Author Topic: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971  (Read 2078 times)

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Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« on: July 31, 2019, 04:43:41 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/

Quote
The day after the United Nations voted to recognize the People’s Republic of China, then–California Governor Ronald Reagan phoned President Richard Nixon at the White House and vented his frustration at the delegates who had sided against the United States. “Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did,” Reagan said. “Yeah,” Nixon interjected. Reagan forged ahead with his complaint: “To see those, those monkeys from those African countries—[dang] them, they’re still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Nixon gave a huge laugh.

The pundits are going to go nuts. I am eager to hear how this isn’t what it seems like it is, or how because someone else did something else that the other thing makes this not matter, or how really we should all look in a mirror before we something something. The political pundits on TV are going to do some world class gymnastics and I for one am here for it.

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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 04:56:59 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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  Exactly what you said. The other dude will now dig up some racist comments from a democrat. It sucks to hear. It’s sad. But people probably should know. Excuses will be laughable though. You’re right.
   I’m an independent. I’ve actually never voted republican but I don’t like the feeling of siding with either completely. I like to keep my mind open as much as possible. I find Fox, CNN, MSNBC all disgusting.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2019, 05:00:20 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I watched the dem debates last night and was disgusted at Anderson Cooper. Williamson presented some thoughts to him in an interview. He seemed to like what he heard so he asked her twice in 2 minutes.. basically.. “ what other candidates think like you that people can vote for?” She may as well drop out now with the bias against her.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2019, 05:07:57 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Doesn't surprise me. Both gentlemen were pretty open with their homophobia and sexism. Is it really surprising they may have been racist too given their formative years was in 1920's white America?

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2019, 05:08:26 PM »

Online blink

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I watched the dem debates last night and was disgusted at Anderson Cooper. Williamson presented some thoughts to him in an interview. He seemed to like what he heard so he asked her twice in 2 minutes.. basically.. “ what other candidates think like you that people can vote for?” She may as well drop out now with the bias against her.

I didn't like that question at all either.  I wish Anderson Cooper wouldn't have asked it.  Let her drop out when she drops out, no need to make the vultures circle anymore than they already are.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2019, 05:15:48 PM »

Online blink

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/

Quote
The day after the United Nations voted to recognize the People’s Republic of China, then–California Governor Ronald Reagan phoned President Richard Nixon at the White House and vented his frustration at the delegates who had sided against the United States. “Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did,” Reagan said. “Yeah,” Nixon interjected. Reagan forged ahead with his complaint: “To see those, those monkeys from those African countries—[dang] them, they’re still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Nixon gave a huge laugh.

The pundits are going to go nuts. I am eager to hear how this isn’t what it seems like it is, or how because someone else did something else that the other thing makes this not matter, or how really we should all look in a mirror before we something something. The political pundits on TV are going to do some world class gymnastics and I for one am here for it.

My Q is why it took so long for the truth to come out?  People have been practically trying to turn RR into a saint since he passed away.  Is it so easy to forget Iran Contra, S&L crisis, James Watt? 

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2019, 05:28:44 PM »

Offline jambr380

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My Q is why it took so long for the truth to come out?  People have been practically trying to turn RR into a saint since he passed away.  Is it so easy to forget Iran Contra, S&L crisis, James Watt? 

Yeah, good question. Reminds me of the great NOFX song, "Ronnie and Mags"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8FQTucDxi8

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2019, 05:58:06 PM »

Online Roy H.

