Author Topic: No way Yabusele plays overseas  (Read 14877 times)

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Re: No way Yabusele plays overseas
« Reply #90 on: July 10, 2016, 02:58:21 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Not moving the goalposts. When highly regarded 1st round players with immense talent come in and show from the get go they deserve minutes, then they have earned them. But those without immense talent, those players that are often chosen late in the first round, the second round or are undrafted, they have to earn a spot by showing they are better than the guys in front of them.

You've said that Marcus Smart has 'immense talent', and after watching him for two years, I completely disagree, and yes, you're moving the goalposts.  When we discussed the issue of player development ad nauseam, a player's draft position was never mentioned.  All you kept saying, which I accept, btw, is that if so-and-so is good enough to play, the coach will play them, even if some of the best coaches make mistakes like Rick Carlisle with Jae Crowder, but that's neither here nor there, at the minute.  What's important is that a player's draft position was never part of the playing time equation as you explained it to me.  If Marcus Smart has such 'immense talent', why did Stevens entrust Terry Rozier, a ROOKIE who was picked 10 spots lower than Smart, with being the primary ball handler during the playoffs when he was out there, and why did RJ Hunter receive more playing time during his rookie year than James Young did in his second, despite the difference in draft position between those two, at 28 and 17, respectively, not to mention the fact that Young had more NBA experience than Hunter?  Could it be that a person's draft position is not always indicative of their talent level (sarcasm)?  Could it be that some guys work harder than others (sarcasm)? 

I thought the whole point of this team is that nothing is given and that everything is earned, as you pointed out, but then you come back and say that while the higher picks earn minutes by proving their worth from day one, while the lower level draft picks have to earn minutes by proving that they're better than the guy(s) in front of them? ::) Umm, what?  Isn't the latter the whole point, in the first place, team-wise, or is that only reserved for the 'lower classes' aboard the Titanic? ::)

Just because Jaylen Brown was the 3rd pick in the draft shouldn't mean that he gets an easier road to becoming a fixture in the rotation, because he's certainly not starting, this year, barring injuries or him making a quantum leap, which may very well be possible, but the point, here, is that if he wants to be the first wing off of the bench or even a fixture of the rotation, which often seems like a game of musical chairs under Stevens, lol, he has to earn those minutes by proving that he's better than the other guys IN FRONT OF HIM, right, because that's how you explained it to me, and especially on a team filled with castoffs, preferential treatment of any kind just doesn't seem to be in line with the way that this team operates. 

You also said that veterans are not interested in developing young guys, so again, doesn't EVERYONE have to beat out their competition for playing time regardless of how things panned out on draft night?  Are not all things equal in regards to earning playing time?  I'm only using what your words, here.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 04:23:13 AM by Beat LA »

Re: No way Yabusele plays overseas
« Reply #91 on: July 10, 2016, 03:21:32 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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You've said that Marcus Smart has 'immense talent', and after watching him for two years, I completely disagree, and yes, you're moving the goalposts.  When we discussed the issue of player development ad nauseam, a player's draft position was never mentioned.  All you kept saying, which I accept, btw, is that if so-and-so is good enough to play, the coach will play them, even if some of the best coaches make mistakes like Rick Carlisle with Jae Crowder, but that's neither here nor there, at the minute.  What's important is that a player's draft position was never part of the playing time equation as you explained it to me.  If Marcus Smart has such 'immense talent', why did Stevens entrust Terry Rozier, a ROOKIE who was picked 10 spots lower than Smart, with being the primary ball handler during the playoffs when he was out there, and why did RJ Hunter receive more playing time during his rookie year than James Young did in his second, despite the difference in draft position between those two, at 28 and 17, respectively, not to mention the fact that Young had more NBA experience than Hunter?  Could it be that a person's draft position is not always indicative of their talent level (sarcasm)?  Could it be that some guys work harder than others (sarcasm)? 

I thought the whole point of this team is that nothing is given and that everything is earned, as you pointed out, but then you come back and say that while the higher picks earn minutes by proving their worth from day one, while the lower level draft picks have to earn minutes by proving that they're better than the guy(s) in front of them? ::) Umm, what?  Isn't the latter the whole point, in the first place, team-wise, or is that only reserved for the 'lower classes' aboard the Titanic? ::)

Just because Jaylen Brown was the 3rd pick in the draft shouldn't mean that he gets an easier road to becoming a fixture in the rotation, because he's certainly not starting, this year, barring injuries or him making a quantum leap, which may very well be possible, but the point, here, is that if he wants to be the first wing off of the bench or even a fixture of the rotation, which often seems like a game of musical chairs under Stevens, lol, he has to earn those minutes by proving that he's better than the other guys IN FRONT OF HIM, right, because that's how you explained it to me, and especially on a team filled with castoffs, preferential treatment of any kind just doesn't seem to be in line with the way that this team operates. 

You also said that veterans are not interested in developing young guys, so again, doesn't EVERYONE have to beat out their competition for playing time regardless of how things panned out on draft night?  Are not all things equal in regards to earning playing time?  I'm only using what your words, here.

I agree with most of what you are saying, however there is one key considering that i think is hard to ignore. 

Jaylen Brown, as a #3 pick, is going to make substantially more money then a guy like Terry Rozier or Jordan Mickey. 

It's much easier to bench / D-League a guy who is making $2m-$3m over the his first two seasons, then it is to bench / D-League a guy who is making $9m a year over his first two seasons.

