Author Topic: Is free public college something that should happen?  (Read 1774 times)

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Is free public college something that should happen?
« on: July 21, 2019, 05:33:52 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 02:44:48 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2019, 06:45:30 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....

Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot. 

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2019, 06:57:27 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

I will definitely be voting for the Democrat in the 2020 election, but I totally agree with you. Above, I said that I think free community college could be an option, but something doesn't seem quite right about just giving everybody (who qualifies) free 4-yr bachelors degrees. If a student is that smart, they will be eligible for a scholarship (and I think scholarship opportunities should be expanded). If they are that poor, they will be eligible for fully covered student loans and should easily be able to pay back those loans if they succeed.

I am of the mindset that a 4-yr degree has lost its luster. Many kids go to college because there is nothing better to do and, while it can be a fulfilling experience, it is just not required of all people. It has also gotten WAY too expensive - and I don't see that improving if they essentially just make it a government program.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2019, 07:18:27 PM »

Offline celts10

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As a recent college graduate myself, I believe our politicians need to place more of an emphasis on gearing young people towards the trades.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2019, 07:53:15 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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I'll go along with Friedman on this. I believe the main issue is Trump--his lack of civility, the Russian collusion, and lack of concern for global warming, which is a life or death issue. 

He can't do anything about healthcare--it's been done and the SC has guranteed it won't change. Medicare should be expanded to those at least aged 50. Private insurance should not be abolished, because it's used as a valuable supplement in Medicare, and the private advantage plans are available as an option (though Medicare is better). If you are retired and on Medicare, you know all this stuff, but those who aren't retired don't know anything about Medicare, and neither the Democrats nor the media are telling them how the system works.

Global warming is the biggest issue for the planet, and another four years of Trump could be devastating. He has anti-environmental people in power who could do a lot of damage over 8 years. The Democrats have been remiss in not making it a major debate issue (or is that the media? I don't know who is running these debates).

As for the candidates, the media focuses on the far right (reactionary is more appropriate than conservative) and the far left (except for socialist Sanders, it's the same Democratic party of FDR, JFK and Jimmy Carter, when the income tax bracket for the rich was  higher). The majority of the voters, however, are in the center, and they get no attention from the media.

Biden is nicely situated in the center. Not entirely of his own doing. Sanders and Harris are doing their best to see to that. The votes are in the center, and Biden is in good shape because he hasn't said much. The only other candidate  of note is Warren, who is, by the way, not a socialist--whatever that means. She's a capitalist who is for the social programs of Democrats of another era. So is Biden. And he's only 3 years older than Trump. And a year younger than Sanders.

And another thing, stay off character issues. Don't be fooled by them. They are created to get you off the real issues that affect your life.

Just about sums it up.

fantastic post.

Tp

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2019, 08:19:27 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2019, 08:56:11 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

I will definitely be voting for the Democrat in the 2020 election, but I totally agree with you. Above, I said that I think free community college could be an option, but something doesn't seem quite right about just giving everybody (who qualifies) free 4-yr bachelors degrees. If a student is that smart, they will be eligible for a scholarship (and I think scholarship opportunities should be expanded). If they are that poor, they will be eligible for fully covered student loans and should easily be able to pay back those loans if they succeed.

I am of the mindset that a 4-yr degree has lost its luster. Many kids go to college because there is nothing better to do and, while it can be a fulfilling experience, it is just not required of all people. It has also gotten WAY too expensive - and I don't see that improving if they essentially just make it a government program.

I have spent some money on college education also, my own to some degree but mostly on my children.  The point is that this type of program can't pay for everyone who wants to go to a formal 4 year college (and beyond for that matter).  There has to first be a need for the degree (pay for more engineering degrees and fewer art history majors for example) and the student has to have demonstrated ability, you win these scholarships, you are not simply given them.  If a kid from a broken family with no money wants to be an engineer, the gov't. doesn't give him money just because.  But with the right program, there would be a path for them to do well in school and "win" a chance to get a degree they want.  Experience tells me that that type of individual makes for a more productive engineer in the end.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2019, 09:24:56 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....

Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

I'm in a similar boat but frankly, I would NOT find the concept of free college tuition depressing at all.  I want my children to not have to sacrifice their retirement in order to put their kids (my grandchildren) through college.

I see it as a natural progression.   We (not just the US, but most of the civilized world) have over the last couple of centuries recognized the need for society to educate it's youth.  Free public education for K-12 wasn't always a right.  Now it is not only a right, but it is mandated.  But as time progresses, K-12 is not enough.   As the world becomes more and more sophisticated, the need for proper training and education in order for kids to be prepared for the world becomes less and less a luxury for the elite and a more a mandatory step for all.

