Author Topic: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook  (Read 3720 times)

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Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2019, 10:44:13 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Danny has to at least consider the idea. A backcourt of Walker and Westbrook would be top 4 in the league, right up there with Golden State, Portland, and Houston. Three teams that have been perennial power houses in the loaded West, and pretty much exclusively because of their elite backcourts. I would move Westbrook to the shooting guard spot, and give him the green light to be on attack mode. I know we desperately want this idea that Danny has this long term plan with the Jay’s and all the picks. However, this is a players league now, and teams are now looking at closer to 4 year runs and then needing to reset.

I think we also need to be honest about Jaylen Brown. I really want to see him succeed and be one of the leaders on the Celtics. However, his basketball IQ hasn’t come close to his elite athleticism. And are the Celtics willing to match any contract offer when Jaylen becomes a restricted free agent next off season? I am a huge Hayward fan and do not want to see him go. However, will the rest of the guys on the team always see him as the coach’s pet, as long as Stevens is the head coach? Are we 100% confident he will be back to All Star form this upcoming season? If he actually does come back strong, does he opt out and leave because of possible chemistry issues with some of the guys on the team? I hate to see the Celtics be blindsided two off seasons in a row and lose another two players for nothing.

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2019, 10:55:13 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Hello summer 2017 again where we picked up max free agent and signed an all-star point guard.


Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2019, 10:56:04 AM »

Offline Green-18

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Danny has to at least consider the idea. A backcourt of Walker and Westbrook would be top 4 in the league, right up there with Golden State, Portland, and Houston. Three teams that have been perennial power houses in the loaded West, and pretty much exclusively because of their elite backcourts. I would move Westbrook to the shooting guard spot, and give him the green light to be on attack mode. I know we desperately want this idea that Danny has this long term plan with the Jay’s and all the picks. However, this is a players league now, and teams are now looking at closer to 4 year runs and then needing to reset.

I think we also need to be honest about Jaylen Brown. I really want to see him succeed and be one of the leaders on the Celtics. However, his basketball IQ hasn’t come close to his elite athleticism. And are the Celtics willing to match any contract offer when Jaylen becomes a restricted free agent next off season? I am a huge Hayward fan and do not want to see him go. However, will the rest of the guys on the team always see him as the coach’s pet, as long as Stevens is the head coach? Are we 100% confident he will be back to All Star form this upcoming season? If he actually does come back strong, does he opt out and leave because of possible chemistry issues with some of the guys on the team? I hate to see the Celtics be blindsided two off seasons in a row and lose another two players for nothing.

The risk doesn't outweigh the reward with Westbrook, especially at this stage of his career.  We can easily put together a list of concerns like you did for Brown and Hayward.  First, there's a chance that a Westbrook experiment completely blows up in our face.  At that point the Celtics would be stuck with his massive contract and no flexibility to make positive changes to the roster.  Go take a look at his playoff history in series against equal or better competition.  It's hard to find more than one or two where he didn't play significantly worse than his regular season standards.  This includes his years with Durant. 

At least the Celtics have plenty of flexibility with the current roster.  I don't see Hayward leaving if the Celtics are willing to extend him a 2nd max contract.  A complete return to form probably means that the Celtics are near the top of the Eastern Conference standings.  If Hayward struggles again, then he will likely take his player option.  At that point he becomes an expiring contract.  Worst case scenario the Celtics would get him off the books when Tatum becomes an RFA. 

As for Jaylen Brown, the Celtics could entertain moving him prior to next off-season.  There's also the possibility of a sign and trade when he becomes an RFA.  Or maybe he breaks out and earns a max extension.  No matter what there's plenty of options. 


Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2019, 10:59:12 AM »

Offline philr13

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The idea of trading Brown and Hayward for Westbrook is silly for a lot of obvious reasons.

I have no idea what the Celtics interest in Westbrook is, but they can't trade for him without including Walker in the deal and that can't happen for awhile.

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2019, 10:59:43 AM »

Online gouki88

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Danny has to at least consider the idea. A backcourt of Walker and Westbrook would be top 4 in the league, right up there with Golden State, Portland, and Houston. Three teams that have been perennial power houses in the loaded West, and pretty much exclusively because of their elite backcourts. I would move Westbrook to the shooting guard spot, and give him the green light to be on attack mode. I know we desperately want this idea that Danny has this long term plan with the Jay’s and all the picks. However, this is a players league now, and teams are now looking at closer to 4 year runs and then needing to reset.

