By how much do you guys think Butler is better than Crowder?

[Beat LA]

All star vs Good role player

Well said, TP.  Jae Crowder is to Jimmy Butler as Denzel Valentine is to Draymond Green, imo.

Crowder per-36:  16.2 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2 steals with 44%/34%/82% shooting

Butler per-36:  20.4 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.6 steals 45%/31%/83%

Butler has a usage rate of 23.9

Crowder has a usage rate of 17.6

That's 1.36x higher usage rate.   This math makes no [dang] sense, but let's multiply Crowder's Per-36 points and assists by 1.36:  22 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 2 steals with 44%/34%/82%

Butler's like 10% better at most.  Role matters.  Jae took 11.1 shots per game.   Butler took 15.4 shots per game.  Crowder was actually a better 3-point shooter last season.   Difference is, Crowder was contributing to a playoff team and Butler was leading his team to the lottery. 


They went to the same school.   Compare their college stats.

2011-12 Crowder Sophomore stats:  17.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2.5 steals, 1 block with 50%/35%/76% shooting in 32.9mpg.

2010-11 Butler Junior stats:  15.7 points, 6.1 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.4 blocks, 49%/35%/78% in 34.6mpg

Crowder was better as a 2nd year college player than Butler was as a 3rd year College player.   Obviously both have improved.  Maybe Butler has improved more.  But Butler is also pretty overrated.  Premium Brand Ricky Davis.  Role matters.  I'll tell you one thing... trading #3 + Crowder for Butler would have been a bad move.

Maybe Butler has improved more? Wow, lol . This is why numbers never tell the whole story and why you should watch the both of them play before making any kind of judgement of them, because they're not even close as players, imo.  Crowder, for example, can't even go left, lol, but beyond that, you're right, role matters.  The only problem with your analysis of their college play, which is irrelevant, imo, is that you fail to apply the same criteria, in terms of shots per game, for both of them at the collegiate level, so let's examine it, closer, in the years that you selected.

In 2010-11, Butler and Crowder were actually on the same team, with Butler being a Junior and Crowder a freshman.  During said campaign, Jimmy attempted the most shots per game of his career, at 10.3, while Crowder took 8.8.

Meanwhile, in his sophomore year, Crowder took more shots than Butler ever did at any time while at Marquette at a 12.5 clip.  In Jimmy's sophomore season, he only attempted 8.2 shots per game, but the telling difference between the two players, imo, which has translated to the pros, is free throw attempts per game.

As a freshman, playing with Wesley Matthews, Butler only took 3.1 shots from the field per game, in addition to attempting 3.2 free throws per contest.  Unfortunately, we don't have his minutes played for that season, but in comparison, in 27.6 mpg as a freshman, Crowder shot 3.4 free throws per game, in what appears to be a much larger role when you factor in his 8.8 field goal attempts per game, as opposed to said rate for Butler.

However, when comparing both of their sophomore seasons, what jumps out as the main difference between the two guys, imo, is, again, free throw attempts per game.  With Butler gone, Crowder played 5.3 more minutes per game and took more shots than Jimmy ever did, as I've stated (sorry for repeating myself, btw), yet his free throw attempts per game only slightly increased from 3.4 in 10-11 to 4.6 in 11-12.

In stark contrast, and in similar playing time (34.3 for Butler in 09-10 to 32.9 for Jae in 11-12), Jimmy's free throw attempts more than doubled from 3.2 per game during his freshman year to 7.2 in his junior campaign, which is a large part of why he was still able to score 14.7 ppg despite taking only 8.2 shots per game.  During his junior season, Jimmy attempted 6.5 free throws per game in virtually the same amount of minutes, yet his overall field goal percentage for his career trumps Crowder's at .508 to .492, respectively, not to mention his significantly better free throw percentage over Jae's at .773 for his career to Crowder's .683. 

Finally, their per 40 minutes play largely favors Butler, with him attempting 8.4 in his sophomore season as opposed to 5.6 for Crowder in his sophomore year.  Not surprisingly, this has translated to the NBA, which, along with Butler's ability to finish with both hands, create his own shot, get to the basket, and score in the post, make him the far superior player, in my view.  Here are their college profiles from basketballreference.com -

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jimmy-butler-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jae-crowder-1.html

Forget Jimmy Butler, Crowder isn't anywhere near Wesley Matthews, imo, lol .

[SHAQATTACK]

I think Butler  is an upgrade for MOST stats  kept for those how look up numbers.   

Still think they fairly diff players . Crowder is stronger and tuffer built and I believe able to butt heads with larger guys easier.

I'm not sure Jimmy is an upgrade as a role model or leader type .   While not a Westbrooke ,  Bulter is more,of,the egotist type and more independent type to my thinking.

Butler would fit in . ........as good as Crowder .....as a team mate and team player ? .? 

I see their roles a bit different .

i would prefer Bulter to AB .....given the choice and keep Crowder.

[chambers]

Crowder per-36:  16.2 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2 steals with 44%/34%/82% shooting

Butler per-36:  20.4 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.6 steals 45%/31%/83%

Butler has a usage rate of 23.9

Crowder has a usage rate of 17.6

That's 1.36x higher usage rate.   This math makes no [dang] sense, but let's multiply Crowder's Per-36 points and assists by 1.36:  22 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 2 steals with 44%/34%/82%

Butler's like 10% better at most.  Role matters.  Jae took 11.1 shots per game.   Butler took 15.4 shots per game.  Crowder was actually a better 3-point shooter last season.   Difference is, Crowder was contributing to a playoff team and Butler was leading his team to the lottery. 


They went to the same school.   Compare their college stats.

2011-12 Crowder Sophomore stats:  17.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2.5 steals, 1 block with 50%/35%/76% shooting in 32.9mpg.

2010-11 Butler Junior stats:  15.7 points, 6.1 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.4 blocks, 49%/35%/78% in 34.6mpg

Crowder was better as a 2nd year college player than Butler was as a 3rd year College player.   Obviously both have improved.  Maybe Butler has improved more.  But Butler is also pretty overrated.  Premium Brand Ricky Davis.  Role matters.  I'll tell you one thing... trading #3 + Crowder for Butler would have been a bad move.

The difference is that Crowder scores when other players create.
Crowder can't create offense for himself.
The problem with statistical comparisons is that Butler gets to the line when needed, and also has the ability to carry a team offensively in the crunch time.

Those two abilities on their own make the difference much more than 10% in critical playoff games.

If it's game 7 of a playoff series, and you have the option to give Butler the shot or Jae the shot, who do you give it to? You give the ball to Jimmy 100% of the time because Butler is the alpha scorer...Jae is the guy that Butler passes to when the defense collapses on Butler.

Jimmy's TS% being slightly better on more shots per game is a gap that widens even further as Crowder takes more shots per game.
Crowder isn't shooting the same percentages on the same amount of shots as Butler.