Our society is NOT better served by not properly preparing our youth for the world of tomorrow.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2019, 09:46:32 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....

Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

I'm in a similar boat but frankly, I would NOT find the concept of free college tuition depressing at all.  I want my children to not have to sacrifice their retirement in order to put their kids (my grandchildren) through college.

I see it as a natural progression.   We (not just the US, but most of the civilized world) have over the last couple of centuries recognized the need for society to educate it's youth.  Free public education for K-12 wasn't always a right.  Now it is not only a right, but it is mandated.  But as time progresses, K-12 is not enough.   As the world becomes more and more sophisticated, the need for proper training and education in order for kids to be prepared for the world becomes less and less a luxury for the elite and a more a mandatory step for all.

Our society is NOT better served by not properly preparing our youth for the world of tomorrow.


I mean, that's all well and good that you want your children to not be burdened by their children's college debt.  But I'm not interested in being burdened by it either.  It's just not something I have any desire to pay for with my tax dollars.  I can't ever see myself voting for a candidate that touts such a program since I find the concept rather offensive.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2019, 01:19:53 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....

Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

I'm in a similar boat but frankly, I would NOT find the concept of free college tuition depressing at all.  I want my children to not have to sacrifice their retirement in order to put their kids (my grandchildren) through college.

I see it as a natural progression.   We (not just the US, but most of the civilized world) have over the last couple of centuries recognized the need for society to educate it's youth.  Free public education for K-12 wasn't always a right.  Now it is not only a right, but it is mandated.  But as time progresses, K-12 is not enough.   As the world becomes more and more sophisticated, the need for proper training and education in order for kids to be prepared for the world becomes less and less a luxury for the elite and a more a mandatory step for all.

Our society is NOT better served by not properly preparing our youth for the world of tomorrow.

I hear you, but I’ll stick to finding it depressing. I’ve made a comfortable living and I think I SHOULD pay something for our kids education, just not as much as I’ve paid.  I accept it should be free for those who are qualified, perhaps along with some obligation to “pay it forward” if you should succeed financially.  An aptitude/drive requirement should exist for free education as long as there is accounting somehow for cultural deprivation including lack of academic readiness, poverty,  poor schools, lack of positive academic role models, trauma ...   There should be reasonable assistance for middle class families so we can contribute but aren’t forever indebted, and college costs should be paid by paid in full by those who can handle it without impact to their standard of living. 

There is a quasi- capitalist/socialist quality to much of what I think is right.  Wealth attainment should absolutely come with privilege and choice, but there should also be the expectation of “paying retail”.  And to some extent the burden of contribution.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2019, 01:20:21 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....

Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

Well, I don't think schools with that kind of price tag would be included, most proposals are just for public+community colleges, trade schools, etc.

But what I don't really get is how someone could have to choose between retirement and the education they want to provide their kids and the takeaway is that more people should have to do that, including perhaps someday those same kids. I've had it easier than a lot of people, especially people younger than me, but still had my struggles with student loans. My conclusion from that experience is that the fewer people saddled with that kind of financial burden in their early careers the better - for them and the overall economy. Student loan debt, or in your case paying the tuition directly, is wrecking financial stability and wealth accumulation and is a major stressor for huge chunks of entire generations. Perpetuating it as it only continues to worsen isn't the answer. The resentment that bubbles up around this stuff just feels like crabs in a barrel.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2019, 06:52:37 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....

Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

Well, I don't think schools with that kind of price tag would be included, most proposals are just for public+community colleges, trade schools, etc.

But what I don't really get is how someone could have to choose between retirement and the education they want to provide their kids and the takeaway is that more people should have to do that, including perhaps someday those same kids. I've had it easier than a lot of people, especially people younger than me, but still had my struggles with student loans. My conclusion from that experience is that the fewer people saddled with that kind of financial burden in their early careers the better - for them and the overall economy. Student loan debt, or in your case paying the tuition directly, is wrecking financial stability and wealth accumulation and is a major stressor for huge chunks of entire generations. Perpetuating it as it only continues to worsen isn't the answer. The resentment that bubbles up around this stuff just feels like crabs in a barrel.

We are talking about human beings right?  If you pay for something on Monday and it’s free on Tuesday sour grapes is probably a reasonable response. Though your generosity of spirit is commendable, I’d guess my initial lack thereof could be understandable. In fact, I’ll bet you “get it” though you (kind of sanctimoniously) suggest you don’t.  That said, I in turn get that (despite my initial frustration), depending on the societal impact overall, I don’t want my kids saddled similarly. 

