If we move Bradley, isn't the Hayward addition... less of an addition?

[Surferdad]

Now that we have our prize in GH I am worried. We have no bigs. We are talking about moving 1-3 of AB, Smart & Crowder. AB & Smart we can't lose because without them we have no perimeter defense. Although I am least fond of Crowder and he plays a crowded position he did play decent defense. We are talking about being slightly over the tax line by a million or two or $300,000 (I hear different variations). So let's say we are 3 million over the cap how much of a penalty would that be? Can't we pay a small penalty to keep our core guys here? Without most of them we aren't going to be the same. I don't understand the tax penalty and severity but it seems there are many teams that don't care about it but we do. Are we a big market team that is going for it or are we a small market team that is just trying to profit and hope we can do it within the guidelines?

No, you can't go over the cap by paying a penalty. You're confusing the cap with the luxury tax. The main way to go over the cap is by re-signing your own players to bigger contracts using their Bird rights, and if you go too far over the cap by doing so you enter LT territory. LT will be a factor next summer, but this summer only the cap is a factor.

TP for your explanation. Now the next question would be how can a S&T of Hayward improve this transaction for us? I guess I am thoroughly confused about this whole process because wouldn't a salary match be more difficult with a maxed player being traded? How is that different salary cap wise? I guess the bottom line is I hope that Danny & company have backup plans to make this all work without losing too much of our core.

It's been suggested on the forum (not sure where) that the C's could make  S+T work only sending out Jackson and Rozier (and re-stashing Yabu). I don't think this is correct; most likely we'd still need to trade AB/Smart/Crowder. The reason it could make sense is that the Jazz are one of the relatively few good teams with cap space now that they've lost Hayward, so they would be interested in any of those 3 guys.

Another option might be to use Olynyk in some sort of two-way sign and trade. This seems like a possibility based on my understanding of the rules; the total amount of salary we'd need to send out, including Olynyk's new salary, would have to be:

(max contract - $100k) / 175% = $16.9M

which is well within Olynyk's expected salary range. For a deal like this to work, we'd probably have to send a 1st round pick or some other asset to Utah, as they would want something in exchange for helping us.

I'm not a cap expert, but my understanding is that a S + T involving Jackson and Rozier and stashing Yabu does indeed work. The hold up would be that it essentially gives Rozier away for nothing. The Celts are exploring trades involving Bradley, Crowder, and Smart because not only would that clear the space they need, but they would also want to get an asset in return. They are not going to trade one of those three just for space, they will get something valuable too. I don't think Utah gets any pick in a sign and trade, they would not be helping us, they would get a player.

Yes, I was just about to say the same thing.  We are helping Utah salvage something out of losing Hayward outright.  I don't see a need to include something as valuable as a 1st round pick.  Give them a 2nd rounder perhaps.

[Bobshot]

They are close to meeting the cap requirements--probably closer than giving up B,C or S.

How about Hayward and Horford agreeing to shave a little salary? They make 3-4X more than anybody else on the team. The disparity is pretty striking.  That could be enough, or at least put them where they don't have to sacrifice any core team for next year.

Rozier would be the logical guy to go. He is expendable. Doesn't weaken the team to lose him.

[Chris22]

Bradley is way overrated.
Brown takes his place, and we get bigger.

[hodgy03038]

Bradley is way overrated.
Brown takes his place, and we get bigger.

Maybe the second sentence is true but I don't know how you can say AB is overrated. He is our best on ball defender, he scores, he rebounds and he is a true Celtic.

[loco_91]

Now that we have our prize in GH I am worried. We have no bigs. We are talking about moving 1-3 of AB, Smart & Crowder. AB & Smart we can't lose because without them we have no perimeter defense. Although I am least fond of Crowder and he plays a crowded position he did play decent defense. We are talking about being slightly over the tax line by a million or two or $300,000 (I hear different variations). So let's say we are 3 million over the cap how much of a penalty would that be? Can't we pay a small penalty to keep our core guys here? Without most of them we aren't going to be the same. I don't understand the tax penalty and severity but it seems there are many teams that don't care about it but we do. Are we a big market team that is going for it or are we a small market team that is just trying to profit and hope we can do it within the guidelines?

No, you can't go over the cap by paying a penalty. You're confusing the cap with the luxury tax. The main way to go over the cap is by re-signing your own players to bigger contracts using their Bird rights, and if you go too far over the cap by doing so you enter LT territory. LT will be a factor next summer, but this summer only the cap is a factor.

TP for your explanation. Now the next question would be how can a S&T of Hayward improve this transaction for us? I guess I am thoroughly confused about this whole process because wouldn't a salary match be more difficult with a maxed player being traded? How is that different salary cap wise? I guess the bottom line is I hope that Danny & company have backup plans to make this all work without losing too much of our core.

It's been suggested on the forum (not sure where) that the C's could make  S+T work only sending out Jackson and Rozier (and re-stashing Yabu). I don't think this is correct; most likely we'd still need to trade AB/Smart/Crowder. The reason it could make sense is that the Jazz are one of the relatively few good teams with cap space now that they've lost Hayward, so they would be interested in any of those 3 guys.

Another option might be to use Olynyk in some sort of two-way sign and trade. This seems like a possibility based on my understanding of the rules; the total amount of salary we'd need to send out, including Olynyk's new salary, would have to be:

(max contract - $100k) / 175% = $16.9M

which is well within Olynyk's expected salary range. For a deal like this to work, we'd probably have to send a 1st round pick or some other asset to Utah, as they would want something in exchange for helping us.

I'm not a cap expert, but my understanding is that a S + T involving Jackson and Rozier and stashing Yabu does indeed work. The hold up would be that it essentially gives Rozier away for nothing. The Celts are exploring trades involving Bradley, Crowder, and Smart because not only would that clear the space they need, but they would also want to get an asset in return. They are not going to trade one of those three just for space, they will get something valuable too. I don't think Utah gets any pick in a sign and trade, they would not be helping us, they would get a player.

Interesting, but I read through relavent CBA text this morning and couldn't find anything to suggest that a S+T with Jackson and Rozier would help. Dumping Rozier for nothing isn't ideal, but it's much better than trading Smart or Crowder for a late 1st round pick or equivalent. (Trading AB for a late 1st would be more palatable). The best case scenario is that we get fair value for one of these guys elsewhere, of course.