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1971 was a different era, unfortunately.  LBJ was a racist, JFK harbored prejudices against interracial marriage, etc. No idea about Ford and Carter, but my guess is that at least once they used racist language or supported racist policies, too.
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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2019, 06:24:38 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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We were a pretty overtly biased and prejudiced society in my childhood (60s and 70s).  In the 70's we knew that racial epithets and blatant stereotypes were inappropriate in mixed racial/ethnic company, but in casual circles amongst "like" racial or ethnic groups, comments like Reagan's were said without hesitation.  In my childhood I remember clearly that many adults held very little back if they were so inclined.  It didn't occur to folks that your fellow white neighbor would give a care if you used ugly racial language or made snide comments or racist jokes.  That doesn't mean these people necessarily opposed civil rights -- on the contrary, I think I grew in a "progressive" area where people professed abhorrence for racism and supported equality and never would have supported discrimination as it pertained to politics or policy.  These same people, however, lived in segregated communities, worked primarily with like-races, were wary when an "other" moved nearby or attended the school of their children or was befriended by their child.  My parents didn't allow blatant epithets in the home and didn't use them. However, their friends and associates did.  And I heard it and saw it throughout my childhood.  This doesn't excuse it, but I really don't believe you can fully judge a comment like Reagan's without incorporating a discussion about the context of the difference in societal norms from then and without acknowledging that Nixon and Reagan grew up back in the depression era when racism and segregation were embedded in American life. Discrimination based on race not only happened -- it was LEGAL.   

My grandparents, who would have been Reagan's contemporaries (more or less -- Reagan was a little younger), used the term "colored" very comfortably, and understood it as completely natural and normal that the colored people lived where they lived, the Jews lived where they lived, Italians lived where they lived, etc.  They would express these thoughts without really thinking much about -- just the way it is and should be.  They would speak about others with what I would say was mild animus -- not hatred, more like an eye roll in reference to something or someone that is different.

My opinion is that we are definitely still evolving in terms of dealing with racial and ethnic differences -- that more has been pushed into covert messaging and we are much less likely to hear blatant racist language -- there is now an expectation of social consequence for blatant racist remarks where there used to be positive reinforcement for such views not long ago.  Our POTUS -- who I don't believe is an actual racist... is a narcissist who understands that messaging along racial lines gains him a degree of popularity among a populous who are ready and willing to blame "the other" for whatever is wrong with their lives or their country. He has re-tapped positive reinforcement around hateful, divisive social messages.  It is both ugly to ignore the racial element of today's rhetoric or to overstate it in knee-jerk reactions to borderline comments (I am not talking about some of Trump's purposeful messaging which is hideous in it's intent -- and btw, I don't think the "heart" of his comments are about racism as much as I think the heart of it is about his need to serve his ego and gain power -- which is despicable).  As far as Reagan goes, I was not a big fan, but I have a feeling that if he were alive today he would have grown past the use of the language/images he used in his conversation with Nixon.  He's dead and can't defend himself so I'll give him the benefit of doubt and presume he'd regret it. Were I to condemn him for those comments I'd simultaneously be condemning generations of Americans -- probably correct to do so, but I do think we have to understand the society of his time if we are to be fair in the analysis of his comments. 

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 06:43:32 PM »

Offline Amonkey

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We were a pretty overtly biased and prejudiced society in my childhood (60s and 70s).  In the 70's we knew that racial epithets and blatant stereotypes were inappropriate in mixed racial/ethnic company, but in casual circles amongst "like" racial or ethnic groups, comments like Reagan's were said without hesitation.  In my childhood I remember clearly that many adults held very little back if they were so inclined.  It didn't occur to folks that your fellow white neighbor would give a care if you used ugly racial language or made snide comments or racist jokes.  That doesn't mean these people necessarily opposed civil rights -- on the contrary, I think I grew in a "progressive" area where people professed abhorrence for racism and supported equality and never would have supported discrimination as it pertained to politics or policy.  These same people, however, lived in segregated communities, worked primarily with like-races, were wary when an "other" moved nearby or attended the school of their children or was befriended by their child.  My parents didn't allow blatant epithets in the home and didn't use them. However, their friends and associates did.  And I heard it and saw it throughout my childhood.  This doesn't excuse it, but I really don't believe you can fully judge a comment like Reagan's without incorporating a discussion about the context of the difference in societal norms from then and without acknowledging that Nixon and Reagan grew up back in the depression era when racism and segregation were embedded in American life. Discrimination based on race not only happened -- it was LEGAL.   

