Author Topic: Is free public college something that should happen?  (Read 1778 times)

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Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2019, 12:57:19 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Re: Is free public college something that should happen?
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2019, 01:03:27 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Maybe it's been said already, but we already have a program that helps eliminate a large portion/all of college debt: The GI BIll.

We don't need to just hand out tuition for nothing.


Isn't tuition more an investment in a skillset rather than a free hand out. It is essentially the cost of having a professor (s) train a each student in a particular university level skill.

It's a handout if the person getting the free tuition is getting it without doing anything other than breathing. My point though is there's a path for people to get the degree they want without putting themselves too far in the hole. If getting that schooling without much debt is so important, they can do so by sacrificing some time first.


It's not a hand out it's an investment. It's an investment into the quality of the American workforce. It's an investment into the overall education and ability to be free thinkers for all Americans in society. It's an investment in reducing debt for Americans freeing up expendable cash. It's an investment into the financial health of the American economy as that expendable cash gets put back into the economy. It's an investment into growing the American middle class.

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Plus, giving out free tuition may hurt more than it helps in another way. It will have people choosing college over a trade that could pay more than the job they would get with a bachelors.
Just about everyone that has mentioned free college has mentioned that the equivalent would be made available for trade training. This free college idea takes into account fairness for those that want a career in the trades by also providing that option to people. Your concern here shouldn't happen.

Trade school is pretty affordable as is. I haven't heard one person complain how they are in crushing debt because they learned how to be a plumber.

If reducing the debt and freeing up cash is a driving factor, why not pay for mortgages or cars? Serious questions and I'm not being facetious. If that is a driving factor, why stop at college when paying for those other things would benefit as well? Would the middle class not benefit more from this type of investment? I'd argue having a place to live without fear of losing the roof over one's head would be more of a benefit to the person than a free diploma.

If everyone has a million dollars in the bank, a million dollars would cease to make one rich. The more degrees out in the wild means employers will look for other ways to have people differentiate themselves from the pool of applicants.

The notion that a degree=financial success is wrong. This narrative needs to die. We are setting up the youth of our country for massive disappointment when they learn that a degree doesn't automatically give them a nice wage.
 

Re: Is free public college something that should happen?
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2019, 01:25:26 PM »

Offline td450

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It's not a hand out it's an investment.

It's a very fair characterization, and it follows as an extension of the original ideas for providing k12 education in a more complex world. But if we look at it as an investment, we are seeing it get more and more expensive, while not getting more valuable.

Once upon a time it may have made sense for society to create a nice place where young people could learn without declaring what they planned to do for work, then go out into the world and figure things out. As time has gone on, the economy has grown in large part by more and more narrow specialization in our jobs.

Its getting less and less likely that a broad college education is going to prepare someone for much narrower jobs. Spending $20K without knowing your work focus is one thing but spending $200K is a generally bad idea.

I think it's time to rethink Higher Ed, not double down on it.



Re: Is free public college something that should happen?
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2019, 01:40:24 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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It's not a hand out it's an investment.

It's a very fair characterization, and it follows as an extension of the original ideas for providing k12 education in a more complex world. But if we look at it as an investment, we are seeing it get more and more expensive, while not getting more valuable.

Actually the gap in earnings between those without college degrees and those with them has grown over time, so they are more valuable. Now, it hasn't grown at the same rate as the growth in cost, which is part of why these debates are happening. There are plenty of moderators but from an ROI perspective seeking a college degree remains a no-brainer, which is a big reason why so many people feel obligated to take on huge amounts of student loan debt.


Re: Is free public college something that should happen?
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2019, 01:41:27 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I look at the issue as first,

What percentage of U.S. citizens should have more than a high school education based on what you expect the level of our society should be today?

If you answered anything above 70% than the government should help make it possible as best they can and change the current system.

If you believe a percentage goal of 70% by a certain year, say 2034 than it helps budget better and won't effect current debts/government investments.

Some solutions based on budget can also be made to help get more people get trained/higher educated like
-All the highest scholars get into college free.
-A lottery system that helps make it so x amount of the population get in.
-A free government funded test program with online classes that can offer diplomas/licenses in a good amount of fields.
-A government funded test program that issues free diplomas/licenses but education sources come from teaching companies or schools.



My opinion is we need something better and there should at least be a free online education system for all. If you pass the requirements for a license or diploma you pay a fee and receive it.
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Re: Is free public college something that should happen?
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2019, 01:55:17 PM »

Offline jambr380

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It sure would be nice if we could make a high school education mean something again rather than 'forcing' people who really have no desire to go to school for another 4 years do so. I mean, I went to college, did well, and it was interesting and all, but I wouldn't say it was absolute necessary in what I am doing today (other than it was a technical requirement).

As it stands, high schools are so vastly different in the inner cities compared to the wealthier areas. Discipline is the issue that stands out the most (just getting kids to stop talking and pay attention), but even just bringing more trade programs to high schools might give some of these kids a little more hope and direction for their future.

I get that more students might go to college if it were absolutely free, but if a student from a lower income family wants to go to college, they absolutely can. Heck, I paid off my own tuition and my loans didn't even cover my costs each semester.

As we move further and further into the digital age, more focused education will be necessary, but let's face it, there are a lot fewer CEOs, or even managers/supervisors than there are workers. It seems to me we should be able to educate these people enough through more focused high school programs and on-the-job training, rather than just putting Joe Shmoe through additional schooling that he doesn't even really want anyway; but feels he has to do.

 

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