Getting Under the Luxury Tax

[action781]

I get the feeling that even though things are super quiet right now on the Celtics trade front, something will happen.  We are currently only about $3-4 mil over the luxury tax threshold and expect to be tax payers for years to come starting next season.  I think it makes a lot of sense to push back those repeater rates for 1 more season by getting under this season.  Getting that $3-4 mil under now would likely save ~$20 mil or more four years from now if things stay the course.

Trading Yabu alone won't get us there.  I'm pretty sure trading him + a lower paid player can't either with the way new replacement players eventually signed would eventually count as a 2-year vet in terms of luxury tax purposes which is pretty close to our current players' salaries (or something like that).

Or do people think getting under the tax line now is not of significant practical consequence? 

[liam]

I get the feeling that even though things are super quiet right now on the Celtics trade front, something will happen.  We are currently only about $3-4 mil over the luxury tax threshold and expect to be tax payers for years to come starting next season.  I think it makes a lot of sense to push back those repeater rates for 1 more season by getting under this season.  Getting that $3-4 mil under now would likely save ~$20 mil or more four years from now if things stay the course.

Trading Yabu alone won't get us there.  I'm pretty sure trading him + a lower paid player can't either with the way new replacement players eventually signed would eventually count as a 2-year vet in terms of luxury tax purposes which is pretty close to our current players' salaries (or something like that).

Or do people think getting under the tax line now is not of significant practical consequence?

I read something about The Celtics dumping Brid for cash. That and trading Yabu would be the right amount, I think....

https://hoopshype.com/player/jabari-bird/

[action781]

I get the feeling that even though things are super quiet right now on the Celtics trade front, something will happen.  We are currently only about $3-4 mil over the luxury tax threshold and expect to be tax payers for years to come starting next season.  I think it makes a lot of sense to push back those repeater rates for 1 more season by getting under this season.  Getting that $3-4 mil under now would likely save ~$20 mil or more four years from now if things stay the course.

Trading Yabu alone won't get us there.  I'm pretty sure trading him + a lower paid player can't either with the way new replacement players eventually signed would eventually count as a 2-year vet in terms of luxury tax purposes which is pretty close to our current players' salaries (or something like that).

Or do people think getting under the tax line now is not of significant practical consequence?

I read something about The Celtics dumping Brid for cash. That and trading Yabu would be the right amount, I think....

https://hoopshype.com/player/jabari-bird/

I think dumping Yabu + Bird for nothing could get us just under the tax as I see us being $3.8 mil over right now and that deal relieving us of about $4.0. But I think that means we have to roll with 13 players and cannot sign replacements (which would count at the 2-year vet salary).  Which is probably ok I guess?  Wonder if someone can clarify.

That rumor mentions us wanting to in order to open up a roster spot rather than to get under the tax, two things that I think are working against each other.

[Silky]

Rozier and Yabu for Bryant and Dekker and buyout Dekker at 500K (saves about 1 mill)

Morris for smaller contract younger player and another pick (team looking to push into playoffs)

[NKY fan]

I get the feeling that even though things are super quiet right now on the Celtics trade front, something will happen.  We are currently only about $3-4 mil over the luxury tax threshold and expect to be tax payers for years to come starting next season.  I think it makes a lot of sense to push back those repeater rates for 1 more season by getting under this season.  Getting that $3-4 mil under now would likely save ~$20 mil or more four years from now if things stay the course.

Trading Yabu alone won't get us there.  I'm pretty sure trading him + a lower paid player can't either with the way new replacement players eventually signed would eventually count as a 2-year vet in terms of luxury tax purposes which is pretty close to our current players' salaries (or something like that).

Or do people think getting under the tax line now is not of significant practical consequence?

I read something about The Celtics dumping Brid for cash. That and trading Yabu would be the right amount, I think....

I think dumping Yabu + Bird for nothing could get us just under the tax as I see us being $3.8 mil over right now and that deal relieving us of about $4.0. But I think that means we have to roll with 13 players and cannot sign replacements (which would count at the 2-year vet salary).  Which is probably ok I guess?  Wonder if someone can clarify.

According to sporrac.com we are $3.827M above the luxury tax treshold. If we trade Yabu and bird for no players in return we will be $190K below the luxury tax. We would have 14 days to sign a 14th player which means on the 21 of February we can sign a 10 day contract preferably with a rookie (undrafted)... hie cap hit will be $46K... if we waive that player and resign him in 2 weeks. This takes us to march 3... repeat the same excercise 2-3 times will takeus through the season and slightly below the luxury tax...

