Bulpett: Kyrie still considering C's; C's want AD regardless of Kyrie's decision

[GreenFaith1819]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Yes.

And it looked like Jaylen played very good ball the last half of the season.

While Tatum seemingly played down to his potential....

[celticinorlando]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

[SHAQATTACK]

The #Celtics  are turning their attention away from re-signing Kyrie Irving and toward acquiring Anthony Davis.

https://t.co/nAG9X4C0kJ

They should

and when go after another guard

[GreenFaith1819]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Maybe.

If both Kyrie and AD get to BOS and COMMITS to BOS then I'd expect Danny to load this team up with some veterans....glue guys.

He'd better. No more stockpiling talent at this point.

Work your magic, Danny - like you did in 2007. Get some quality vets / role players with good locker room abilities.

Get an Eddie House (JJ Reddick?) Get a PJ Brown (PJ Tucker?) Get a James Posey....get a Sam Cassell....

[blink]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Yeah I could see that being an issue between those two.  So for those who forgot in the midst of a long season....

Kyrie started with this statement on Jan 13th, 2019:
 "The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team," Irving said.  It goes into a longer quote but that is the jist of it.

Brown on Jan 14th, 2019:
"We've got to be more accountable as a group. It's not one guy's fault. It's not young guys, old guys' fault. It's everybody. We all have to be accountable to turn this thing around."

It's funny how the young player (Brown) seems like more of a leader than the so-called leader (Kyrie).  Looking back on the whole year, I think Kyrie's lack of leadership ability really hurt the team.  Not only did the young guys lose playing time, touches, but their so called leader was throwing them under the bus to the press.  After wanting to be the main guy, the leader of the team it just feels like that isn't who Kyrie is as a person / player.  With the way he flamed out in the playoffs and him not being able to help with team chemistry I am fine if Kyrie just walks. 

I am ready for Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Horford or
some other PG / Brown / Hayward / Davis / Horford.

Either way I think we end up with a better record next year.

I wish we could have gotten something in return from him leaving, but those are the breaks.

[GreenFaith1819]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Yeah I could see that being an issue between those two.  So for those who forgot in the midst of a long season....

Kyrie started with this statement on Jan 13th, 2019:
 "The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team," Irving said.  It goes into a longer quote but that is the jist of it.

Brown on Jan 14th, 2019:
"We've got to be more accountable as a group. It's not one guy's fault. It's not young guys, old guys' fault. It's everybody. We all have to be accountable to turn this thing around."

It's funny how the young player (Brown) seems like more of a leader than the so-called leader (Kyrie).  Looking back on the whole year, I think Kyrie's lack of leadership ability really hurt the team.  Not only did the young guys lose playing time, touches, but their so called leader was throwing them under the bus to the press.  After wanting to be the main guy, the leader of the team it just feels like that isn't who Kyrie is as a person / player.  With the way he flamed out in the playoffs and him not being able to help with team chemistry I am fine if Kyrie just walks. 

I am ready for Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Horford or
some other PG / Brown / Hayward / Davis / Horford.

Either way I think we end up with a better record next year.

I wish we could have gotten something in return from him leaving, but those are the breaks.

But then Smart said blame can't be put solely on Kyrie..........same with Danny and Coach Stevens.

I know our fan base is looking for a fall guy here but I'm failing to find one.

[blink]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Yeah I could see that being an issue between those two.  So for those who forgot in the midst of a long season....

Kyrie started with this statement on Jan 13th, 2019:
 "The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team," Irving said.  It goes into a longer quote but that is the jist of it.

Brown on Jan 14th, 2019:
"We've got to be more accountable as a group. It's not one guy's fault. It's not young guys, old guys' fault. It's everybody. We all have to be accountable to turn this thing around."

It's funny how the young player (Brown) seems like more of a leader than the so-called leader (Kyrie).  Looking back on the whole year, I think Kyrie's lack of leadership ability really hurt the team.  Not only did the young guys lose playing time, touches, but their so called leader was throwing them under the bus to the press.  After wanting to be the main guy, the leader of the team it just feels like that isn't who Kyrie is as a person / player.  With the way he flamed out in the playoffs and him not being able to help with team chemistry I am fine if Kyrie just walks. 

I am ready for Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Horford or
some other PG / Brown / Hayward / Davis / Horford.

Either way I think we end up with a better record next year.

I wish we could have gotten something in return from him leaving, but those are the breaks.

But then Smart said blame can't be put solely on Kyrie..........same with Danny and Coach Stevens.

I know our fan base is looking for a fall guy here but I'm failing to find one.

Well I didn't say that it was all on Kyrie, I agree more with Jaylen that it was the whole team's failure. 

