Al Horford averaging 15 points, 6 assists, 9.5 rebounds in this playoff series.

[Dino Pitino]

I mentioned it upthread, but I'll put it as a question: In this postseason so far, has Horford been almost as good or just as good as having the 2012 version of KG?

[Monkhouse]

I've NEVER ever understood the hate for Horford on this board.

Yes, he's not aggressive enough. But he fits the system like a glove. He's an complimentary 3rd player, but an very IMPORTANT one. Vital to any core team, passing, defensive abilities, intangibles off the court, and his overall professionalism, as many have posted previously before about his leadership. Worst case, he can be your 2nd go to option, but you're probably not going to go that far.

Let's just put this out there...

Horford isn't an ideal max contract, but since we signed him, he's been scoring in bunches. In assists.

mmmmm pretty put the icing on the cake.

Horford's stats:

Regular season:  14 points, 5.0 assists, 6.8 rebounds in 32.3 mpg.

Playoffs:  16.1 points, 7.0 assists, 8.6 rebounds in 34.0 mpg.

For those who don't think those stat lines are impressive, it's probably because they don't consider the value of the assists.

Per NBA.com's Player Tracking data, Horford's assists resulted in 12.0 points per game in the regular season and so far 17.1 points per game in the playoffs.  I.E., between points scored and assisted, Horford created 26 per game in the regular season and so far 33.2 per game in the playoffs.

If Horford had posted a stat line of 24 points, 1 assist and 6.8 rebounds in the regular season, would that have been more to their liking?

Or, say, 30 points,  1 assist and 8.6 rebounds in these playoffs?   Would that finally transform him into a 'max player' for those otherwise still doubting?

But the effect on the scoreboard of those two 'alternative reality' stat lines isn't any better than the real stat lines that he actually has posted.

Is Ibaka really that much better than Horford? He's an spot up shooter, with absolutely little to none offensive game.... Yes, he does fit Stevens system pretty well, and has quicker lateral abilities, stretches the floor, and can perform switches. But so can Horford... He's just not as good, but his other pros should outweigh his cons. He's always been an consistent motor to any offense, and any team. He's a team first guy, that everyone can respect and desire to soak knowledge from, because he's been tried and proven.

Again.

Ibaka would have costed assets. You guys talk about how cheap he is, and how easy it would to be to get him, but he isn't going get us over the top. Then we would still have to pay him anyways.

I certainly don't think there is that much of a distinction between Ibaka or Horford. But just like Horford, Ibaka will certainly be one of the top free agents available, due to availability and what moves are made by opposing teams.

[mmmmm]

In no way, in this reality or the next, is Ibaka close to the level of basketball player that Al Horford is.

He's not.  Seriously.  Why is this a discussion?   Maybe 4 years ago, in his peak, Serge was perhaps close to the level that Al is right now.  But that was 4 years ago.  Ibaka is a shell of that player.

And even at his best, Ibaka was never the versatile do-everything-that-makes-all-his-teammates-better type of player that Horford is.

[Ilikesports17]

I mentioned it upthread, but I'll put it as a question: In this postseason so far, has Horford been almost as good or just as good as having the 2012 version of KG?

way better offense, probably not as good defensively.

[Moranis]

I'm a bit confused by the notion that Ibaka is a shell of himself.  He just set his career high in ppg, 3 point attempts and percentage, etc.  Playing more outside so rebounding a bit less and blocking fewer shots, but overall a pretty similar player to his supposed peak and that is with learning two new teams this season.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

I mentioned it upthread, but I'll put it as a question: In this postseason so far, has Horford been almost as good or just as good as having the 2012 version of KG?

way better offense, probably not as good defensively.

You could say this of the 2017 roster compared to the 2012 roster too

[RockinRyA]

I'm a bit confused by the notion that Ibaka is a shell of himself.  He just set his career high in ppg, 3 point attempts and percentage, etc.  Playing more outside so rebounding a bit less and blocking fewer shots, but overall a pretty similar player to his supposed peak and that is with learning two new teams this season.

/
Lol how is playing more outside affecting his shotblocking? Do you get blocks on offense?

