Isaiah Thomas is not going to command the max (edit: nevermind)

[max215]

Imo danny won't touch the IT4 contract situation until... 

He knows once he opens the wallet for IT4 (if Hayward signs) ...AB , Smart could be goners

AB is like a son to Danny...  i still think he will keep AB over IT4 if it came down to it

Why would they keep the significantly inferior player with more injury concerns who will still be extremely expensive?

what are you talking about??

AB is a much MUCH better defender than IT4.....  and has improved on the offensive end , pretty much every season

IF AB is a 7 on offense and IT4 is a 9

well AB is a 9 on defense and IT4 is like a 2

you do the math

IT4, Fultz... you just care too much about offense.   Defense is also very very important

Defense is important, but:

1. Avery Bradley is an overrated defender. Yes, he's dominant on-ball, maybe the best in the league, but otherwise, he's uninspiring. Smart is a better defender IMO.

2. On offense, if Isaiah is a "9," Bradley is not a "7." Isaiah is one of the 5 best offensive players in basketball by literally every single metric. Bradley, meanwhile, is probably below average due to his inefficient scoring and the fact that he is very possibly the worst passing guard in the entire NBA.

I agree with most of this, but Bradley has improved his scoring level to "efficient" the past two seasons.  Bradley was worth about 1.08 points per shot attempt (with free throws factored in) two years ago, and 1.1 points last season.  He's not an elite scorer by any means, but he's graduated from the inefficiency that defined his early career.

Fair enough. I should have looked at per shot numbers, but I just saw his below average TS%. Overall, though, I still consider him a pretty average offensive player. His inability to create for himself and others as a guard is poor.

[saltlover]

Imo danny won't touch the IT4 contract situation until... 

He knows once he opens the wallet for IT4 (if Hayward signs) ...AB , Smart could be goners

AB is like a son to Danny...  i still think he will keep AB over IT4 if it came down to it

Why would they keep the significantly inferior player with more injury concerns who will still be extremely expensive?

what are you talking about??

AB is a much MUCH better defender than IT4.....  and has improved on the offensive end , pretty much every season

IF AB is a 7 on offense and IT4 is a 9

well AB is a 9 on defense and IT4 is like a 2

you do the math

IT4, Fultz... you just care too much about offense.   Defense is also very very important

Defense is important, but:

1. Avery Bradley is an overrated defender. Yes, he's dominant on-ball, maybe the best in the league, but otherwise, he's uninspiring. Smart is a better defender IMO.

2. On offense, if Isaiah is a "9," Bradley is not a "7." Isaiah is one of the 5 best offensive players in basketball by literally every single metric. Bradley, meanwhile, is probably below average due to his inefficient scoring and the fact that he is very possibly the worst passing guard in the entire NBA.

I agree with most of this, but Bradley has improved his scoring level to "efficient" the past two seasons.  Bradley was worth about 1.08 points per shot attempt (with free throws factored in) two years ago, and 1.1 points last season.  He's not an elite scorer by any means, but he's graduated from the inefficiency that defined his early career.

Fair enough. I should have looked at per shot numbers, but I just saw his below average TS%. Overall, though, I still consider him a pretty average offensive player. His inability to create for himself and others as a guard is poor.

That's what I was doing.. roughly using TS% to calculate points per shot.  I don't think league average TS% is above what Bradley averaged last year (.548), and I do know that his eFG% was above league average (.533 to .514).  He's not IT efficient, but he's no longer inefficient, and it's been that way for two seasons now.  He's average to slightly above average.

[Tr1boy]

Imo danny won't touch the IT4 contract situation until... 

He knows once he opens the wallet for IT4 (if Hayward signs) ...AB , Smart could be goners

AB is like a son to Danny...  i still think he will keep AB over IT4 if it came down to it

Why would they keep the significantly inferior player with more injury concerns who will still be extremely expensive?

what are you talking about??

AB is a much MUCH better defender than IT4.....  and has improved on the offensive end , pretty much every season

IF AB is a 7 on offense and IT4 is a 9

well AB is a 9 on defense and IT4 is like a 2

you do the math

IT4, Fultz... you just care too much about offense.   Defense is also very very important

Defense is important, but:

1. Avery Bradley is an overrated defender. Yes, he's dominant on-ball, maybe the best in the league, but otherwise, he's uninspiring. Smart is a better defender IMO.

2. On offense, if Isaiah is a "9," Bradley is not a "7." Isaiah is one of the 5 best offensive players in basketball by literally every single metric. Bradley, meanwhile, is probably below average due to his inefficient scoring and the fact that he is very possibly the worst passing guard in the entire NBA.

You have an opinion about the difference that is fine

But you fail to mention how much help IT4 gets to get his offense going. All those picks, multiple screens etc. AB , Smart, Crowder bailing him out on the defensive end also

Is this a joke? That's called offense, and it applies to every single player in the NBA.

Harden, RW, Leonard, Lebron , Durant says hi

IT4 needed "extra" picks, double screens etc.

And a smart team would expose him on the defensive end

[Tr1boy]

Imo danny won't touch the IT4 contract situation until... 

He knows once he opens the wallet for IT4 (if Hayward signs) ...AB , Smart could be goners

AB is like a son to Danny...  i still think he will keep AB over IT4 if it came down to it

Why would they keep the significantly inferior player with more injury concerns who will still be extremely expensive?

what are you talking about??

AB is a much MUCH better defender than IT4.....  and has improved on the offensive end , pretty much every season

IF AB is a 7 on offense and IT4 is a 9

well AB is a 9 on defense and IT4 is like a 2

you do the math

IT4, Fultz... you just care too much about offense.   Defense is also very very important

Defense is important, but:

1. Avery Bradley is an overrated defender. Yes, he's dominant on-ball, maybe the best in the league, but otherwise, he's uninspiring. Smart is a better defender IMO.

