Author Topic: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case  (Read 697 times)

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Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2019, 08:00:45 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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The whole investigation started and the FISA warrants issued because George Papadopoulos was bragging that the Russians had Clinton's emails to diplomats from an American ally, Australia, before the Russians released the emails. After seeing the emails released by the Russians(after Trump in a rally asked Russia to release them), Australia contacted the US and the investigation began.

Given those facts, I am not sure how you can claim the investigation was unwarranted or illegal. An ally of ours alerted the government that an official in a President's campaign knows of Russians trying to influence an American election and what was the government supposed to do? Ignore it?

The investigation brought to light tremendous amount of evidence of Russian election interference and lots of corruption surrounding Trump. It was necessary, even if The Donald doesn't accept that fact.
This post might not age very well.  We by NO means have all of the information that will help to determine whether what you have said is indeed a FACT.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that what actually happened might be far far from what you suggest.  The Huber report into Comey is supposed to be out in the next week or 2.  The Horowitz report in a month or 2.  Other investigations are ongoing.  I find it hard to believe anyone can say they KNOW what did and didn't happen at this point without bias.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2019, 09:05:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The whole investigation started and the FISA warrants issued because George Papadopoulos was bragging that the Russians had Clinton's emails to diplomats from an American ally, Australia, before the Russians released the emails. After seeing the emails released by the Russians(after Trump in a rally asked Russia to release them), Australia contacted the US and the investigation began.

Given those facts, I am not sure how you can claim the investigation was unwarranted or illegal. An ally of ours alerted the government that an official in a President's campaign knows of Russians trying to influence an American election and what was the government supposed to do? Ignore it?

The investigation brought to light tremendous amount of evidence of Russian election interference and lots of corruption surrounding Trump. It was necessary, even if The Donald doesn't accept that fact.
This post might not age very well.  We by NO means have all of the information that will help to determine whether what you have said is indeed a FACT.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that what actually happened might be far far from what you suggest.  The Huber report into Comey is supposed to be out in the next week or 2.  The Horowitz report in a month or 2.  Other investigations are ongoing.  I find it hard to believe anyone can say they KNOW what did and didn't happen at this point without bias.
Just stating the facts put out by the Mueller Report. You can choose to think they aren't facts and Papadopoulos was convicted on "alternative facts" and that Papadopoulos, pled guilty and went to jail based on lies, but I will trust the evidence presented and used to convict him.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 03:31:04 AM »

Offline The Oracle

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The whole investigation started and the FISA warrants issued because George Papadopoulos was bragging that the Russians had Clinton's emails to diplomats from an American ally, Australia, before the Russians released the emails. After seeing the emails released by the Russians(after Trump in a rally asked Russia to release them), Australia contacted the US and the investigation began.

Given those facts, I am not sure how you can claim the investigation was unwarranted or illegal. An ally of ours alerted the government that an official in a President's campaign knows of Russians trying to influence an American election and what was the government supposed to do? Ignore it?

The investigation brought to light tremendous amount of evidence of Russian election interference and lots of corruption surrounding Trump. It was necessary, even if The Donald doesn't accept that fact.
This post might not age very well.  We by NO means have all of the information that will help to determine whether what you have said is indeed a FACT.  There is plenty of evidence to suggest that what actually happened might be far far from what you suggest.  The Huber report into Comey is supposed to be out in the next week or 2.  The Horowitz report in a month or 2.  Other investigations are ongoing.  I find it hard to believe anyone can say they KNOW what did and didn't happen at this point without bias.
Just stating the facts put out by the Mueller Report. You can choose to think they aren't facts and Papadopoulos was convicted on "alternative facts" and that Papadopoulos, pled guilty and went to jail based on lies, but I will trust the evidence presented and used to convict him.
Papadopoulos was caught in a perjury trap.  He was guilty of nothing else and has been fully cleared of any wrongdoing otherwise from what I understand.  The story he tells is almost beyond belief and at this point I have no idea what to make of it. 

According to former U.S. attorney Joe DiGenova, Durham has been working on this for a couple months and supposedly already conducted a grand jury in Connecticut.  DiGenova also says that I.G. Horowitz has already determined that the final 3 FISA warrants were completely illegal and is close to making the same determination on the 1st one.  Where he gets his information and whether to believe him I have no idea but if true then this will be a blockbuster with multiple indictments. 

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 06:30:18 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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This could happen to either party in the future that is why I think it is so important.   

