Which 2017 line up do you prefer? -Love or Barnes at PF?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

[wiley]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

I think the Rubio quote was the single most damaging as far as the image thing.  Said he wasn't exactly a leader.  Since then there's a microscope on him when he opens his mouth.  I think if he was a good defender a lot of it would go away, but he's not.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

I think the Rubio quote was the single most damaging as far as the image thing.  Said he wasn't exactly a leader.  Since then there's a microscope on him when he opens his mouth.  I think if he was a good defender a lot of it would go away, but he's not.

You're talking of one sole instant...

[wiley]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

I think the Rubio quote was the single most damaging as far as the image thing.  Said he wasn't exactly a leader.  Since then there's a microscope on him when he opens his mouth.  I think if he was a good defender a lot of it would go away, but he's not.

You're talking of one sole instant...

What I meant was that Rubio's criticism of Love was the first not-nice thing we heard about Love, IIRC.  And I think it started some of the more realistic evaluation of Love's game than had come prior, which was all praise all the time because of his big numbers...on offense.

[CelticSince83]

tough call -- PF is where we have the most bodies so I see it as the last place I would focus on upgrading.  I also see Barnes value as a SF, not a PF

Love -- proven 20/10 player when he's the top dog.  not much of a defender.
Barnes - good defender, not much of a scorer or rebounder.

Basically this.  You can't have Harrison Barnes as your PF.  He can certainly play there when your opponent goes small, but it's not like the entire league is playing the Warrior's Death Line-Up 48 minutes a game, 82 games a year. 

[wiley]

tough call -- PF is where we have the most bodies so I see it as the last place I would focus on upgrading.  I also see Barnes value as a SF, not a PF

Love -- proven 20/10 player when he's the top dog.  not much of a defender.
Barnes - good defender, not much of a scorer or rebounder.

Basically this.  You can't have Harrison Barnes as your PF.  He can certainly play there when your opponent goes small, but it's not like the entire league is playing the Warrior's Death Line-Up 48 minutes a game, 82 games a year.

Yeah the choice we're given suffers a a bit because he's not really a PF.  Paul George plays PF a lot this year but they don't start him there against teams with bigger front courts.  How big is HB verses PG.  I think of PG as bigger but who knows...And then PG is a superstar which always = more versatility.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

I think the Rubio quote was the single most damaging as far as the image thing.  Said he wasn't exactly a leader.  Since then there's a microscope on him when he opens his mouth.  I think if he was a good defender a lot of it would go away, but he's not.

You're talking of one sole instant...

What I meant was that Rubio's criticism of Love was the first not-nice thing we heard about Love, IIRC.  And I think it started some of the more realistic evaluation of Love's game than had come prior, which was all praise all the time because of his big numbers...on offense.

Oh, but nah, there were plenty of rumblings prior to that. Which is not a big deal really, not everyone has to like each other particularly on a losing team. It does seem like there's a pattern of him rubbing people the wrong way. I guess toxic is too strong a word, but yeah, just a guy you really don't want to be around with from all I've gathered.

But as I said, that is the least of it... that's the last feather. He could be the sweetest guy, and I'd still be very averse on giving a lot of value to him because of contract, production/efficiency, and defense.

[ssspence]

Barnes

[chambers]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

Lots of reports about being a bad team mate? I haven't read them.
Always deflecting blame to others? That just sounds like your opinion.  There's no clear evidence for either.

His style of play is that of a guy who has been and arguably still has the ability to be,  a top 10 NBA player.
His numbers are great, he's not getting enough shots.
If he took the same anount of shots that he took in Minny he'd be a 25 point acorer with at least 10 rebounds a game.
The Cavs having shooting 10-12 shots per game with nothing around the rim, and he's still averaged 16 and 10 for the majority of this season.
I can't see how a guy with his numbers can be overpaid on 23 million a year-his numbers are reflective of how much ball he's getting.

Name another player in the league getting the same shots and doing as well as he is?

Crowder is great, but he's no where near as good as Kevin Love.
Crowder is the kind if guy that every team needs. But you know what this team needs more right now?
A guy that can average 25 points and 10 rebounds shooting 35%+ from three.

Kevin Love is a better player than Crowder.
Anyone who says otherwise is a homer or has their priorities mixed up about what constitutes a championship NBA team.

It doesn't matter either way because the reality is that Danny Ainge would trade Jae Crowder for Kevin Love in a heartbeat.

[SHAQATTACK]

Not trading KO in a deal for,Love .

KO dun broke the punks arm .....