I think we also need to be honest about Jaylen Brown. I really want to see him succeed and be one of the leaders on the Celtics. However, his basketball IQ hasn’t come close to his elite athleticism. And are the Celtics willing to match any contract offer when Jaylen becomes a restricted free agent next off season? I am a huge Hayward fan and do not want to see him go. However, will the rest of the guys on the team always see him as the coach’s pet, as long as Stevens is the head coach? Are we 100% confident he will be back to All Star form this upcoming season? If he actually does come back strong, does he opt out and leave because of possible chemistry issues with some of the guys on the team? I hate to see the Celtics be blindsided two off seasons in a row and lose another two players for nothing.
That's where you're wrong

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2019, 11:03:10 AM »

Offline Green-18

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Danny has to at least consider the idea. A backcourt of Walker and Westbrook would be top 4 in the league, right up there with Golden State, Portland, and Houston. Three teams that have been perennial power houses in the loaded West, and pretty much exclusively because of their elite backcourts. I would move Westbrook to the shooting guard spot, and give him the green light to be on attack mode. I know we desperately want this idea that Danny has this long term plan with the Jay’s and all the picks. However, this is a players league now, and teams are now looking at closer to 4 year runs and then needing to reset.

I think we also need to be honest about Jaylen Brown. I really want to see him succeed and be one of the leaders on the Celtics. However, his basketball IQ hasn’t come close to his elite athleticism. And are the Celtics willing to match any contract offer when Jaylen becomes a restricted free agent next off season? I am a huge Hayward fan and do not want to see him go. However, will the rest of the guys on the team always see him as the coach’s pet, as long as Stevens is the head coach? Are we 100% confident he will be back to All Star form this upcoming season? If he actually does come back strong, does he opt out and leave because of possible chemistry issues with some of the guys on the team? I hate to see the Celtics be blindsided two off seasons in a row and lose another two players for nothing.
That's where you're wrong

I'm glad to see that most of the forum is completely against a Westbrook trade.  I've said this many times in the past, but his game was really meant for the early 2000's.  His deficiencies are becoming magnified by the current style of play throughout the league.  He can't shoot, doesn't move without the ball, and no longer gets to the free throw line at an elite rate.   

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2019, 11:05:44 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Aye carumba. Please don't, Danny.

Triple-double machine? More like stat-padder. His talent is undeniable, but he plays too out-of-control for me, and doesn't seem capable of taking his team to the next level. He's also a bit of a sourpuss/headcase. I'll pass.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2019, 11:09:56 AM »

Offline Atzar

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'Could' and 'should' are two different things.

Westbrook isn't a long-term investment that I'd make.  He's 30, heavily reliant on his athleticism, and his offensive efficiency is already declining.  Also, based on his personality, I wouldn't trust him to gracefully take a back seat as his abilities deteriorate. 

If we want to keep Brown long-term, then I'd much rather just keep Brown than trade him for RW.  Even if you believe Hayward is busted (I don't), the opportunity to move his contract isn't worth sacrificing Brown for Westbrook IMO.  And even if we aren't willing to pay Brown the near-max or max he likely demands in free agency, I think we can do better than Westbrook as a trade target. 

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2019, 11:10:41 AM »

Online gouki88

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Danny has to at least consider the idea. A backcourt of Walker and Westbrook would be top 4 in the league, right up there with Golden State, Portland, and Houston. Three teams that have been perennial power houses in the loaded West, and pretty much exclusively because of their elite backcourts. I would move Westbrook to the shooting guard spot, and give him the green light to be on attack mode. I know we desperately want this idea that Danny has this long term plan with the Jay’s and all the picks. However, this is a players league now, and teams are now looking at closer to 4 year runs and then needing to reset.

I think we also need to be honest about Jaylen Brown. I really want to see him succeed and be one of the leaders on the Celtics. However, his basketball IQ hasn’t come close to his elite athleticism. And are the Celtics willing to match any contract offer when Jaylen becomes a restricted free agent next off season? I am a huge Hayward fan and do not want to see him go. However, will the rest of the guys on the team always see him as the coach’s pet, as long as Stevens is the head coach? Are we 100% confident he will be back to All Star form this upcoming season? If he actually does come back strong, does he opt out and leave because of possible chemistry issues with some of the guys on the team? I hate to see the Celtics be blindsided two off seasons in a row and lose another two players for nothing.
That's where you're wrong

I'm glad to see that most of the forum is completely against a Westbrook trade.  I've said this many times in the past, but his game was really meant for the early 2000's.  His deficiencies are becoming magnified by the current style of play throughout the league.  He can't shoot, doesn't move without the ball, and no longer gets to the free throw line at an elite rate.
With the way his FT% is regressing maybe it's a good thing his free throw rate is in decline ;D

I hope he never dons green

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2019, 11:31:00 AM »

Offline blink

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This is an idiotic article/proposal.  We just signed a ball dominant point guard on a max deal.  We aren’t trading for a 2nd one just to help OKC out of their contract problems.