[NKY fan]

Demetrius Jackson stretched salary of $92.3K counts against the cap.. it was so stupid to stretch his $700K two summers ago but you remember WHO had to get a max contract ?!? ugh

[saltlover]

I expect the C’s will remain a tax team this year.  The in-season goal is to win a title.  The off-season goal is to resign Irving.  Neither of those goals are helped by trimming $4 million in payroll.

That doesn’t mean a player like Yabusele couldn’t be moved in the next 24 hours, even just to clear a roster space.  But that space would be used to bring in a vet during the buyout scramble, and not to bring in someone for 10 days at a time trying to sneak under the tax.

It was pretty apparent after the Baynes signing, and certainly after the Smart extension, that the Celtics were willing to be a tax team this year.  And while they haven’t quite lived up to our lofty preseason expectations, they are still right in the thick of it when it comes to being a challenger for a title, and worth going into the tax for.

The calculus becomes a little different if Smart hasn’t and won’t meet the terms of his $500k incentive.  My understanding is that it’s a weight/fitness clause of sorts, but I don’t know when the measurements are taken.  If he misses, it’s easier to imagine getting under the tax.

[Roy H.]

I'm not sure if it's a priority.  Yabu's salary spot may be helpful when piecing together trades in the off-season. 

[NKY fan]

I expect the C’s will remain a tax team this year.  The in-season goal is to win a title.  The off-season goal is to resign Irving.  Neither of those goals are helped by trimming $4 million in payroll.

That doesn’t mean a player like Yabusele couldn’t be moved in the next 24 hours, even just to clear a roster space.  But that space would be used to bring in a vet during the buyout scramble, and not to bring in someone for 10 days at a time trying to sneak under the tax.

It was pretty apparent after the Baynes signing, and certainly after the Smart extension, that the Celtics were willing to be a tax team this year.  And while they haven’t quite lived up to our lofty preseason expectations, they are still right in the thick of it when it comes to being a challenger for a title, and worth going into the tax for.

The calculus becomes a little different if Smart hasn’t and won’t meet the terms of his $500k incentive.  My understanding is that it’s a weight/fitness clause of sorts, but I don’t know when the measurements are taken.  If he misses, it’s easier to imagine getting under the tax.

Another thing that can happen in theory is to trade Yabu for no incoming salary and hoping that the league voids birds contract in mid April and wipes his salary from our payroll ...

[bdm860]

Everyone's worried about the trade deadline, but the real deadline is June 30.  That's the deadline for luxury tax purposes (according to my understanding of the CBA).

So while everyone thinks the C's need to make a deal by the trade deadline if they're going to avoid the tax this year, I'm under the impression that they can trade any player not on an expiring contract (so Bird, Yabu, Semi, Williams) any time after their season ends but before July 1 to get below the tax.

Theoretically if they want, the C's keep Yabu for playoff depth, then trade him and Bird (and/or Semi, Williams) on June 30th for a heavily protected 2nd round pick, and none of their salary would hit the C's books for the 2018-2019 season.  So no rush yet, this should be easy trade to make if they have to.

Also on top of this, at this point (late June), the C's will have a better idea of what's going to happen in July.  Hopefully Kyrie will have reconfirmed to Danny he's re-signing, plus conversations with the Pelicans will be more concrete, as everyone will know where the picks will land, and C's don't need to be scared about discussing their players.  The C's and Pelicans could even announce a trade on June 20th (draft day) that will be officially completed as soon as possible (after July moratorium, similar to how Pierce/KG trade was announced June 28, but wasn't officially completed until Jul 12).  At this point the C's will know if they need to keep Yabu (or others) for trade purposes or not.

A couple of notes on this per the CBA faq, though not spelled out specifically:
"When the trade deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended4, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO."

"Playoff teams can trade players during the playoffs who are not on their playoff roster."

"When a player is traded, his full season salary is transferred to the team salary of his new team, and he counts $0 toward his old team's team salary."


edit - Hey saltlover's back!

[NKY fan]

Everyone's worried about the trade deadline, but the real deadline is June 30.  That's the deadline for luxury tax purposes (according to my understanding of the CBA).

So while everyone thinks the C's need to make a deal by the trade deadline if they're going to avoid the tax this year, I'm under the impression that they can trade any player not on an expiring contract (so Bird, Yabu, Semi, Williams) any time after their season ends but before July 1 to get below the tax.