Quote
The email exchanges included then-FBI Director James Comey, key FBI investigators in the Russia probe and lawyers in the DOJ’s national security division, and they occurred in early to mid-October, before the FBI successfully secured a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

The email exchanges show the FBI was aware — before it secured the now-infamous warrant — that there were intelligence community concerns about the reliability of the main evidence used to support it: the Christopher Steele dossier.

The exchanges also indicate FBI officials were aware that Steele, the former MI6 British intelligence operative then working as a confidential human source for the bureau, had contacts with news media reporters before the FISA warrant was secured.

The FBI fired Steele on Nov. 1, 2016 — two weeks after securing the warrant — on the grounds that he had unauthorized contacts with the news media.

But the FBI withheld from the American public and Congress, until months later, that Steele had been paid to find his dirt on Trump by a firm doing political opposition research for the Democratic Party and for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, and that Steele himself harbored hatred for Trump.

If the FBI knew of his media contacts and the concerns about the reliability of his dossier before seeking the warrant, it would constitute a serious breach of FISA regulations and the trust that the FISA court places in the FBI.

That’s because the FBI has an obligation to certify to the court before it approves FISA warrants that its evidence is verified, and to alert the judges to any flaws in its evidence or information that suggest the target might be innocent.

Sources tell me the email chain provides the most direct evidence that the bureau, and possibly the DOJ, had reasons to doubt the Steele dossier before the FISA warrant was secured.

Sources say the specifics of the email chain remain classified, but its general sentiments about the Steele dossier and the media contacts have been discussed in nonclassified settings.

“If these documents are released, the American public will have clear and convincing evidence to see the FISA warrant that escalated the Russia probe just before Election Day was flawed and the judges [were] misled,” one knowledgeable source told me.

That evidence, the Steele dossier, was not fully vetted by the bureau and was deemed unverified months after the warrant was issued.

At least one news article was used in the FISA warrant to bolster the dossier as independent corroboration when, it fact, it was traced to a news organization that had been in contact with Steele, creating a high likelihood it was circular intelligence reporting.

And the entire warrant, the FBI’s own document shows, was being rushed to approval by two agents who hated Trump and stated in their own texts that they wanted to “stop” the Republican from becoming president.

If ever there were grounds to investigate the investigators, these facts provide the justification.


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/419901-fbi-email-chain-may-provide-most-[dang]ing-evidence-of-fisa-abuses-yet

It is in everyone's interest that we don't have rogue agents with political agendas trying to decide who is president.   This could be your  party the next time.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 07:13:29 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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the way i hear this stuff reported , FBI was politically corrupt doing favors or ignoring the law for Clintons political convenience .  She was trying to set Trump up.

BTW ....American accusations of another country meddling in American politics is the pot calling the kettle black .  I would venture to guess no other country in the world has screwed around underhandedly with affairs of other countries more than the USA in past 100 years.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 07:23:41 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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This could happen to either party in the future that is why I think it is so important.   

Quote
The email exchanges included then-FBI Director James Comey, key FBI investigators in the Russia probe and lawyers in the DOJ’s national security division, and they occurred in early to mid-October, before the FBI successfully secured a FISA warrant to spy on Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

The email exchanges show the FBI was aware — before it secured the now-infamous warrant — that there were intelligence community concerns about the reliability of the main evidence used to support it: the Christopher Steele dossier.

The exchanges also indicate FBI officials were aware that Steele, the former MI6 British intelligence operative then working as a confidential human source for the bureau, had contacts with news media reporters before the FISA warrant was secured.

The FBI fired Steele on Nov. 1, 2016 — two weeks after securing the warrant — on the grounds that he had unauthorized contacts with the news media.

But the FBI withheld from the American public and Congress, until months later, that Steele had been paid to find his dirt on Trump by a firm doing political opposition research for the Democratic Party and for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, and that Steele himself harbored hatred for Trump.

If the FBI knew of his media contacts and the concerns about the reliability of his dossier before seeking the warrant, it would constitute a serious breach of FISA regulations and the trust that the FISA court places in the FBI.

That’s because the FBI has an obligation to certify to the court before it approves FISA warrants that its evidence is verified, and to alert the judges to any flaws in its evidence or information that suggest the target might be innocent.

Sources tell me the email chain provides the most direct evidence that the bureau, and possibly the DOJ, had reasons to doubt the Steele dossier before the FISA warrant was secured.

Sources say the specifics of the email chain remain classified, but its general sentiments about the Steele dossier and the media contacts have been discussed in nonclassified settings.