2. On offense, if Isaiah is a "9," Bradley is not a "7." Isaiah is one of the 5 best offensive players in basketball by literally every single metric. Bradley, meanwhile, is probably below average due to his inefficient scoring and the fact that he is very possibly the worst passing guard in the entire NBA.

I agree with most of this, but Bradley has improved his scoring level to "efficient" the past two seasons.  Bradley was worth about 1.08 points per shot attempt (with free throws factored in) two years ago, and 1.1 points last season.  He's not an elite scorer by any means, but he's graduated from the inefficiency that defined his early career.

Fair enough. I should have looked at per shot numbers, but I just saw his below average TS%. Overall, though, I still consider him a pretty average offensive player. His inability to create for himself and others as a guard is poor.

Because you value ability to create shots ...seems like alot

You prefer players like Jamal Crawford, Louis Williams over AB?

[max215]

Imo danny won't touch the IT4 contract situation until... 

He knows once he opens the wallet for IT4 (if Hayward signs) ...AB , Smart could be goners

AB is like a son to Danny...  i still think he will keep AB over IT4 if it came down to it

Why would they keep the significantly inferior player with more injury concerns who will still be extremely expensive?

what are you talking about??

AB is a much MUCH better defender than IT4.....  and has improved on the offensive end , pretty much every season

IF AB is a 7 on offense and IT4 is a 9

well AB is a 9 on defense and IT4 is like a 2

you do the math

IT4, Fultz... you just care too much about offense.   Defense is also very very important

Defense is important, but:

1. Avery Bradley is an overrated defender. Yes, he's dominant on-ball, maybe the best in the league, but otherwise, he's uninspiring. Smart is a better defender IMO.

2. On offense, if Isaiah is a "9," Bradley is not a "7." Isaiah is one of the 5 best offensive players in basketball by literally every single metric. Bradley, meanwhile, is probably below average due to his inefficient scoring and the fact that he is very possibly the worst passing guard in the entire NBA.

I agree with most of this, but Bradley has improved his scoring level to "efficient" the past two seasons.  Bradley was worth about 1.08 points per shot attempt (with free throws factored in) two years ago, and 1.1 points last season.  He's not an elite scorer by any means, but he's graduated from the inefficiency that defined his early career.

Fair enough. I should have looked at per shot numbers, but I just saw his below average TS%. Overall, though, I still consider him a pretty average offensive player. His inability to create for himself and others as a guard is poor.

Because you value ability to create shots ...seems like alot

You prefer players like Jamal Crawford, Louis Williams over AB?

I value the ability to create efficient shots, because that is how you score points, which is how you win. Williams does that in the regular season, which is somewhat useful. Crawford not so much. Both are horrific defenders, so their decent (NOT elite, unlike IT) shot creation does not entirely outweigh their defense. You're approaching this like it's black and white and offense-first players are always superior, which is very clearly not what I'm saying.

[max215]

Imo danny won't touch the IT4 contract situation until... 

He knows once he opens the wallet for IT4 (if Hayward signs) ...AB , Smart could be goners

AB is like a son to Danny...  i still think he will keep AB over IT4 if it came down to it

Why would they keep the significantly inferior player with more injury concerns who will still be extremely expensive?

what are you talking about??

AB is a much MUCH better defender than IT4.....  and has improved on the offensive end , pretty much every season

IF AB is a 7 on offense and IT4 is a 9

well AB is a 9 on defense and IT4 is like a 2

you do the math

IT4, Fultz... you just care too much about offense.   Defense is also very very important

Defense is important, but:

1. Avery Bradley is an overrated defender. Yes, he's dominant on-ball, maybe the best in the league, but otherwise, he's uninspiring. Smart is a better defender IMO.

2. On offense, if Isaiah is a "9," Bradley is not a "7." Isaiah is one of the 5 best offensive players in basketball by literally every single metric. Bradley, meanwhile, is probably below average due to his inefficient scoring and the fact that he is very possibly the worst passing guard in the entire NBA.

You have an opinion about the difference that is fine

But you fail to mention how much help IT4 gets to get his offense going. All those picks, multiple screens etc. AB , Smart, Crowder bailing him out on the defensive end also

Is this a joke? That's called offense, and it applies to every single player in the NBA.

Harden, RW, Leonard, Lebron , Durant says hi

IT4 needed "extra" picks, double screens etc.

And a smart team would expose him on the defensive end

This is so beyond ridiculous. The man just put up 29ppg (3rd most in the NBA) on 62% TS and you're trying to discredit his scoring. Seriously?

[Phantom255x]

Otto FREAKIN' Porter is about to get a 4 year/106M contract.

LOL Isaiah in that case looks like he's worth 200M "at least".

Whether you agree or not, IT is getting a big 4 year deal.

We didn't draft Fultz, so it looks more likely.

[hwangjini_1]

i did not find this anyplace else, so decided to post it here on an IT thread. saw it over on SoSH.

hopefully this is true.
.......

Just reported on the summer league broadcast that Stevens said that it is unlikely that Thomas will need surgery.

Not definite, but much closer. Get well IT!

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...ordon-hayward-says-isaiah-thomas-need-surgery

Added Stevens: "Everybody that I have talked to said it looked unlikely that they would need to [perform surgery]. But I don't want to speak in absolutes. I'm not a doctor, just a coach."

[rondofan1255]

He'll likely get the max, but hopefully it's only three years like Lowry's.