Theoretically if they want, the C's keep Yabu for playoff depth, then trade him and Bird (and/or Semi, Williams) on June 30th for a heavily protected 2nd round pick, and none of their salary would hit the C's books for the 2018-2019 season.  So no rush yet, this should be easy trade to make if they have to.

Also on top of this, at this point (late June), the C's will have a better idea of what's going to happen in July.  Hopefully Kyrie will have reconfirmed to Danny he's re-signing, plus conversations with the Pelicans will be more concrete, as everyone will know where the picks will land, and C's don't need to be scared about discussing their players.  The C's and Pelicans could even announce a trade on June 20th (draft day) that will be officially completed as soon as possible (after July moratorium, similar to how Pierce/KG trade was announced June 28, but wasn't officially completed until Jul 12).  At this point the C's will know if they need to keep Yabu (or others) for trade purposes or not.

A couple of notes on this per the CBA faq, though not spelled out specifically:
"When the trade deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended4, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO."

"Playoff teams can trade players during the playoffs who are not on their playoff roster."

"When a player is traded, his full season salary is transferred to the team salary of his new team, and he counts $0 toward his old team's team salary."


edit - Hey saltlover's back!

So I guess : get rid of Bird by tomorrow. Then in June trade Yabu to Dallas or Cleveland for nothing but we would have 13 players at that point... maybe we will sign a 10 day contract with somebody before the end of the regular season...
We nailed this problem!! Lol 

[saltlover]

Everyone's worried about the trade deadline, but the real deadline is June 30.  That's the deadline for luxury tax purposes (according to my understanding of the CBA).

So while everyone thinks the C's need to make a deal by the trade deadline if they're going to avoid the tax this year, I'm under the impression that they can trade any player not on an expiring contract (so Bird, Yabu, Semi, Williams) any time after their season ends but before July 1 to get below the tax.

Theoretically if they want, the C's keep Yabu for playoff depth, then trade him and Bird (and/or Semi, Williams) on June 30th for a heavily protected 2nd round pick, and none of their salary would hit the C's books for the 2018-2019 season.  So no rush yet, this should be easy trade to make if they have to.

Also on top of this, at this point (late June), the C's will have a better idea of what's going to happen in July.  Hopefully Kyrie will have reconfirmed to Danny he's re-signing, plus conversations with the Pelicans will be more concrete, as everyone will know where the picks will land, and C's don't need to be scared about discussing their players.  The C's and Pelicans could even announce a trade on June 20th (draft day) that will be officially completed as soon as possible (after July moratorium, similar to how Pierce/KG trade was announced June 28, but wasn't officially completed until Jul 12).  At this point the C's will know if they need to keep Yabu (or others) for trade purposes or not.

A couple of notes on this per the CBA faq, though not spelled out specifically:
"When the trade deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended4, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO."

"Playoff teams can trade players during the playoffs who are not on their playoff roster."

"When a player is traded, his full season salary is transferred to the team salary of his new team, and he counts $0 toward his old team's team salary."


edit - Hey saltlover's back!

Only sort of, and only until 10 or so tomorrow morning, after which I will disappear under my work rock until mid May or so.  I conveniently had scheduled a day off the day before the trade deadline tho!

[RodyTur10]

Priority should be to improve our chances at a championship.

The Celtics have a chance to win it all this year, although not a great one.

But I don't see why we should be inferior to the Bucks, Raptors, 76ers, Nuggets, Rockets, Thunder, Spurs or Trail Blazers as challenger of the Warriors.

Make a move to help the team.

[Fierce1]

I get the feeling that even though things are super quiet right now on the Celtics trade front, something will happen.  We are currently only about $3-4 mil over the luxury tax threshold and expect to be tax payers for years to come starting next season.  I think it makes a lot of sense to push back those repeater rates for 1 more season by getting under this season.  Getting that $3-4 mil under now would likely save ~$20 mil or more four years from now if things stay the course.

Trading Yabu alone won't get us there.  I'm pretty sure trading him + a lower paid player can't either with the way new replacement players eventually signed would eventually count as a 2-year vet in terms of luxury tax purposes which is pretty close to our current players' salaries (or something like that).

Or do people think getting under the tax line now is not of significant practical consequence?

Celts don't need to get under the tax line now.

What's more important is Ainge improving the Celts to have a better chance of winning a championship this year.