Mannix: "rival execs believe Boston makes run for Davis if NO season ends bad"

[saltlover]

Quite a few people criticize DeMarcus Cousins for "not making his team better," but doesn't Davis fall into that same category? It doesn't seem to me like he elevates the play of his teammates.

Not that I wouldn't want him on the Celtics, mind you. But this question just occurred to me.

It sort of depends what you think the baseline for the Pelicans would be without him.  I personally think they would have challenged Brooklyn for the worst record last season but for Davis.  4 of their top 6 players in minutes, aside from AD and Holiday, were Solomon Hill, E'Twaun Moore, Tim Frazier, and Dante Cunningham.  Would any of those guys have had a greater role than Jerebko on last year's Celtics?  Number 7 in minutes was Terrence Jones, whom they just cut outright in the middle of the year, and was then cut again by Milwaukee a few weeks later, and is out of an NBA job at present.  The Pelicans did not have a lot of talent last year.  Yes, they eventually got Cousins, but he only played in 17 games.  Players should only be expected to elevate their teammates so much.

We'll have to see what they do this year. If they seem stagnant again, AD will have to shoulder some of the blame. With Jrue and Cousins, they should win at least 40ish.. If they can't they need to really reconsider their roster and coaching..

That said, AD will probably be retained and they'll start over everywhere else..

Their team isn't much better.  They're still likely giving replacement-level players like Moore and Hill starter level minutes.  Rondo is wonderful in the playoffs, and for a few high-profile games in the regular season, but he's a questionable fit on that roster when he isn't in Hall-of-Fame mode.  Jordan Crawford might wind up with heavy minutes as the Pelicans continue to cycle through guards from the end of the Doc era.  About 1/5th of their payroll (and 1/5 of their roster) is darn near useless in Asik, Ajinca, and Pondexter.  If Cousins and Davis can work together, sure, that team could be better, but most of the time you're going to have replacement level talent for at least two positions on the court, and that's always difficult to overcome at the NBA level, no matter how great the top-level takent is.

So what will they do? Let Boogie walk? Rebuild around Jrue and AD? Trade AD and start over?

I think they should trade AD and Boogie and start over.  They're in a bad state.  Boogie could just walk next year anyway, and they'd have no way to replace him.  If he stays, they'll probably be significantly into the luxury tax, and it's not clear they even have the team to compete for the playoffs in the West.  So if they're outside the playoffs at the deadline, I'd start over.  If the Celtics came with the right offer, I wouldn't wait for the summer.

[Phantom255x]

Quite a few people criticize DeMarcus Cousins for "not making his team better," but doesn't Davis fall into that same category? It doesn't seem to me like he elevates the play of his teammates.

Not that I wouldn't want him on the Celtics, mind you. But this question just occurred to me.

It sort of depends what you think the baseline for the Pelicans would be without him.  I personally think they would have challenged Brooklyn for the worst record last season but for Davis.  4 of their top 6 players in minutes, aside from AD and Holiday, were Solomon Hill, E'Twaun Moore, Tim Frazier, and Dante Cunningham.  Would any of those guys have had a greater role than Jerebko on last year's Celtics?  Number 7 in minutes was Terrence Jones, whom they just cut outright in the middle of the year, and was then cut again by Milwaukee a few weeks later, and is out of an NBA job at present.  The Pelicans did not have a lot of talent last year.  Yes, they eventually got Cousins, but he only played in 17 games.  Players should only be expected to elevate their teammates so much.

We'll have to see what they do this year. If they seem stagnant again, AD will have to shoulder some of the blame. With Jrue and Cousins, they should win at least 40ish.. If they can't they need to really reconsider their roster and coaching..

That said, AD will probably be retained and they'll start over everywhere else..

Their team isn't much better.  They're still likely giving replacement-level players like Moore and Hill starter level minutes.  Rondo is wonderful in the playoffs, and for a few high-profile games in the regular season, but he's a questionable fit on that roster when he isn't in Hall-of-Fame mode.  Jordan Crawford might wind up with heavy minutes as the Pelicans continue to cycle through guards from the end of the Doc era.  About 1/5th of their payroll (and 1/5 of their roster) is darn near useless in Asik, Ajinca, and Pondexter.  If Cousins and Davis can work together, sure, that team could be better, but most of the time you're going to have replacement level talent for at least two positions on the court, and that's always difficult to overcome at the NBA level, no matter how great the top-level takent is.