[LilRip]

I don't see how anyone can assert that Ibaka and Horford are the same on offense. They can shoot from the perimeter and can finish the lob pass but it pretty much ends there. Let's watch Game 2 of Raps-Cavs and I wonder how often they'll throw it into Ibaka in the post to create for his teammates.

[Casperian]

Horford's stats:

Regular season:  14 points, 5.0 assists, 6.8 rebounds in 32.3 mpg.

Playoffs:  16.1 points, 7.0 assists, 8.6 rebounds in 34.0 mpg.

For those who don't think those stat lines are impressive, it's probably because they don't consider the value of the assists.

Per NBA.com's Player Tracking data, Horford's assists resulted in 12.0 points per game in the regular season and so far 17.1 points per game in the playoffs.  I.E., between points scored and assisted, Horford created 26 per game in the regular season and so far 33.2 per game in the playoffs.

If Horford had posted a stat line of 24 points, 1 assist and 6.8 rebounds in the regular season, would that have been more to their liking?

Or, say, 30 points,  1 assist and 8.6 rebounds in these playoffs?   Would that finally transform him into a 'max player' for those otherwise still doubting?

But the effect on the scoreboard of those two 'alternative reality' stat lines isn't any better than the real stat lines that he actually has posted.

That's a very, very simplified interpretation of stats. You know better than that. 1 assist doesn't simply equal 2 points. You can have passes that should be assists, but the receiver bricks it, and you can have points without receiving the ball. It all depends on your role on offense, or better, on the specific plays, in context to the rest of your team, and your oppponent.

Regardless, you're still right. Al Horford is an infinitely better player than Serge Ibaka, and was totally worth it.

[cman88]

look at it this way. even with IT being as good as he is this year. do we get this far without Horford and sullinger in his place? Probably not....

he is a big part of our offense

[SHAQATTACK]

my hats off Horford did the mature thing , by not retaliating against Morris .  Morris tried to start a fight , which if Al goes for the bait only hurts th Celtics in the trade out of players more. 

[Eja117]

The best thing about Horford in these playoffs is that he isn't getting routinely outrebounded by our point guards any more.  I'm looking forward to the arrival of Zizic and Yab.

[mmmmm]

Horford's stats:

Regular season:  14 points, 5.0 assists, 6.8 rebounds in 32.3 mpg.

Playoffs:  16.1 points, 7.0 assists, 8.6 rebounds in 34.0 mpg.

For those who don't think those stat lines are impressive, it's probably because they don't consider the value of the assists.

Per NBA.com's Player Tracking data, Horford's assists resulted in 12.0 points per game in the regular season and so far 17.1 points per game in the playoffs.  I.E., between points scored and assisted, Horford created 26 per game in the regular season and so far 33.2 per game in the playoffs.

If Horford had posted a stat line of 24 points, 1 assist and 6.8 rebounds in the regular season, would that have been more to their liking?

Or, say, 30 points,  1 assist and 8.6 rebounds in these playoffs?   Would that finally transform him into a 'max player' for those otherwise still doubting?

But the effect on the scoreboard of those two 'alternative reality' stat lines isn't any better than the real stat lines that he actually has posted.

That's a very, very simplified interpretation of stats. You know better than that. 1 assist doesn't simply equal 2 points. You can have passes that should be assists, but the receiver bricks it, and you can have points without receiving the ball. It all depends on your role on offense, or better, on the specific plays, in context to the rest of your team, and your oppponent.

Regardless, you're still right. Al Horford is an infinitely better player than Serge Ibaka, and was totally worth it.

Nothing simplified at all.  The 'points created by assist' numbers used here are the actual points created off of Al's assists, as tracked by NBA/SportsVU Player Tracking.

[SparzWizard]

my hats off Horford did the mature thing , by not retaliating against Morris .  Morris tried to start a fight , which if Al goes for the bait only hurts th Celtics in the trade out of players more.

Horford is a 30-year old matured man.
Markieff Morris is only 21 lol.

Mop the floor outta that thug with Oubre and Jennings.

[Big333223]

my hats off Horford did the mature thing , by not retaliating against Morris .  Morris tried to start a fight , which if Al goes for the bait only hurts th Celtics in the trade out of players more.

Horford is a 30-year old matured man.
Markieff Morris is only 21 lol.

Mop the floor outta that thug with Oubre and Jennings.

The Morris twins are 27.