Author Topic: Rumor: Agents Fearful For Rookie Clients Drafted By "Loaded" Boston  (Read 20033 times)

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Offline crimson_stallion

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I'm assuming it's Fultz' agent who said this, and it makes complete sense.  Boston has way too much depth at the 1, 2 and 3 - and three of the top 5 prospects are PGs. 

There is really only one player in the top 5 who could play minutes at the NBA PF spot, and that's Tatum.  So if he got drafted by the Celtics, he'd have a very good shot of getting minutes.

If Fultz or Ball get drafted by Boston, then I seriously doubt either of those guys is stealing a starting spot from Bradley or Thomas - meaning they probably come off the bench.  Most likely either the pick (or Smart) would be traded because there just aren't enough minutes to go around in Boston's perimeter.

Wow, your posting has really deteriorated. There have been multiple articles where both Fultz and Thomas said they'd have no problem playing with each other. Fultz recently said he'd love to play for the Celtics. He has shown he is willing to be interviewed and workout with the Celtics.

Are you gonna ignore these like when I said something about Sullinger's numbers prior to last season and you replied with arguments about last season?!

Like when Dunn's agent apparently said Dunn didn't want to come to Boston due to the bloated backcourt, and then Dunn himself later went on to say he'd love to play in Boston?

Fultz is being looked at as the almost unanimous #1 pick in this draft.  Boston is going to the Eastern Conference Finals behind their starting backcourt of Isaiah Thomas (29 PPG this year) and Avery Bradley (longest tenured Celtic and 16 PPG all-defensive first treamer).

They have Marcus Smart playing 6th man minutes for the past 2-3 years (~28 MPG).  Lets say those guys all play 28 MPG apiece- that's already all 84 of a possible 96 minutes at the guard positions taken up by those three guys. 

That's not even factoring in Rozier, who has been very effective in the playoffs and has proven he's worthy of minutes.  But lets say Boston finds a deal and trades Rozier - that still leaves only 12 MPG available for Fultz.

You really think your #1 pick in the draft is going to be happy playing some 12 MPG off the bench?

Ok, so Smart can get some minutes at SF - sure.  But then what do you do with your perennial starter (Jae Crowder) and last years #3 pick (Jaylen Brown)?

Unless you can find a trade for one of those key guys, how can you possible find sufficient playing time for Fultz when you already have Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Crowder and Brown all sharing minutes on the perimeter?

Jaylen Brown played very solidly this year considering his age and how raw he was supposed to be.  I've got little doubt that had he gone to a crappier team and played 30 MPG, he could easily averaged double figures and would have probably been an All-Rookie first team selection.  Instead he was buried on the Celtics and got mostly ignore throughout the season while playing some 18 MPG for a #1 seed.

If Boston drafts Fultz and plays HIM 18 MPG as well, then this could be the first time in history that a team has drafted two top 3 picks in back-to-back years and failed to play either of the more then 20 MPG.  Fultz's shot at ROTY would pretty much go out the window by default.

Basically, if Boston takes Fultz, then they need to trade somebody - and who are you going to trade?  Thomas, an All-Star and top 3 scorer?  Bradley, who is arguably the biggest locker room leader of the team and excellent two-way player?  Crowder? Brown, the top-3 pick with sky high upside?  Smart, the ultimate crowd and coach favourite? 

Trading any of those guys to make bench space for an unproven rookie is a big risk.

It's a bit of a messy situation to be brutally honest - albeit I'm sure it's a problem any coach / GM would be happy to have.


Offline Darío SpanishFan

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This is nonsense. How many rookies are playing significant minutes in their teams in May? Because Jaylen Brown is.

Offline crimson_stallion

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This is nonsense. How many rookies are playing significant minutes in their teams in May? Because Jaylen Brown is.

Yet he didn't even get voted to the rising stars game - rediculous, right?

Unfortunately that's what you get for being an underplayed rookie on a good team.  It's all about numbers, hence why Jalen Brown failed to make the Rising Stars game, while Michael Carter Williams won Rookie Of the Year. 

*shrugs*

Some rookies may well be ok with that, knowing they are contributing to a winning team.  But I would be willing to bet that their agents (who want to maximise their fame and star power) aren't going to be huge fans of that.

Look how many people raved about Jahlil Okafor last season, after he put up big numbers on one of the worst teams in NBA history.  Now this season with his reduced role, he's been pretty much hot garbage. 

