Kyrie ranked 25; Hayward ranked 20

[Phantom255x]

Kyrie Rank: #25

Kyrie Age: 25

 

But honestly I'd probably bump him up towards 19-20, and Hayward to around 16-18. Hayward had a great season being in an extremely tough West and led Utah to a #4 seed and 1 playoff series win (hell Utah would have been the #2 in the East with that logic).

[JBcat]

I'd love for someone to find the rankings of Paul, Ray, and KG prior to the 07-08 season for comparison.

[max215]

I'd love for someone to find the rankings of Paul, Ray, and KG prior to the 07-08 season for comparison.

Closest thing I could find: http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

KG was a much bigger get than Kyrie or Hayward.

[Moranis]

I agree with Roy that both should be inside the top 20, but not like way inside.

I realize the dissension is with Kyrie being at #25, but seeing Hayward at #20 while Butler and George come strolling in at #11 and #13, respectively, is a little annoying.

I guess the Cs have the all-underrated team (Horford is the definition of this)...so that is cool.

George and Butler are better than Hayward

George is.  I think Hayward will be better than Butler this season; that said, I'm not high on Butler - Bradley won the head to head matchup against him in the playoffs let's not forget...

Bradley averaged 16/4/3/1.3/0.2.  Butler averaged 22.7/7.3/4.3/1.7/0.8.  Bradley shot better from 2 and 3.

Yeah I'm not suggesting his stats were better overall but in deciding games 5 and 6 Bradley decidedly won his matchup against butler on both ends of the floor.   Sure anything can happen in a few games but I don't think the 11th best player in the NBA should be losing important head to head matchups in the playoffs with someone not in the top 50.  Just don't see butler as a top 10-15 player.  Def think he's 15-25ish.

Butler shot pretty well in games 5 and 6, and he and Bradley were tied for the leading scorers in the game.  Game 5, Butler didn't shoot that much and only had 14 points, but he had 8 boards and 6 assists outpacing Bradley in all but the scoring (and 2 point shooting).  I think you have really misremembered that series.  Butler was the best player on either team over those 6 games (a small edge over Thomas). 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Last Season Stats:

Hayward: 21.9 PPG / 3.5 APG / 5.4 RPG / .471% FG / .398 3pt% / .844 FT% / 1.0 Steal / 1.9 TO

George: 23.7 PPG / 3.3 APG / 6.6 RPG / .461% FG / .393 3pt% / .898 FT% / 1.6 Steal / 2.9 TO

Butler: 23.9 PPG / 5.5 APG / 6.2 RPG / .455% FG / .367 3pt% / .865 FT% / 1.9 Steal / 2.1 TO

The stats are all ridiculously similar, I'll take the one that has a history with Stevens with the best shooting stats and the least amount of turnovers

[Roy H.]

I'd love for someone to find the rankings of Paul, Ray, and KG prior to the 07-08 season for comparison.

Closest thing I could find: http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

KG was a much bigger get than Kyrie or Hayward.

No doubt. KG was one of the few guys who is a legit game-changer.

[Moranis]

I'd love for someone to find the rankings of Paul, Ray, and KG prior to the 07-08 season for comparison.

Closest thing I could find: http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

KG was a much bigger get than Kyrie or Hayward.

No doubt. KG was one of the few guys in every generation who is a legit game-changer.

I can't believe that less than 60% picked Lebron James as the player they would pick to start a franchise around.  That is just mind boggling to me. 

[max215]

Last Season Stats:

Hayward: 21.9 PPG / 3.5 APG / 5.4 RPG / .471% FG / .398 3pt% / .844 FT% / 1.0 Steal / 1.9 TO

George: 23.7 PPG / 3.3 APG / 6.6 RPG / .461% FG / .393 3pt% / .898 FT% / 1.6 Steal / 2.9 TO

Butler: 23.9 PPG / 5.5 APG / 6.2 RPG / .455% FG / .367 3pt% / .865 FT% / 1.9 Steal / 2.1 TO

The stats are all ridiculously similar, I'll take the one that has a history with Stevens with the best shooting stats and the least amount of turnovers

When it comes to Hayward, per-100 stats are probably a better way to compare due to Utah's slow pace. They paint an even more favorable (and accurate) picture.

[Roy H.]

I'd love for someone to find the rankings of Paul, Ray, and KG prior to the 07-08 season for comparison.

Closest thing I could find: http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

KG was a much bigger get than Kyrie or Hayward.

No doubt. KG was one of the few guys in every generation who is a legit game-changer.

I can't believe that less than 60% picked Lebron James as the player they would pick to start a franchise around.  That is just mind boggling to me.

Especially since Dwight was #2.  It shows just how much staying power Lebron has had. The game has changed, the other guys on that list are no longer producing like stars, and then there's Lebron.