As someone else said, I would then be a fan of OKC.

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2019, 11:39:18 AM »

Offline wiley

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If the Celtics are to trade, I think Ok. City makes a lot of sense. 

Some of our wing depth for Adams, a lesser wing (with potential) and draft pick/s.

Certainly not for Westbrook unless it comes with picks...

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2019, 11:43:30 AM »

Online tstorey_97

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Ok, the last two years went badly. Let's learn from it, as any good organization does and make moves that reestablish the momentum.

Let's bring in guys who want to be here and play hard.

The Celtics have done exactly that and this trade concept is just "get rid of Hayward" that's all it is. If Ainge wants to get rid of Hayward and take on some contract disaster that ultimately, helps the team? Great.

If Ainge wants to trade Brown, in order to "get rid of Hayward"? He's been in the noon day sun out on the golf course in Vegas for far too long.

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2019, 11:44:56 AM »

Online Fafnir

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OKC doesn't have a lesser wing to send, they were using Abdel Nader during the regular season for rotation minutes.

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2019, 11:57:01 AM »

Offline Chief

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Danny has to at least consider the idea. A backcourt of Walker and Westbrook would be top 4 in the league, right up there with Golden State, Portland, and Houston. Three teams that have been perennial power houses in the loaded West, and pretty much exclusively because of their elite backcourts. I would move Westbrook to the shooting guard spot, and give him the green light to be on attack mode. I know we desperately want this idea that Danny has this long term plan with the Jay’s and all the picks. However, this is a players league now, and teams are now looking at closer to 4 year runs and then needing to reset.

I think we also need to be honest about Jaylen Brown. I really want to see him succeed and be one of the leaders on the Celtics. However, his basketball IQ hasn’t come close to his elite athleticism. And are the Celtics willing to match any contract offer when Jaylen becomes a restricted free agent next off season? I am a huge Hayward fan and do not want to see him go. However, will the rest of the guys on the team always see him as the coach’s pet, as long as Stevens is the head coach? Are we 100% confident he will be back to All Star form this upcoming season? If he actually does come back strong, does he opt out and leave because of possible chemistry issues with some of the guys on the team? I hate to see the Celtics be blindsided two off seasons in a row and lose another two players for nothing.
That's where you're wrong

I'm glad to see that most of the forum is completely against a Westbrook trade.  I've said this many times in the past, but his game was really meant for the early 2000's.  His deficiencies are becoming magnified by the current style of play throughout the league.  He can't shoot, doesn't move without the ball, and no longer gets to the free throw line at an elite rate.
With the way his FT% is regressing maybe it's a good thing his free throw rate is in decline ;D

I hope he never dons green

Amen
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: SI: Celtics could trade Brown+Hayward for Westbrook
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2019, 12:02:57 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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If it's SI, it's a semi-serious deal, so you have to consider it.

I've felt Brown might be trade chip with the right opportunity. He has a contract coming up, and wants big bucks, though he isn't yet a big bucks player with his shooting. But a nice player. Hayward has a kind of upside where you figure he's going to be even better next year.

Presti might go for a deal like this. Westbrook was previously viewed as an untradeable superstar, but the George trade may have changed the situation.

I don't buy all the drama stuff about Westbrook. Some of it sounds contrived. He's been there a long time, and played with some very good players. He's a prima donna--like all the rest of them with max contracts.

Riley wants him like crazy, and that's good enough for me.  Brown is overrated by some Celtics fans, in my view, because he isn't a shooter. A 2-3 'tweener.  Westbrook isn't much of a shooter either, but he gets a ton of assists and rebounds every game. He's a triple double guy, though maybe not on some deeper teams. He's a very good passer-- a real PG, and he could set up the bigger players for easy baskets.

Hayward is still a questionmark. I'd do this deal, though I don't know how serious it is. And I don't know if Westbrook wants to play in Boston. I know he wants to play in Miami, but Riley has no decent pieces to deal him for, and he's hard capped.

 

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