of her time, but that’s what she was. Not everyone who grew up around her shared those adjectives, but many didnt. She was a racist. Similarly, Ronald Regan was a racist. 

Why do we need to qualify that for a man? Do we assume that changed?

My beloved grandfather had some racist beliefs that would come out rarely but clearly. He was a staunch Republican, but when he died we found some George Wallace '68 memorabilia, so the racial stuff was probably a core part of it.

I mess up on this sometimes, but this is part of why I generally don't like calling a person "a racist" - it's dehumanizing and treats racism as an on/off personality trait. Racism and bigotry in general is a multidimensional dial and everyone's got at least a little. And what you have is VERY responsive to the environments you mature in. Beliefs, emotional responses, behaviors, institutions, societies, they can all be racist. A person, as a definitive part of their identity - I get the sentiment, I get why it's rhetorically useful, I get that it can increase momentum toward change, I get that a lot of people with racial issues will agree with this stuff to paper over having to examine their own issues. Just not usually keen on it. Reminds me of calling people "illegal".

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2019, 06:09:39 AM »

Offline Androslav

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I wont get into discussion I know little about,
but I just love this Reagan joke at the start of the clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3z3eSVG7A
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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2019, 08:50:04 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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There is a legacy in America that includes certain views or stereotypes relative to skin color.   I am actually surprised to hear it so blatant from Reagan.

I think the best way to use this revelation is not to start saying everyone is a racist but rather to use this to increase awareness as to what type of views are still out there and then to learn from that and deal with the reality better.

 

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