I know Kyrie is a super talented player, and that he can do things that literally no one else in the league can do with the ball, but with him you also get the poor fit with Stevens (at times), the inability to bring the team together, the throwing the teammates under the bus.  His advanced stats may look tremendous but it feels like his intangibles really bring that good stuff down. 

[GreenFaith1819]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Yeah I could see that being an issue between those two.  So for those who forgot in the midst of a long season....

Kyrie started with this statement on Jan 13th, 2019:
 "The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team," Irving said.  It goes into a longer quote but that is the jist of it.

Brown on Jan 14th, 2019:
"We've got to be more accountable as a group. It's not one guy's fault. It's not young guys, old guys' fault. It's everybody. We all have to be accountable to turn this thing around."

It's funny how the young player (Brown) seems like more of a leader than the so-called leader (Kyrie).  Looking back on the whole year, I think Kyrie's lack of leadership ability really hurt the team.  Not only did the young guys lose playing time, touches, but their so called leader was throwing them under the bus to the press.  After wanting to be the main guy, the leader of the team it just feels like that isn't who Kyrie is as a person / player.  With the way he flamed out in the playoffs and him not being able to help with team chemistry I am fine if Kyrie just walks. 

I am ready for Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Horford or
some other PG / Brown / Hayward / Davis / Horford.

Either way I think we end up with a better record next year.

I wish we could have gotten something in return from him leaving, but those are the breaks.

But then Smart said blame can't be put solely on Kyrie..........same with Danny and Coach Stevens.

I know our fan base is looking for a fall guy here but I'm failing to find one.

Well I didn't say that it was all on Kyrie, I agree more with Jaylen that it was the whole team's failure. 

I know Kyrie is a super talented player, and that he can do things that literally no one else in the league can do with the ball, but with him you also get the poor fit with Stevens (at times), the inability to bring the team together, the throwing the teammates under the bus.  His advanced stats may look tremendous but it feels like his intangibles really bring that good stuff down.

We didn't have enough vets / role players on this team last year.

Last year was a culmination of Danny stockpiling talent. Don't think for a min that if/when an opportunity presented itself (AD) that Danny wasn't going to proceed to pull the trigger....

....just like he watched KG for years, reportedly...

If / when Kyrie commits to this team AND we get AD to do the same Danny will build us a contender that will have a significantly LONGER shelf life than that 2007-08 team did.

I'm not putting much stock into Kyrie's behavior. He's a work in progress, just like Paul was.

[cltc5]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Maybe.

If both Kyrie and AD get to BOS and COMMITS to BOS then I'd expect Danny to load this team up with some veterans....glue guys.

He'd better. No more stockpiling talent at this point.

Work your magic, Danny - like you did in 2007. Get some quality vets / role players with good locker room abilities.

Get an Eddie House (JJ Reddick?) Get a PJ Brown (PJ Tucker?) Get a James Posey....get a Sam Cassell....

This.  Go all in with vets/some young help ie smart.  Or just stick with the young core.  You can’t do both.

[ObjectivityOverBias]

I’m OK with Irving here if it means Davis longer term. A Davis/Horford/Brown/ Hayward/ Irving Team, with almost any bench probably could win multiple titles. But if Irving walks and Davis won’t commit I’d still prefer Rozier at the point over Smart. Even if we Davis would commit longer term, the Davis, Horford, Hayward, Brown, Rozier lineup would be super tough. We’d need to add some shooting to the bench

Brown is one of those young guys Kyrie does not seem to like, Tatum is the one he does like. Oddly, Tatum's stock may have dipped, while Brown's Rose.

If I were Boston, I would trade everyone but Jayson. Brown and Terry were the 2 young guys who were vocal about not really wanting to play with Irving.

When we first traded for I.T, I remember reading that Brown liked the team the way it was without Irving. He was saying how Irving changed the culture or something like that implying he liked I.T better. Then Terry all but said Irving was hard to play with.

The two ring leaders were Brown and Terry, it was not all the young guys imo. There are not many young guys past those two & Tatum to be honest.

Ship out those two.

Links? Sources? First time I've seen any particulars as to who liked whom on our team.

And I'd be shocked if David Griffin doesn't ask for Tatum as well as JB - especially "IF" we can get a commitment from AD on staying in BOS.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2736523-jaylen-brown-says-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-trade-changes-culture-of-celtics-national

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/terry-rozier-openly-discusses-challenges-playing-kyrie-irving

[blink]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Yeah I could see that being an issue between those two.  So for those who forgot in the midst of a long season....

Kyrie started with this statement on Jan 13th, 2019:
 "The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team," Irving said.  It goes into a longer quote but that is the jist of it.

Brown on Jan 14th, 2019:
"We've got to be more accountable as a group. It's not one guy's fault. It's not young guys, old guys' fault. It's everybody. We all have to be accountable to turn this thing around."