[Bucketgetter]

Lonzo Ball on the other hand is 6’6’’ point guard with a 6’9’’ wingspan, athletic, with good anticipation and intangibles. He could be a great defender, he could be a terrible defender, we don’t know yet because he hasn’t played in the NBA.

Who has an ugly shot that might be easy to block by NBA players.  Right now, he lacks the strength to be a great NBA defender.

Did you read anything else I wrote, or just take that out of context?

This wasn’t a Pro-Ball post, so referencing his ugly shot has nothing to do with this conversation. And he doesn’t have to be a great defender right now. He would just have to be better than Melo, which isn’t hard. And since we don’t know right now if his is, it isn’t ridiculous to rank him ahead of Melo if you’re list values defense very highly. Hence why Smart is ranked right next to Melo and Irving is ranked below Lowry and Conley.

[Moranis]

I'd love for someone to find the rankings of Paul, Ray, and KG prior to the 07-08 season for comparison.

Closest thing I could find: http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

KG was a much bigger get than Kyrie or Hayward.

No doubt. KG was one of the few guys in every generation who is a legit game-changer.

I can't believe that less than 60% picked Lebron James as the player they would pick to start a franchise around.  That is just mind boggling to me.

Especially since Dwight was #2.  It shows just how much staying power Lebron has had. The game has changed, the other guys on that list are no longer producing like stars, and then there's Lebron.

Dwight at 2 made a lot of sense then as he really was the hot prospect (and center was still THE position at the time).  The other 3 guys, Kobe, Duncan, and Dirk all won titles after that, but given just how good and just how young Lebron was in the summer of 2007, I just can't see how anyone would have realistically wanted any one other than Lebron to build around.  I mean 22 year old Lebron James with just 4 years experience but already two top 5 MVP finishes coming off a season where he averaged basically 27/7/6 and carried perhaps the worst team in NBA history to the NBA Finals. 

[max215]

I'd love for someone to find the rankings of Paul, Ray, and KG prior to the 07-08 season for comparison.

Closest thing I could find: http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_players.html

KG was a much bigger get than Kyrie or Hayward.

No doubt. KG was one of the few guys in every generation who is a legit game-changer.

I can't believe that less than 60% picked Lebron James as the player they would pick to start a franchise around.  That is just mind boggling to me.

Especially since Dwight was #2.  It shows just how much staying power Lebron has had. The game has changed, the other guys on that list are no longer producing like stars, and then there's Lebron.

Man, prime Dwight was such a beast.

[RLewis35]

I agree with Roy that both should be inside the top 20, but not like way inside.

I realize the dissension is with Kyrie being at #25, but seeing Hayward at #20 while Butler and George come strolling in at #11 and #13, respectively, is a little annoying.

I guess the Cs have the all-underrated team (Horford is the definition of this)...so that is cool.

George and Butler are better than Hayward

George is.  I think Hayward will be better than Butler this season; that said, I'm not high on Butler - Bradley won the head to head matchup against him in the playoffs let's not forget...

Bradley averaged 16/4/3/1.3/0.2.  Butler averaged 22.7/7.3/4.3/1.7/0.8.  Bradley shot better from 2 and 3.

Yeah I'm not suggesting his stats were better overall but in deciding games 5 and 6 Bradley decidedly won his matchup against butler on both ends of the floor.   Sure anything can happen in a few games but I don't think the 11th best player in the NBA should be losing important head to head matchups in the playoffs with someone not in the top 50.  Just don't see butler as a top 10-15 player.  Def think he's 15-25ish.

Butler shot pretty well in games 5 and 6, and he and Bradley were tied for the leading scorers in the game.  Game 5, Butler didn't shoot that much and only had 14 points, but he had 8 boards and 6 assists outpacing Bradley in all but the scoring (and 2 point shooting).  I think you have really misremembered that series.  Butler was the best player on either team over those 6 games (a small edge over Thomas).

I respectfully will have to agree to disagree - and not that this proves anything since I often disagree with them, but I recall many talking heads discussing how Bradley topped butler head to head when it counted. Pretty sure butler was asked a question along those lines in the final presser and he agreed (not that that determines anything either, and I respect that he would agree w that especially in a loss regardless of how he may actually feel).

Anyway my point in bringing up that series wasn't to suggest I think Bradley is better than butler - I don't - but simply to suggest that I have a hard time with butler as the 11th best player and that far ahead of Hayward, when someone of Bradley's caliber can arguably best him or match him head to head in the deciding games of a playoff series.

We will see how they do on their new teams this season, but I personally prefer Hayward to Butler.  I would take George in a heartbeat over either if he was willing to commit long term though.

[Bobshot]

I would put him just after Wall or Lillard. Probably 6 or 7. Ahead of Paul, Conley, etc. Walker should be in there someplace close to Kyrie. The top guys are Harden, Curry, Westbrook followed by Wall and Lillard.

The trouble with ESPN is you have to filter out NY.