So what will they do? Let Boogie walk? Rebuild around Jrue and AD? Trade AD and start over?

I think they should trade AD and Boogie and start over.  They're in a bad state.  Boogie could just walk next year anyway, and they'd have no way to replace him.  If he stays, they'll probably be significantly into the luxury tax, and it's not clear they even have the team to compete for the playoffs in the West.  So if they're outside the playoffs at the deadline, I'd start over.  If the Celtics came with the right offer, I wouldn't wait for the summer.

I think if it doesn't work out, Pels trade Cousins, then tank the rest of the season with AD, and try again to build around AD with 3 years of control left of him.

Now if AD wants out himself, that's a different story (and it's possible).

But I doubt, even if it's the logical move, that the Pels FO will give up on building around AD and instead, they will keep trying. But again, if AD himself demands he wants out, they won't really have a choice.

[saltlover]

Quite a few people criticize DeMarcus Cousins for "not making his team better," but doesn't Davis fall into that same category? It doesn't seem to me like he elevates the play of his teammates.

Not that I wouldn't want him on the Celtics, mind you. But this question just occurred to me.

It sort of depends what you think the baseline for the Pelicans would be without him.  I personally think they would have challenged Brooklyn for the worst record last season but for Davis.  4 of their top 6 players in minutes, aside from AD and Holiday, were Solomon Hill, E'Twaun Moore, Tim Frazier, and Dante Cunningham.  Would any of those guys have had a greater role than Jerebko on last year's Celtics?  Number 7 in minutes was Terrence Jones, whom they just cut outright in the middle of the year, and was then cut again by Milwaukee a few weeks later, and is out of an NBA job at present.  The Pelicans did not have a lot of talent last year.  Yes, they eventually got Cousins, but he only played in 17 games.  Players should only be expected to elevate their teammates so much.

We'll have to see what they do this year. If they seem stagnant again, AD will have to shoulder some of the blame. With Jrue and Cousins, they should win at least 40ish.. If they can't they need to really reconsider their roster and coaching..

That said, AD will probably be retained and they'll start over everywhere else..

Their team isn't much better.  They're still likely giving replacement-level players like Moore and Hill starter level minutes.  Rondo is wonderful in the playoffs, and for a few high-profile games in the regular season, but he's a questionable fit on that roster when he isn't in Hall-of-Fame mode.  Jordan Crawford might wind up with heavy minutes as the Pelicans continue to cycle through guards from the end of the Doc era.  About 1/5th of their payroll (and 1/5 of their roster) is darn near useless in Asik, Ajinca, and Pondexter.  If Cousins and Davis can work together, sure, that team could be better, but most of the time you're going to have replacement level talent for at least two positions on the court, and that's always difficult to overcome at the NBA level, no matter how great the top-level takent is.

So what will they do? Let Boogie walk? Rebuild around Jrue and AD? Trade AD and start over?

I think they should trade AD and Boogie and start over.  They're in a bad state.  Boogie could just walk next year anyway, and they'd have no way to replace him.  If he stays, they'll probably be significantly into the luxury tax, and it's not clear they even have the team to compete for the playoffs in the West.  So if they're outside the playoffs at the deadline, I'd start over.  If the Celtics came with the right offer, I wouldn't wait for the summer.

I think if it doesn't work out, Pels trade Cousins, then tank the rest of the season with AD, and try again to build around AD with 3 years of control left of him.

Now if AD wants out himself, that's a different story (and it's possible).

But I doubt, even if it's the logical move, that the Pels FO will give up on building around AD and instead, they will keep trying. But again, if AD himself demands he wants out, they won't really have a choice.

Davis has a player option for that last year, so he's only under two more years of team control beginning next summer.  It's getting late early for them, and if they've learned anything from the Paul George, Jimmy Butler, and even their own DeMarcus Cousins trades, the longer you wait, the lower the return you get.

With as much rubbish that exists on their roster, they might even be a better team for trading Davis for four rotation players THIS year, nevermind the future when they'd have the high picks and future growth of Brown or Tatum.

[kraidstar]

If anyone has the assets to land Davis, it is the Boston Celtics

You could say the same about Jimmy Butler, Paul George, and Demarcus Cousins

In all fairness, the Celtics had more than enough assets to land those players. They just decided to pass on them.

Yup.

Not to mention Davis is already the best player of he three, and the only one with potential to be an all-time top-10 player.

AND HE IS ONLY 24, and is signed to a good contract for 3 more years.