My grandparents, who would have been Reagan's contemporaries (more or less -- Reagan was a little younger), used the term "colored" very comfortably, and understood it as completely natural and normal that the colored people lived where they lived, the Jews lived where they lived, Italians lived where they lived, etc.  They would express these thoughts without really thinking much about -- just the way it is and should be.  They would speak about others with what I would say was mild animus -- not hatred, more like an eye roll in reference to something or someone that is different.

My opinion is that we are definitely still evolving in terms of dealing with racial and ethnic differences -- that more has been pushed into covert messaging and we are much less likely to hear blatant racist language -- there is now an expectation of social consequence for blatant racist remarks where there used to be positive reinforcement for such views not long ago.  Our POTUS -- who I don't believe is an actual racist... is a narcissist who understands that messaging along racial lines gains him a degree of popularity among a populous who are ready and willing to blame "the other" for whatever is wrong with their lives or their country. He has re-tapped positive reinforcement around hateful, divisive social messages.  It is both ugly to ignore the racial element of today's rhetoric or to overstate it in knee-jerk reactions to borderline comments (I am not talking about some of Trump's purposeful messaging which is hideous in it's intent -- and btw, I don't think the "heart" of his comments are about racism as much as I think the heart of it is about his need to serve his ego and gain power -- which is despicable).  As far as Reagan goes, I was not a big fan, but I have a feeling that if he were alive today he would have grown past the use of the language/images he used in his conversation with Nixon.  He's dead and can't defend himself so I'll give him the benefit of doubt and presume he'd regret it. Were I to condemn him for those comments I'd simultaneously be condemning generations of Americans -- probably correct to do so, but I do think we have to understand the society of his time if we are to be fair in the analysis of his comments. 


I agree to some degree what you are saying. I think it is hard to judge somebody from the past when society norms was different from our current time. I see it with the case of gay marriage and the acceptance of LGBT community now definitely wasn't the same as it was 25 years ago. I would like to think our thoughts and ideas evolves, which is something that some people can't accept. I would like to think that someone that thought negatively of a homosexual due to their own ignorance but has evolved to a more accepted stance is not a 'homophobic' for life.

I think his words can provide a positive discussion on how their language is not acceptable in today's time. However, I know that this is not where national conversation will go. The shame will be the ones who will try to defend Reagan's words as somewhat acceptable and will do the mental gymnastic for some reason to pretend like this is somehow acceptable.
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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2019, 06:48:45 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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We were a pretty overtly biased and prejudiced society in my childhood (60s and 70s).  In the 70's we knew that racial epithets and blatant stereotypes were inappropriate in mixed racial/ethnic company, but in casual circles amongst "like" racial or ethnic groups, comments like Reagan's were said without hesitation.  In my childhood I remember clearly that many adults held very little back if they were so inclined.  It didn't occur to folks that your fellow white neighbor would give a care if you used ugly racial language or made snide comments or racist jokes.  That doesn't mean these people necessarily opposed civil rights -- on the contrary, I think I grew in a "progressive" area where people professed abhorrence for racism and supported equality and never would have supported discrimination as it pertained to politics or policy.  These same people, however, lived in segregated communities, worked primarily with like-races, were wary when an "other" moved nearby or attended the school of their children or was befriended by their child.  My parents didn't allow blatant epithets in the home and didn't use them. However, their friends and associates did.  And I heard it and saw it throughout my childhood.  This doesn't excuse it, but I really don't believe you can fully judge a comment like Reagan's without incorporating a discussion about the context of the difference in societal norms from then and without acknowledging that Nixon and Reagan grew up back in the depression era when racism and segregation were embedded in American life. Discrimination based on race not only happened -- it was LEGAL.   