“If these documents are released, the American public will have clear and convincing evidence to see the FISA warrant that escalated the Russia probe just before Election Day was flawed and the judges [were] misled,” one knowledgeable source told me.

That evidence, the Steele dossier, was not fully vetted by the bureau and was deemed unverified months after the warrant was issued.

At least one news article was used in the FISA warrant to bolster the dossier as independent corroboration when, it fact, it was traced to a news organization that had been in contact with Steele, creating a high likelihood it was circular intelligence reporting.

And the entire warrant, the FBI’s own document shows, was being rushed to approval by two agents who hated Trump and stated in their own texts that they wanted to “stop” the Republican from becoming president.

If ever there were grounds to investigate the investigators, these facts provide the justification.


https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/419901-fbi-email-chain-may-provide-most-[dang]ing-evidence-of-fisa-abuses-yet

It is in everyone's interest that we don't have rogue agents with political agendas trying to decide who is president.   This could be your  party the next time.

While I think everyone agrees that having decisions of the JD being _entirely_ political motivated is something that needs to be critically stopped, if you truly think that this "investigation of the investigation" is a) itself not ACTUALLY entirely political, or b) can't be logically dismissed as legitimate, by acknowledging that the during the FBI investigation, the JD was kinda freaking out about the amount of extremely bright red flags around the Trump family's, and also the campaign's dealings with Russian agents (which have in turn led to several uncontroversial convictions), and those bureaucrats charged with ensuring national security also having personal opinions about Trump: I don't really know how to continue to discuss this.

Like, the JD went to ENORMOUS lengths to ensure their investigation was confidential, and did as little much as possible to ensure that the mere fact of the investigation couldn't be used as a political football!!

EDIT: see strikethrough above for a fairly key modification.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 07:40:01 AM by trickybilly »
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 07:44:55 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2019, 08:51:00 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Friendly reminder, for something like the 4th time, that the head of the FBI violated DoJ guidelines to announce a fruitless reopening of the Hillary Clinton email investigation less than 2 weeks before the election, and SDNY agents were leaking information to Rudy Giuliani, while no one announced or even leaked the existence of the Trump campaign investigation until well after the election.

There is an exponentially stronger case for elements of the FBI attempting to sway the election in Trump's favor than against him.

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2019, 09:14:34 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Friendly reminder, for something like the 4th time, that the head of the FBI violated DoJ guidelines to announce a fruitless reopening of the Hillary Clinton email investigation less than 2 weeks before the election, and SDNY agents were leaking information to Rudy Giuliani, while no one announced or even leaked the existence of the Trump campaign investigation until well after the election.

There is an exponentially stronger case for elements of the FBI attempting to sway the election in Trump's favor than against him.

Yeah but that was 3 years ago and Trump is talking now!

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2019, 09:21:59 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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the way i hear this stuff reported , FBI was politically corrupt doing favors or ignoring the law for Clintons political convenience .  She was trying to set Trump up.

BTW ....American accusations of another country meddling in American politics is the pot calling the kettle black .  I would venture to guess no other country in the world has screwed around underhandedly with affairs of other countries more than the USA in past 100 years.

It's funny, because this kind of amounts to, "you get what you give" but the same pundits and politicians touting this line, which is ultimately about accountability and acceptance of guilt, fail to apply it anywhere else the US has acted improperly. It's almost like they're just picking and choosing where to be accountable and where to ignore hard conversations.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Trump gets what he wants - Barr assigns John Durham to Russia case
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2019, 10:49:10 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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The Trump family definitely has some red flags including our sitting President.    But allowing rogue elements inside the FBI to attempt to sway  elections and have fall back plans is much worse to me.   It means some of them picked a side and I think law enforcement should be above politics and non-partisan, don't you?

Friendly reminder, for something like the 4th time, that the head of the FBI violated DoJ guidelines to announce a fruitless reopening of the Hillary Clinton email investigation less than 2 weeks before the election, and SDNY agents were leaking information to Rudy Giuliani, while no one announced or even leaked the existence of the Trump campaign investigation until well after the election.

There is an exponentially stronger case for elements of the FBI attempting to sway the election in Trump's favor than against him.

Yeah but that was 3 years ago and Trump is talking now!
agreed.  this current turn is purely political retribution by Trump. 

The evidence from the Mueller report pretty much showed that there was something significant to those allegations.  also, even though there may not have been any technical 'collusion' or conspiracy with the Russians, Trump's campaign knew about their efforts to sabotage Hillary and did nothing to report it -- just kicked back and planned to reap the benefits of it.   That's a long way from "exonerated" in my book.

 

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