Cousins is 26, George is 27, Butler is 27.

[kraidstar]

Quite a few people criticize DeMarcus Cousins for "not making his team better," but doesn't Davis fall into that same category? It doesn't seem to me like he elevates the play of his teammates.

Not that I wouldn't want him on the Celtics, mind you. But this question just occurred to me.

It sort of depends what you think the baseline for the Pelicans would be without him.  I personally think they would have challenged Brooklyn for the worst record last season but for Davis.  4 of their top 6 players in minutes, aside from AD and Holiday, were Solomon Hill, E'Twaun Moore, Tim Frazier, and Dante Cunningham.  Would any of those guys have had a greater role than Jerebko on last year's Celtics?  Number 7 in minutes was Terrence Jones, whom they just cut outright in the middle of the year, and was then cut again by Milwaukee a few weeks later, and is out of an NBA job at present.  The Pelicans did not have a lot of talent last year.  Yes, they eventually got Cousins, but he only played in 17 games.  Players should only be expected to elevate their teammates so much.

The Pels' supporting cast is beyond bad. They are near D-league level. They are worse than KG's worst Wolves teams. He also faces stiff competition in the West. In the east he probably lands at least a 7 or 8-seed each year.

I would add that center is one of the hardest positions to elevate your teammates' play, at least offensively. The ball generally isn't flowing through a center the way it does through a ball handling SF or PG.

[Darío SpanishFan]

Why wouldn't AD get this team over the hump?  I just don't understand what some people want sometimes.

It's not inconceivable that some people would rather keep Brown, Tatum, BKN '18, and the LAL/Sac pick if they think that GS is still unbeatable. Yes, I get that adding Davis to our current core would make us a very scary team; but, unless we are pretty much guaranteed a championship (like GS is now), then waiting a couple of years isn't a terrible idea.

Now, if Davis could be had for only two of the above players/picks, then it would make a whole lot more sense to try to add him to our team and compete now and in the future.

Unfortunately, GS pretty much ruined the NBA for a few years. Oh well.

TP. This is the point. Davis is a generational talent, yes. But he's never been able to get his team deep in the season (I know, players surrendering him and that) and there are some ifs.

What if you give Tatum, Brown, Zizic and BRO + LAL 18 for Davis and he has a microfracture injury and gets slowed down for the rest of his career? (See Stoudemire, Amar'e).

What if BRO and LAL 18 give us two top-3 picks? Would you give that package for Davis, but including Ayton or Mamba? They may be not as good as Davis, but in the group of the best young NBA centers. Would you surrender Jayson Taytum, Jaylen Brown, Michael Porter and DeAndre Ayton for ONE PLAYER?

I think this is a question that needs to be thought about.

You're forgetting that it looks like this years draft will include Bagley, also considered a generational talent along the lines of LeBron/AD.

You could be dealing away that guy for AD if Brooklyn is the worst team again. TOUGH call..

We still don't know if he will be eligible, but it's another player to support the point. The 2018 draft could be TOP-5 huge.

[CelticsElite]

Why wouldn't AD get this team over the hump?  I just don't understand what some people want sometimes.

It's not inconceivable that some people would rather keep Brown, Tatum, BKN '18, and the LAL/Sac pick if they think that GS is still unbeatable. Yes, I get that adding Davis to our current core would make us a very scary team; but, unless we are pretty much guaranteed a championship (like GS is now), then waiting a couple of years isn't a terrible idea.

Now, if Davis could be had for only two of the above players/picks, then it would make a whole lot more sense to try to add him to our team and compete now and in the future.

Unfortunately, GS pretty much ruined the NBA for a few years. Oh well.

TP. This is the point. Davis is a generational talent, yes. But he's never been able to get his team deep in the season (I know, players surrendering him and that) and there are some ifs.

What if you give Tatum, Brown, Zizic and BRO + LAL 18 for Davis and he has a microfracture injury and gets slowed down for the rest of his career? (See Stoudemire, Amar'e).

What if BRO and LAL 18 give us two top-3 picks? Would you give that package for Davis, but including Ayton or Mamba? They may be not as good as Davis, but in the group of the best young NBA centers. Would you surrender Jayson Taytum, Jaylen Brown, Michael Porter and DeAndre Ayton for ONE PLAYER?

I think this is a question that needs to be thought about.

You're forgetting that it looks like this years draft will include Bagley, also considered a generational talent along the lines of LeBron/AD.

You could be dealing away that guy for AD if Brooklyn is the worst team again. TOUGH call..