My grandparents, who would have been Reagan's contemporaries (more or less -- Reagan was a little younger), used the term "colored" very comfortably, and understood it as completely natural and normal that the colored people lived where they lived, the Jews lived where they lived, Italians lived where they lived, etc.  They would express these thoughts without really thinking much about -- just the way it is and should be.  They would speak about others with what I would say was mild animus -- not hatred, more like an eye roll in reference to something or someone that is different.

My opinion is that we are definitely still evolving in terms of dealing with racial and ethnic differences -- that more has been pushed into covert messaging and we are much less likely to hear blatant racist language -- there is now an expectation of social consequence for blatant racist remarks where there used to be positive reinforcement for such views not long ago.  Our POTUS -- who I don't believe is an actual racist... is a narcissist who understands that messaging along racial lines gains him a degree of popularity among a populous who are ready and willing to blame "the other" for whatever is wrong with their lives or their country. He has re-tapped positive reinforcement around hateful, divisive social messages.  It is both ugly to ignore the racial element of today's rhetoric or to overstate it in knee-jerk reactions to borderline comments (I am not talking about some of Trump's purposeful messaging which is hideous in it's intent -- and btw, I don't think the "heart" of his comments are about racism as much as I think the heart of it is about his need to serve his ego and gain power -- which is despicable).  As far as Reagan goes, I was not a big fan, but I have a feeling that if he were alive today he would have grown past the use of the language/images he used in his conversation with Nixon.  He's dead and can't defend himself so I'll give him the benefit of doubt and presume he'd regret it. Were I to condemn him for those comments I'd simultaneously be condemning generations of Americans -- probably correct to do so, but I do think we have to understand the society of his time if we are to be fair in the analysis of his comments. 


I agree to some degree what you are saying. I think it is hard to judge somebody from the past when society norms was different from our current time. I see it with the case of gay marriage and the acceptance of LGBT community now definitely wasn't the same as it was 25 years ago. I would like to think our thoughts and ideas evolves, which is something that some people can't accept. I would like to think that someone that thought negatively of a homosexual due to their own ignorance but has evolved to a more accepted stance is not a 'homophobic' for life.

I think his words can provide a positive discussion on how their language is not acceptable in today's time. However, I know that this is not where national conversation will go. The shame will be the ones who will try to defend Reagan's words as somewhat acceptable and will do the mental gymnastic for some reason to pretend like this is somehow acceptable.

I wonder if the balance in the discussion is how we approach the idea of acceptable v. understandable.  Maybe "understandable" given the context of societal norms provides too much acceptance... not sure.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2019, 06:58:05 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I watched the dem debates last night and was disgusted at Anderson Cooper. Williamson presented some thoughts to him in an interview. He seemed to like what he heard so he asked her twice in 2 minutes.. basically.. “ what other candidates think like you that people can vote for?” She may as well drop out now with the bias against her.

I didn't like that question at all either.  I wish Anderson Cooper wouldn't have asked it.  Let her drop out when she drops out, no need to make the vultures circle anymore than they already are.

  I was surprised when he asked her once . The 2nd time I was like,” why should I be surprised?” “ It’s crooked.”  They push the candidates they want and find ways to censor the others.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2019, 07:05:59 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Almost as if he’s a product of the norms and social conditioning of the time he grew up in in the US
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Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2019, 07:23:22 PM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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People forget, intentionally or not that Muhammad Ali met with Klan and stated that Black and White people don’t mix, blacks should only marry blacks and whites should only marry whites.

https://youtu.be/HqiWFLsgVi4

Here’s an interview in 1971 Britain, where he publicly talks about the same idea.

Re: Ronald Reagan said some really racist stuff in 1971
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2019, 07:41:00 PM »

Online Fan from VT

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Its almost like having racist policies wasnt enough for people to know he’s racist, they needed explicitly racist language as well, and even then they will make excuses. The father of the modern conservative party was racist, was always racist, and set the path for the party to be inextricably bound to racism.

 

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