Philly put he and Noel in those positions - significantly reduced their value as prospects by drafting too many bigs, and not being able to give them all minutes.  Now Noel (one of the most promising defensive prospects in the league) has been traded to Dallas for spare parts - Justin Anderson, Andrew Bogut (who pretty much can't walk at this stage) and two second round picks.  They also reportedly dangled Okafor at the deadline, and nobody was interested.

For rookies / prospects, their numbers largely determine their value around the league - and their agents are there for the purpose of trying to get them as much net worth as possible.  Playing reduced minutes on a good team is great for the player's experience, but it may not be so great for drawing attention to themselves or building a reputation.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 10:58:32 AM by crimson_stallion »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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This is nonsense. How many rookies are playing significant minutes in their teams in May? Because Jaylen Brown is.

Yet he didn't even get voted to the rising stars game - rediculous, right?

Unfortunately that's what you get for being an underplayed rookie on a good team.  It's all about numbers, hence why Jalen Brown failed to make the Rising Stars game, while Michael Carter Williams won Rookie Of the Year. 

*shrugs*

Some rookies may well be ok with that, knowing they are contributing to a winning team.  But I would be willing to bet that their agents (who want to maximise their fame and star power) aren't going to be huge fans of that.

Sadly this is true, but it is also relevant to who we pick. We have a culture here and we should take that into account when making the selection. As good as Ben Simmons is, I would hesitate to pick him over Jaylen. Time will tell for sure but their attitudes are polar opposite. I feel the same about this draft. I would pick Jackson or Tatum over Ball. I'd take Fultz over all of them, he seems to have a great outlook.

I would not be afraid of passing on the prima donna in this draft, or utilising the pickin a trade to avoid said prima donna. No room for that here

Offline crimson_stallion

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This is nonsense. How many rookies are playing significant minutes in their teams in May? Because Jaylen Brown is.

Yet he didn't even get voted to the rising stars game - rediculous, right?

Unfortunately that's what you get for being an underplayed rookie on a good team.  It's all about numbers, hence why Jalen Brown failed to make the Rising Stars game, while Michael Carter Williams won Rookie Of the Year. 

*shrugs*

Some rookies may well be ok with that, knowing they are contributing to a winning team.  But I would be willing to bet that their agents (who want to maximise their fame and star power) aren't going to be huge fans of that.

Sadly this is true, but it is also relevant to who we pick. We have a culture here and we should take that into account when making the selection. As good as Ben Simmons is, I would hesitate to pick him over Jaylen. Time will tell for sure but their attitudes are polar opposite. I feel the same about this draft. I would pick Jackson or Tatum over Ball. I'd take Fultz over all of them, he seems to have a great outlook.

I would not be afraid of passing on the prima donna in this draft, or utilising the pickin a trade to avoid said prima donna. No room for that here

I would have taken Summons over Jaylen Brown without hessitation - no insult to Jaylen, but Simmons is a "two or three per generation" type talent and if he gets himself together he could be a transcendent player (like Lebron / Durant / Kobe / KG caliber).  Jaylen could be a very good player, but I don't think he'll ever be considered in that discussion.

This season though I mostly agree with you.  I'm incredibly high on Tatum - in some ways I feel he may even have more upside then Fultz, crazy as it sounds.  But Fultz is the best player in the draft, and if you get #1 you really have to take him. 

At #2 Tatum is a complete no brainer for me.

Beyond #2 I'm just not that interested.  I see very limited upside in Jackson, who seems to be a better passing version of Michael Kidd Gilchrist / Tony Snell and really doesn't look to have anything resembling star potential. 

So if I HAD to choose at #3, I'd take Ball.  But I'd much prefer to just trade the pick, since Ball would contribute even more to our existing logjam at the guard spot, and I just don't think he's good enough a prospect to justify trading out existing guys (Thomas / Bradley / Smart) to make way for. 

At #4 I'd definitely trade the pick.  Jackson can't play PF right now, and he probably never will be able to because of that p---ant frame.  We already have Crowder and Brown at SF, and I don't see Jackson eclipsing either of those two guys any time soon...so I'd much rather just trade the pick and try to bring back a star or a starting caliber PF.

Offline Moranis

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This is nonsense. How many rookies are playing significant minutes in their teams in May? Because Jaylen Brown is.

Yet he didn't even get voted to the rising stars game - rediculous, right?

Unfortunately that's what you get for being an underplayed rookie on a good team.  It's all about numbers, hence why Jalen Brown failed to make the Rising Stars game, while Michael Carter Williams won Rookie Of the Year. 