We still don't know if he will be eligible, but it's another player to support the point. The 2018 draft could be TOP-5 huge.

that would be awesome to get a top 5 pixk

[Beat LA]

Gimme Gimme Moore, Gimme Moore, Gimme E'Twaun Moore...

[Fireworks_Boom!]

A starting five of...

Thomas
Smart
Hayward
Davis
Horford

...sounds delightful to me. Salary matching would be the most difficult aspect of this trade so it looks like it would take a 3rd team. Unless we are agreeable to losing the following in the package: Smart/Tatum/Morris/Crowder + Picks (which works on realgm salary wise).

[bostonts]

"all it takes is Davis to say "I want out." He has virtually every annoying hothead on his team now. Missing the playoffs and playing with annoying players creates a disgruntled star"

It's a sequence of events that needs to occur ... it might not occur...but crazier things have happened. If I told you 4 years ago we would be the #1 seed, 7 wins away from a banner, have a new big 3 of young all stars, while having annual top 3 lottery draft picks you'd call me crazy. We have the biggest treasure chest in the NBA. Kevin Garnett once forced himself out of Minnesota. No reason that Davis can't do that too."

First off it's not entirely unreasonable that Davis could "force his way out" though i don't think the Garnett situation is quite the same. I can certainly understand why Celts fans would want to speculate on acquiring Davis and obviously he'd be a great add.

I'm simply pointing out that this particular report by Mannix is fluff. There's nothing from the Davis or Pelican side, and if I were Pelicans management, and I had Davis on contract till 2020, I would not move Davis even if he were pouting a bit. Nor would I trade him for some picks and assets. My first move would be trade Cousins. Then I'd tell Davis "we're making a run at Lebron."

Speculation, fine - but this "news report" is nothing. Of course Danny will make a run at Davis, he'd be a fool not to. Who knows maybe he'll make a run at Lebron too. He'll make a run at anyone he thinks can put us over the top.

[ThaPreacher]

Quite unneccessary topic at this time, predicting something to happen at the end of next season. Most likely there will be thousands of other stories and scenarios at that time. Let us Ainge make plans, all the rest (such talks) are waste of time.

If they add a couple of improved role players, they will make the playoffs.
Crawford off the bench last year was a boost. Rondo will distribute. A 3 and D guy and a slasher!
The Pelicans will finally take their head out of the Bourbon Street Sands

Read this!
https://16winsaring.com/rajon-rondo-marks-biggest-splash-of-new-orleans-pelicans-free-agency-e6e8407232c0

[CelticsElite]

Quite unneccessary topic at this time, predicting something to happen at the end of next season. Most likely there will be thousands of other stories and scenarios at that time. Let us Ainge make plans, all the rest (such talks) are waste of time.

If they add a couple of improved role players, they will make the playoffs.
Crawford off the bench last year was a boost. Rondo will distribute. A 3 and D guy and a slasher!
The Pelicans will finally take their head out of the Bourbon Street Sands

Read this!
https://16winsaring.com/rajon-rondo-marks-biggest-splash-of-new-orleans-pelicans-free-agency-e6e8407232c0

that's not happening. Jrue and cousins isn't going to the playoffs. Terrible coach

[Phantom255x]

Mannix just seems to be having fun with this. 

[IDreamCeltics]

If anyone has the assets to land Davis, it is the Boston Celtics

You could say the same about Jimmy Butler, Paul George, and Demarcus Cousins

In all fairness, the Celtics had more than enough assets to land those players. They just decided to pass on them.

Yup.

Not to mention Davis is already the best player of he three, and the only one with potential to be an all-time top-10 player.

AND HE IS ONLY 24, and is signed to a good contract for 3 more years.

Cousins is 26, George is 27, Butler is 27.

Which is exactly why NO won't be trading Davis for any amount.  Dead story... move on.

[Rondo9]

If anyone has the assets to land Davis, it is the Boston Celtics

You could say the same about Jimmy Butler, Paul George, and Demarcus Cousins

In all fairness, the Celtics had more than enough assets to land those players. They just decided to pass on them.

Yup.

Not to mention Davis is already the best player of he three, and the only one with potential to be an all-time top-10 player.

AND HE IS ONLY 24, and is signed to a good contract for 3 more years.

Cousins is 26, George is 27, Butler is 27.

Which is exactly why NO won't be trading Davis for any amount.  Dead story... move on.

It's a dead story because you say so?