Also if you chose a guy at #3 then you must have selected him that high for a reason - either because you believe he can contribute right away, or because he has tremendous upside.  If you think the former, then it makes sense to play the guy.  If you believe the latter, then it makes sense to want to force feed the guy playing time so he can develop and realise that potential.

I think there is also a lot more pressure on a GM externally to play a high lottery pick, as oppose to a late lottery pick or worse.  People want justification for the selection - fans want to see the guy play, owners want to see a return on their investment. 

Re: No way Yabusele plays overseas
« Reply #92 on: July 10, 2016, 03:37:37 AM »

Offline ashanm10

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You've said that Marcus Smart has 'immense talent', and after watching him for two years, I completely disagree, and yes, you're moving the goalposts.  When we discussed the issue of player development ad nauseam, a player's draft position was never mentioned.  All you kept saying, which I accept, btw, is that if so-and-so is good enough to play, the coach will play them, even if some of the best coaches make mistakes like Rick Carlisle with Jae Crowder, but that's neither here nor there, at the minute.  What's important is that a player's draft position was never part of the playing time equation as you explained it to me.  If Marcus Smart has such 'immense talent', why did Stevens entrust Terry Rozier, a ROOKIE who was picked 10 spots lower than Smart, with being the primary ball handler during the playoffs when he was out there, and why did RJ Hunter receive more playing time during his rookie year than James Young did in his second, despite the difference in draft position between those two, at 28 and 17, respectively, not to mention the fact that Young had more NBA experience than Hunter?  Could it be that a person's draft position is not always indicative of their talent level (sarcasm)?  Could it be that some guys work harder than others (sarcasm)? 

I thought the whole point of this team is that nothing is given and that everything is earned, as you pointed out, but then you come back and say that while the higher picks earn minutes by proving their worth from day one, while the lower level draft picks have to earn minutes by proving that they're better than the guy(s) in front of them? ::) Umm, what?  Isn't the latter the whole point, in the first place, team-wise, or is that only reserved for the 'lower classes' aboard the Titanic? ::)

Just because Jaylen Brown was the 3rd pick in the draft shouldn't mean that he gets an easier road to becoming a fixture in the rotation, because he's certainly not starting, this year, barring injuries or him making a quantum leap, which may very well be possible, but the point, here, is that if he wants to be the first wing off of the bench or even a fixture of the rotation, which often seems like a game of musical chairs under Stevens, lol, he has to earn those minutes by proving that he's better than the other guys IN FRONT OF HIM, right, because that's how you explained it to me, and especially on a team filled with castoffs, preferential treatment of any kind just doesn't seem to be in line with the way that this team operates. 

You also said that veterans are not interested in developing young guys, so again, doesn't EVERYONE have to beat out their competition for playing time regardless of how things panned out on draft night?  Are not all things equal in regards to earning playing time?  I'm only using what your words, here.

I agree with most of what you are saying, however there is one key considering that i think is hard to ignore. 

Jaylen Brown, as a #3 pick, is going to make substantially more money then a guy like Terry Rozier or Jordan Mickey. 

It's much easier to bench / D-League a guy who is making $2m-$3m over the his first two seasons, then it is to bench / D-League a guy who is making $9m a year over his first two seasons.

Also if you chose a guy at #3 then you must have selected him that high for a reason - either because you believe he can contribute right away, or because he has tremendous upside.  If you think the former, then it makes sense to play the guy.  If you believe the latter, then it makes sense to want to force feed the guy playing time so he can develop and realise that potential.

I think there is also a lot more pressure on a GM externally to play a high lottery pick, as oppose to a late lottery pick or worse.  People want justification for the selection - fans want to see the guy play, owners want to see a return on their investment.

sorry i just read this post here but i noticed something and wanted to point it out above in bold.

this would occur if a franchise is basically in a rebuilding type of mode but remember we are a playoff team lol ^^ Ofcs people would like to see why we chose whoever the talent is and to see how it could pan out but ye in our case, pressure is ok for the incoming talents :) i think :P (just woke up xd dont mind me XD)
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Re: No way Yabusele plays overseas
« Reply #93 on: July 10, 2016, 04:20:39 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Just because we got Horford does not mean we can ignore the development of our youth.
It also doesn't mean you give valuable roster spots to players that won't contribute to the team this year. Yabusele can develop overseas playing against established professionals. Bentil and Jackson can develop overseas or decide to sign a contract in the D League. You can develop players without having them on the roster. Look at what the C's did with Iverson and Thornton.



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My wife collects nerd things like comicbooks and action figures.  We go to Comiccons pretty often.  She's had her picture taken with or gotten 8x10's signed by a bunch of people she likes.  She has a "Captain Wall" where a handful of those pictures hang.

Nathan Fillion - "Captain Reynolds" - Firefly
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Edward James Olmos - Technically "Commander" Adama and not a Captain - BSG

A couple weeks ago Isaiah Thomas was at a local sports card shop here in Washington State, so I stopped by and got him to sign an 8x10.   I stuck his picture on the Captain Wall, much the chagrin of my wife.   Technically, I don't think Thomas has officially been named Captain of the Celtics, but I think he participates in the typical "Captain duties" assigned to NBA team Captains.  Also, since I pointed out that Adama is actually a "Commander", I felt Thomas belonged.  Coincidentally, as I walked by the "Captain Wall" a couple days ago, I accidentally caused Thomas' picture to fall off.   I'm taking it as a sign.  Unless Thomas is officially named Captain, he doesn't belong.  My wife was right.
You have to get her an autographed Johnny Depp picture. Captain Jack Sparrow
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