*shrugs*

Some rookies may well be ok with that, knowing they are contributing to a winning team.  But I would be willing to bet that their agents (who want to maximise their fame and star power) aren't going to be huge fans of that.

Look how many people raved about Jahlil Okafor last season, after he put up big numbers on one of the worst teams in NBA history.  Now this season with his reduced role, he's been pretty much hot garbage. 

Philly put he and Noel in those positions - significantly reduced their value as prospects by drafting too many bigs, and not being able to give them all minutes.  Now Noel (one of the most promising defensive prospects in the league) has been traded to Dallas for spare parts - Justin Anderson, Andrew Bogut (who pretty much can't walk at this stage) and two second round picks.  They also reportedly dangled Okafor at the deadline, and nobody was interested.

For rookies / prospects, their numbers largely determine their value around the league - and their agents are there for the purpose of trying to get them as much net worth as possible.  Playing reduced minutes on a good team is great for the player's experience, but it may not be so great for drawing attention to themselves or building a reputation.
I don't think it is even all that good for their experience.  Look at how much faster and better Brown got when injuries forced him into a larger role.  Minutes matter not just for stats, notoriety, etc., but also for actual development. 

I've been saying all year that there aren't enough minutes to go around so Boston has to either trade the draft pick or open up some room for him to play, you just can't plodding along without making changes as this is what starts to happen.  At least 2 of the guards/wings have to be moved this offseason, which is why I would have no problem moving 3 of them for someone like Butler or George or moving 1 of them for someone like Carmelo Anthony (who would play PF here).  Boston can't just keep going like this.
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Offline PickNRoll

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This is nonsense. How many rookies are playing significant minutes in their teams in May? Because Jaylen Brown is.

Yet he didn't even get voted to the rising stars game - rediculous, right?

Unfortunately that's what you get for being an underplayed rookie on a good team.  It's all about numbers, hence why Jalen Brown failed to make the Rising Stars game, while Michael Carter Williams won Rookie Of the Year. 

*shrugs*

Some rookies may well be ok with that, knowing they are contributing to a winning team.  But I would be willing to bet that their agents (who want to maximise their fame and star power) aren't going to be huge fans of that.

Sadly this is true, but it is also relevant to who we pick. We have a culture here and we should take that into account when making the selection. As good as Ben Simmons is, I would hesitate to pick him over Jaylen. Time will tell for sure but their attitudes are polar opposite. I feel the same about this draft. I would pick Jackson or Tatum over Ball. I'd take Fultz over all of them, he seems to have a great outlook.

I would not be afraid of passing on the prima donna in this draft, or utilising the pickin a trade to avoid said prima donna. No room for that here

I would have taken Summons over Jaylen Brown without hessitation - no insult to Jaylen, but Simmons is a "two or three per generation" type talent and if he gets himself together he could be a transcendent player (like Lebron / Durant / Kobe / KG caliber).  Jaylen could be a very good player, but I don't think he'll ever be considered in that discussion.

This season though I mostly agree with you.  I'm incredibly high on Tatum - in some ways I feel he may even have more upside then Fultz, crazy as it sounds.  But Fultz is the best player in the draft, and if you get #1 you really have to take him. 

At #2 Tatum is a complete no brainer for me.

Beyond #2 I'm just not that interested.  I see very limited upside in Jackson, who seems to be a better passing version of Michael Kidd Gilchrist / Tony Snell and really doesn't look to have anything resembling star potential. 

So if I HAD to choose at #3, I'd take Ball.  But I'd much prefer to just trade the pick, since Ball would contribute even more to our existing logjam at the guard spot, and I just don't think he's good enough a prospect to justify trading out existing guys (Thomas / Bradley / Smart) to make way for. 

At #4 I'd definitely trade the pick.  Jackson can't play PF right now, and he probably never will be able to because of that p---ant frame.  We already have Crowder and Brown at SF, and I don't see Jackson eclipsing either of those two guys any time soon...so I'd much rather just trade the pick and try to bring back a star or a starting caliber PF.
Jackson's IQ is off the charts.  A 6-8", 207lb athlete with point forward skills who can guard 2 positions on day 1.  :o  What's not to like about his frame? 

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
At #2 Tatum is a complete no brainer for me.

So you and Jay Bilas probably think that this is the case.   Almost no NBA scouts think that Tatum is the consensus number two pick.

After game one of the ECF, some guys might think I could break into this lineup,  so I think we can put this to rest.