But as you say, it probably wouldn’t cover the tuition size suggested in my example anyway.  The quality gap between Public and Private would possibly become increasingly significant - something that exists K-12 but could be more profound if public were expanded to K-16.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2019, 06:57:11 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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The real issue people ought to want to fix is cost.   Student loan business blew up the costs of college, ditto for health insurance and medical costs.   They both make record profits and lobby Congress heavily.  Once the for profit model, gets into an industry the costs rise.   Whereas, it should be about education and medical care not the bottom line.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2019, 10:49:56 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Free public college tuition

This would be wasted on many who are not college material.   It is a waste of their time, and our money.   There would have to be minimum standards for me to ever support free college for everyone like a GPA minimum or maintaining a GPA for keep the free college or satisfactory academic progress.   I know people who did not work and took seven years to get their bachelor degree, do you think they ought to get free college.

Of course this policy would need to require being qualified and maintaining your grades.  It  would also need to be limited to a quota of degree programs based on needs (you could not just have everyone study art history).  This system exists in Finland (as well as other countries).  I worked in Finland and all of the engineers that I worked with were educated through this program.  All of them.  You only got a chance to get this free education if you had the highest scores on the board exams coming out of high school.  The result were very bright and well trained engineers.  I knew one girl who was studying film history.  She was a brilliant young woman and "won" one of the 4 slots in the country for this degree.

It is the fake narrative of everyone going to college for free and drinking beer bongs on someone else's dime that most people seem to have in their heads.  In reality, this program would be a benefit to the roofer (for example) if their child was smart enough to be an engineer, did well on the college boards, and then worked hard to keep their grades up.  How much money their parents make is not part of the issue.

I agree that this would be a hard sell, due largely to the false narrative.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think that the program would pay for unqualified people who had no chance at a degree.  This is right up there with liberals hate America, want to take your guns away, want open boarders, etc....

Branding -- conservative media and politicians are much better at this than the progressives.

But... On a personal note, free college does stick in my craw.   We (wife and I)  literally spent our retirement on our children's education -- our choice and I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for them.  But if free college happens, it's going to be depressing.   

When all is said and done my wife and I will have spent in the area of $350,000 for college.  I'm 60 and there's not much left.   I know... I am a financial idiot.

I'm in a similar boat but frankly, I would NOT find the concept of free college tuition depressing at all.  I want my children to not have to sacrifice their retirement in order to put their kids (my grandchildren) through college.

I see it as a natural progression.   We (not just the US, but most of the civilized world) have over the last couple of centuries recognized the need for society to educate it's youth.  Free public education for K-12 wasn't always a right.  Now it is not only a right, but it is mandated.  But as time progresses, K-12 is not enough.   As the world becomes more and more sophisticated, the need for proper training and education in order for kids to be prepared for the world becomes less and less a luxury for the elite and a more a mandatory step for all.

Our society is NOT better served by not properly preparing our youth for the world of tomorrow.


I mean, that's all well and good that you want your children to not be burdened by their children's college debt.  But I'm not interested in being burdened by it either.  It's just not something I have any desire to pay for with my tax dollars.  I can't ever see myself voting for a candidate that touts such a program since I find the concept rather offensive.

I assume you find it offensive to have to help pay for K-12 schooling as well?   I guess that's your right.   

Do you find the concept offensive that you, as a member of society, benefit from your fellow members of society being educated?   Conversely, do you think you would be better off in a society that was _less_ educated?   Full of people who are _less_ employable?

I hope you are also offended by the much, much, much larger burden being imposed upon the majority of us to fund tax breaks for the extreme wealthy.   Or was that something that you had a desire to pay for with your tax dollars?

I think most of the time the issue of school funding is falsely presented as a trade off between your wallet and paying for a societal benefit.   In reality, your wallet is already being raided for purposes for which you (or, at least most of us) are not benefiting from.

Unless you are one of the elite wealthy in this country, non of the proposals being put forth on this topic by the mainstream candidates would raise your taxes at all.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Is free public college something that should come about?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2019, 11:59:27 AM »

Offline Bobshot

  • Don Chaney
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Just a comment on the last few posts I've read--it's about free PUBLIC college, not free private college.

That distinction is often not made, especially by the detractors on cable TV. What's a detractor? Anybody making profits on college loans.

I read a story in the Sunday NY Times on this, and as I recall, the tuition for public colleges averages about $10K per year. The total  federal education budget is close to $90 billion? I don't know if I remember that right, but the point was public college tuition could be covered by shifting some of the budget towards that cost.

So it would appear that free tuition for public colleges is within reach. This would not cover room and board and living expenses, but still affordable for a lot more families.

As for private colleges, it might take some of the loan burden off them, since more needy students would be going to the public colleges. 

Of course, college loans is a big business nowadays, and where there's money to be made, there are lobbyists putting out money to the politicians. And why do the politicians need the money? To pay the media for all that TV political advertising--which should be free.

It's a profit-based system.

 

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