It's funny how the young player (Brown) seems like more of a leader than the so-called leader (Kyrie).  Looking back on the whole year, I think Kyrie's lack of leadership ability really hurt the team.  Not only did the young guys lose playing time, touches, but their so called leader was throwing them under the bus to the press.  After wanting to be the main guy, the leader of the team it just feels like that isn't who Kyrie is as a person / player.  With the way he flamed out in the playoffs and him not being able to help with team chemistry I am fine if Kyrie just walks. 

I am ready for Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Horford or
some other PG / Brown / Hayward / Davis / Horford.

Either way I think we end up with a better record next year.

I wish we could have gotten something in return from him leaving, but those are the breaks.

But then Smart said blame can't be put solely on Kyrie..........same with Danny and Coach Stevens.

I know our fan base is looking for a fall guy here but I'm failing to find one.

Well I didn't say that it was all on Kyrie, I agree more with Jaylen that it was the whole team's failure. 

I know Kyrie is a super talented player, and that he can do things that literally no one else in the league can do with the ball, but with him you also get the poor fit with Stevens (at times), the inability to bring the team together, the throwing the teammates under the bus.  His advanced stats may look tremendous but it feels like his intangibles really bring that good stuff down.

We didn't have enough vets / role players on this team last year.

Last year was a culmination of Danny stockpiling talent. Don't think for a min that if/when an opportunity presented itself (AD) that Danny wasn't going to proceed to pull the trigger....

....just like he watched KG for years, reportedly...

If / when Kyrie commits to this team AND we get AD to do the same Danny will build us a contender that will have a significantly LONGER shelf life than that 2007-08 team did.

I'm not putting much stock into Kyrie's behavior. He's a work in progress, just like Paul was.

I don't really get your response to my comments.  We didn't have enough vets last year?  what?  How many would have been enough for you?  We had 5 guys with over 6 seasons of experience when the season started and all of them started all or part of the year.
Horford - 11 year veteran
Morris - 8 year veteran
Baynes - 6 year veteran
Hayward - 8  year veteran
Kyrie - 7 year veteran

I mean even Smart at this point probably should be considered a veteran player (5 years exp).

Yeah PP definitely matured as a leader as he got older, so what?  To me that doesn't automatically mean Kyrie will. 

[GreenFaith1819]

I know Brown spoke out against Kyrie after the Orlando game. Seems Rozier and Brown were the most unhappy with their roles and PT.

BUT - Didn't Danny give both GH and JB credit for accepting their roles?

Maybe Brown accepted his role and moved forward...but that doesn't mean Kyrie got over Brown calling him out. Kyrie seems like a malcontent

Yeah I could see that being an issue between those two.  So for those who forgot in the midst of a long season....

Kyrie started with this statement on Jan 13th, 2019:
 "The young guys don’t know what it takes to be a championship level team," Irving said.  It goes into a longer quote but that is the jist of it.

Brown on Jan 14th, 2019:
"We've got to be more accountable as a group. It's not one guy's fault. It's not young guys, old guys' fault. It's everybody. We all have to be accountable to turn this thing around."

It's funny how the young player (Brown) seems like more of a leader than the so-called leader (Kyrie).  Looking back on the whole year, I think Kyrie's lack of leadership ability really hurt the team.  Not only did the young guys lose playing time, touches, but their so called leader was throwing them under the bus to the press.  After wanting to be the main guy, the leader of the team it just feels like that isn't who Kyrie is as a person / player.  With the way he flamed out in the playoffs and him not being able to help with team chemistry I am fine if Kyrie just walks. 

I am ready for Smart / Brown / Tatum / Hayward / Horford or
some other PG / Brown / Hayward / Davis / Horford.

Either way I think we end up with a better record next year.

I wish we could have gotten something in return from him leaving, but those are the breaks.

But then Smart said blame can't be put solely on Kyrie..........same with Danny and Coach Stevens.

I know our fan base is looking for a fall guy here but I'm failing to find one.

Well I didn't say that it was all on Kyrie, I agree more with Jaylen that it was the whole team's failure. 

I know Kyrie is a super talented player, and that he can do things that literally no one else in the league can do with the ball, but with him you also get the poor fit with Stevens (at times), the inability to bring the team together, the throwing the teammates under the bus.  His advanced stats may look tremendous but it feels like his intangibles really bring that good stuff down.

We didn't have enough vets / role players on this team last year.

Last year was a culmination of Danny stockpiling talent. Don't think for a min that if/when an opportunity presented itself (AD) that Danny wasn't going to proceed to pull the trigger....

....just like he watched KG for years, reportedly...

If / when Kyrie commits to this team AND we get AD to do the same Danny will build us a contender that will have a significantly LONGER shelf life than that 2007-08 team did.

I'm not putting much stock into Kyrie's behavior. He's a work in progress, just like Paul was.