KO is going to be all around better player in the end.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

Lots of reports about being a bad team mate? I haven't read them.
Always deflecting blame to others? That just sounds like your opinion.  There's no clear evidence for either.

His style of play is that of a guy who has been and arguably still has the ability to be,  a top 10 NBA player.
His numbers are great, he's not getting enough shots.
If he took the same anount of shots that he took in Minny he'd be a 25 point acorer with at least 10 rebounds a game.
The Cavs having shooting 10-12 shots per game with nothing around the rim, and he's still averaged 16 and 10 for the majority of this season.
I can't see how a guy with his numbers can be overpaid on 23 million a year-his numbers are reflective of how much ball he's getting.

Name another player in the league getting the same shots and doing as well as he is?

Crowder is great, but he's no where near as good as Kevin Love.
Crowder is the kind if guy that every team needs. But you know what this team needs more right now?
A guy that can average 25 points and 10 rebounds shooting 35%+ from three.

Kevin Love is a better player than Crowder.
Anyone who says otherwise is a homer or has their priorities mixed up about what constitutes a championship NBA team.

It doesn't matter either way because the reality is that Danny Ainge would trade Jae Crowder for Kevin Love in a heartbeat.

By that logic, we give Crowder the amount of shots Love had Minnesota and he'll also be a 25 point scorer, but can defend to boot. Oh, and he shoots 35%+ from 3s as well.

I don't think you appreciate how well Crowder is playing. I mean, there's a big question of whether this is sustainable, but to give you a bit of insight, he's scoring 17 points a game on 47.6% shooting over this last month. Previous month was 16 points on 46.4%. That's [dang] good.

But if you're good with a player who's barely shooting over 40%, 41.5% to be exact, and can't defend while making $22+ million per year just because he can also rebound, be my guest. I mean, he's playing with some of the best decoys in the league, and that's all he can manage? At least when Ray Allen and Paul Pierce played together with Garnett they managed to put together some of the most efficient seasons of their careers. Love is doing just the opposite. If that's what he has in store when you put together a good team, which would require for him to be the Robin to a Batman, then forget it.

All I'm saying that at this current juncture is hard to argue that Love is a more productive player to have than Crowder. I don't care about arguing about who's the better player, yadda yadda, because that's hardly the point, and a point I'm not making either.

As for Love's numbers, not sure what averaging 16 and 10 over most season means, but he's only had one month over 40% shooting, and the last two months he's been scoring 13 points a game on 38% shooting.

Anyways the argument is hardly about who the better player is, but Love's numbers haven't been "great" as you're trying to allude to. They've been hardly that. His rebounding is the only thing really sustaining him.

Not only do you want to give up one of the best bargains in the league right now, but two of them for this "awesome" player in Love? Sorry, but pass... an easy pass.

[chambers]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

Lots of reports about being a bad team mate? I haven't read them.
Always deflecting blame to others? That just sounds like your opinion.  There's no clear evidence for either.

His style of play is that of a guy who has been and arguably still has the ability to be,  a top 10 NBA player.
His numbers are great, he's not getting enough shots.
If he took the same anount of shots that he took in Minny he'd be a 25 point acorer with at least 10 rebounds a game.
The Cavs having shooting 10-12 shots per game with nothing around the rim, and he's still averaged 16 and 10 for the majority of this season.
I can't see how a guy with his numbers can be overpaid on 23 million a year-his numbers are reflective of how much ball he's getting.

Name another player in the league getting the same shots and doing as well as he is?

Crowder is great, but he's no where near as good as Kevin Love.
Crowder is the kind if guy that every team needs. But you know what this team needs more right now?
A guy that can average 25 points and 10 rebounds shooting 35%+ from three.

Kevin Love is a better player than Crowder.
Anyone who says otherwise is a homer or has their priorities mixed up about what constitutes a championship NBA team.

It doesn't matter either way because the reality is that Danny Ainge would trade Jae Crowder for Kevin Love in a heartbeat.

By that logic, we give Crowder the amount of shots Love had Minnesota and he'll also be a 25 point scorer, but can defend to boot. Oh, and he shoots 35%+ from 3s as well.

I don't think you appreciate how well Crowder is playing. I mean, there's a big question of whether this is sustainable, but to give you a bit of insight, he's scoring 17 points a game on 47.6% shooting over this last month. Previous month was 16 points on 46.4%. That's [dang] good.

But if you're good with a player who's barely shooting over 40%, 41.5% to be exact, and can't defend while making $22+ million per year just because he can also rebound, be my guest. I mean, he's playing with some of the best decoys in the league, and that's all he can manage? At least when Ray Allen and Paul Pierce played together with Garnett they managed to put together some of the most efficient seasons of their careers. Love is doing just the opposite. If that's what he has in store when you put together a good team, which would require for him to be the Robin to a Batman, then forget it.

All I'm saying that at this current juncture is hard to argue that Love is a more productive player to have than Crowder. I don't care about arguing about who's the better player, yadda yadda, because that's hardly the point, and a point I'm not making either.

As for Love's numbers, not sure what averaging 16 and 10 over most season means, but he's only had one month over 40% shooting, and the last two months he's been scoring 13 points a game on 38% shooting.

Anyways the argument is hardly about who the better player is, but Love's numbers haven't been "great" as you're trying to allude to. They've been hardly that. His rebounding is the only thing really sustaining him.

Not only do you want to give up one of the best bargains in the league right now, but two of them for this "awesome" player in Love? Sorry, but pass... an easy pass.

You can't compare Jae Crowder's offense under any similar logic by giving him more shots.
Despite Kevin Love's struggles, he still ranks 11th in RPM and 19th in BPM. He was awesome at the beginning of the season, but recently his play has dropped off especially with the reintegrating of the previously injured players like Kyrie and Shumpert.

And I think people underestimate just how impactful Kevin is even when he's struggling with his shot. Since the beginning of last year, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin ON the floor, the team as a whole posts a 116 ORTG and a 103 DRTG. LeBron in particular scores on a 58.6% TS percentage.

On the other hand, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin OFF the floor, the team posts a 110 ORTG and a 104 DRTG. LeBron scores on a mere 51.2% TS percentage. That's a significant disparity. It's clear that the respect Kevin gets from the outside as a shooter warps the defense so that LeBron can get much more open driving lanes, which is incredibly important at this stage of his career where he can't just blow by anyone at will anymore.

And finally there's the fact that Love has still been pretty [dang] good as far as production. Of course he's not going to be able to put up 26/14 again considering the talent on this roster. However, he's still averaging 18 ppg (55% TS), 12 rpg, and 3 apg per 36 minutes. Also he has a 20+ PER.
Jae Crowder isn't the focal point of the offense, he never has been and never will be.
Saying that I don't understand the value of Crowder's contract is ridiculous because I was one of his strongest advocates when I declared he was the next DeMare Carroll on a better contract than Carroll.
But guess what? Just because he's the next DeMare Carroll doesn't mean he's better than Kevin Love.
Kevin Love is a stretch power forward. His FG% is never going to be as good as other low post dominant PF's. He still bangs inside (when given the opportunity on offense) as seen in Minny when he got to the line 8 times a game. He currently gets to the line half as much. Did he suddenly change his game? Did he just hit a career wall? Or is he treading sand in a horrible basketball system that sticks him in the corner as a Ryan Anderson 2.0, watching Lebron, Kyre and JR Smith take all the shots?
You're saying people who would do this trade don't recognize Jae Crowder's value. Well that's not true, but I really think you're undervaluing (as much of the general NBA fan population is right now) how good Kevin Love is on the offensive end. You're stalking about his efficiency like he's a chucker?

-In Minny he put up a 48% 2 point FG average over six and a half seasons and has averaged 38.5% shooting threes since his third NBA season with an average of 5.5 attempts per game.
-His career TS% is 56.4%
-In his last full year in Minny he averaged almost 60% TS whilst taking 6.6 three point attempts per game.
That is the dictionary meaning of an offensive power house.

Jae Crowder couldn't dream of numbers like that. To be fair to Jae, Love couldn't dream of having the same defensive impact as Crowder, but Love is still a net positive defender and always has been, and with guys like Smart, Bradley and Amir Johnson (or whichever defensive studs Danny finds), he will be completely fine and free to concentrate on putting the ball in the basket.

When Love was on the floor with Rubio, Martin and Pekovic in Minny in 2013 they had the #1 offensive point differential in the NBA. like 7 points better than the Heat, better than the Spurs- and Love was the boss of that offense.

This crap that somehow Love is a locker room queen or doesn't take responsibility is completely far fetched and ridiculous.
People are acting like he's Tyson Chandler and he's got nothing left.
His numbers have always been awesome. Up until last year and this year when they went from awesome to very good as his role went from 'the man' to 'the third wheel'.

Nothing has changed except he's taken a smaller role in the offense and has had his shooting freedom completely shut down.