I don't really get your response to my comments.  We didn't have enough vets last year?  what?  How many would have been enough for you?  We had 5 guys with over 6 seasons of experience when the season started and all of them started all or part of the year.
Horford - 11 year veteran
Morris - 8 year veteran
Baynes - 6 year veteran
Hayward - 8  year veteran
Kyrie - 7 year veteran

I mean even Smart at this point probably should be considered a veteran player (5 years exp).

Yeah PP definitely matured as a leader as he got older, so what?  To me that doesn't automatically mean Kyrie will.

Good point - as far as the vets. But I still can't place blame solely on Kyrie....did any of them attempt to take a leadership role?

Did Coach? He's even admitted as such - but I don't see much blame on him in these parts.

If Kyrie is STILL a Celtic going forward - I'll be the first to admit that he's going to have to filter some of the noise in his life and continue along the path of growing into leadership.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

I don't really get your response to my comments.  We didn't have enough vets last year?  what?  How many would have been enough for you?  We had 5 guys with over 6 seasons of experience when the season started and all of them started all or part of the year.
Horford - 11 year veteran
Morris - 8 year veteran
Baynes - 6 year veteran
Hayward - 8  year veteran
Kyrie - 7 year veteran

I mean even Smart at this point probably should be considered a veteran player (5 years exp).

Yeah PP definitely matured as a leader as he got older, so what?  To me that doesn't automatically mean Kyrie will.

So, this year 6 out of 15 guys were veterans, or 40% of the roster. By comparison, 9 out of 15 guys on the 2007-2008 title team were veterans, or 60% of the roster. That excludes Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins, who probably weren't veterans yet but still had 3 and 4 years of legitimate playing experience, respectively.

My point is that this year we didn't have veteran mentors at the end of the bench, guys like Scott Pollard, Scalabrine and PJ Brown who didn't mope when their minutes fluctuated, and who always seemed to pick up guys or offer something useful during timeouts.

No offense to Yabu, Williams and Wannamaker, but those guys had no wisdom to impart, and they seemed emotionless on the bench. They certainly couldn't pull Jaylen or Tatum aside and offer any suggestions.

[GreenFaith1819]

I’m OK with Irving here if it means Davis longer term. A Davis/Horford/Brown/ Hayward/ Irving Team, with almost any bench probably could win multiple titles. But if Irving walks and Davis won’t commit I’d still prefer Rozier at the point over Smart. Even if we Davis would commit longer term, the Davis, Horford, Hayward, Brown, Rozier lineup would be super tough. We’d need to add some shooting to the bench

Brown is one of those young guys Kyrie does not seem to like, Tatum is the one he does like. Oddly, Tatum's stock may have dipped, while Brown's Rose.

If I were Boston, I would trade everyone but Jayson. Brown and Terry were the 2 young guys who were vocal about not really wanting to play with Irving.

When we first traded for I.T, I remember reading that Brown liked the team the way it was without Irving. He was saying how Irving changed the culture or something like that implying he liked I.T better. Then Terry all but said Irving was hard to play with.

The two ring leaders were Brown and Terry, it was not all the young guys imo. There are not many young guys past those two & Tatum to be honest.

Ship out those two.

Links? Sources? First time I've seen any particulars as to who liked whom on our team.

And I'd be shocked if David Griffin doesn't ask for Tatum as well as JB - especially "IF" we can get a commitment from AD on staying in BOS.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2736523-jaylen-brown-says-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-trade-changes-culture-of-celtics-national

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/terry-rozier-openly-discusses-challenges-playing-kyrie-irving

I railed against the IT trade. I did for a few months. Then reality set in and I saw what happened....

Danny made a tough, hurtful (but RIGHT) choice....

IT got injured in March 2017 - by KAT falling on him. It knocked his hip out of whack. He evidently didn't get it right again due to playing through it and he ended up being damaged goods for BOS

I wish he would've shut himself down....but he couldn't....wouldn't. He played well enough to impress the league and we got GH committed to BOS after that. Not sure if GH would've committed to us if we had lost in an earlier round or not and we may not ever know.

If he stayed in BOS how long would it have taken for him to get healthy? How long would the team have to wait on him?

The second article? At the end the writer of the article places much of the blame on Coach  - which he has already admitted to.

I know that CLE would love to see Kyrie leave BOS - so Dan Gilbert's proclamation can come true. But this goes deeper than that.

[GreenFaith1819]

What really gets my goat is the narrative in the media (and evidently with AD's Dad) that Danny is a cruel, heartless GM....

ESPN rarely (if at ALL) goes into detail in an attempt to clear this up......................about the IT trade.

If everyone knew the particulars (and truth) behind it all Danny made the right choice - a painful one but a right one.

I believe IT has forgiven Danny.