[Sixth Man]

Honestly I'm not sure I give up Crowder straight up for Love, let alone him and Thomas.

Agree 100%.  Plus, how much is K. Love going to want to be paid with the huge cap increase?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Since when is Love 'toxic'? Lol.

Since his Minnesota days lots of reports painted him as a bad teammate. Much of the same is seeming to have been happening with the Cavs in these two years. Always deflecting blame to others and never taking ownership of his own short-comings, which they are plenty.

Anyways, that's the least of my worries. I have no problem bringing bad apples to the team who can play. I do have a problem with his style of play, the money he makes, and the cost it would take to acquire him on top of it.

I don't think you guys appreciate how good of a contract Crowder is on, and the only thing Love has on Crowder, this current version of Crowder, is Love's rebounding. Little else.

Lots of reports about being a bad team mate? I haven't read them.
Always deflecting blame to others? That just sounds like your opinion.  There's no clear evidence for either.

His style of play is that of a guy who has been and arguably still has the ability to be,  a top 10 NBA player.
His numbers are great, he's not getting enough shots.
If he took the same anount of shots that he took in Minny he'd be a 25 point acorer with at least 10 rebounds a game.
The Cavs having shooting 10-12 shots per game with nothing around the rim, and he's still averaged 16 and 10 for the majority of this season.
I can't see how a guy with his numbers can be overpaid on 23 million a year-his numbers are reflective of how much ball he's getting.

Name another player in the league getting the same shots and doing as well as he is?

Crowder is great, but he's no where near as good as Kevin Love.
Crowder is the kind if guy that every team needs. But you know what this team needs more right now?
A guy that can average 25 points and 10 rebounds shooting 35%+ from three.

Kevin Love is a better player than Crowder.
Anyone who says otherwise is a homer or has their priorities mixed up about what constitutes a championship NBA team.

It doesn't matter either way because the reality is that Danny Ainge would trade Jae Crowder for Kevin Love in a heartbeat.

By that logic, we give Crowder the amount of shots Love had Minnesota and he'll also be a 25 point scorer, but can defend to boot. Oh, and he shoots 35%+ from 3s as well.

I don't think you appreciate how well Crowder is playing. I mean, there's a big question of whether this is sustainable, but to give you a bit of insight, he's scoring 17 points a game on 47.6% shooting over this last month. Previous month was 16 points on 46.4%. That's [dang] good.

But if you're good with a player who's barely shooting over 40%, 41.5% to be exact, and can't defend while making $22+ million per year just because he can also rebound, be my guest. I mean, he's playing with some of the best decoys in the league, and that's all he can manage? At least when Ray Allen and Paul Pierce played together with Garnett they managed to put together some of the most efficient seasons of their careers. Love is doing just the opposite. If that's what he has in store when you put together a good team, which would require for him to be the Robin to a Batman, then forget it.

All I'm saying that at this current juncture is hard to argue that Love is a more productive player to have than Crowder. I don't care about arguing about who's the better player, yadda yadda, because that's hardly the point, and a point I'm not making either.

As for Love's numbers, not sure what averaging 16 and 10 over most season means, but he's only had one month over 40% shooting, and the last two months he's been scoring 13 points a game on 38% shooting.

Anyways the argument is hardly about who the better player is, but Love's numbers haven't been "great" as you're trying to allude to. They've been hardly that. His rebounding is the only thing really sustaining him.

Not only do you want to give up one of the best bargains in the league right now, but two of them for this "awesome" player in Love? Sorry, but pass... an easy pass.

You can't compare Jae Crowder's offense under any similar logic by giving him more shots.
Despite Kevin Love's struggles, he still ranks 11th in RPM and 19th in BPM. He was awesome at the beginning of the season, but recently his play has dropped off especially with the reintegrating of the previously injured players like Kyrie and Shumpert.

And I think people underestimate just how impactful Kevin is even when he's struggling with his shot. Since the beginning of last year, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin ON the floor, the team as a whole posts a 116 ORTG and a 103 DRTG. LeBron in particular scores on a 58.6% TS percentage.

On the other hand, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin OFF the floor, the team posts a 110 ORTG and a 104 DRTG. LeBron scores on a mere 51.2% TS percentage. That's a significant disparity. It's clear that the respect Kevin gets from the outside as a shooter warps the defense so that LeBron can get much more open driving lanes, which is incredibly important at this stage of his career where he can't just blow by anyone at will anymore.

And finally there's the fact that Love has still been pretty [dang] good as far as production. Of course he's not going to be able to put up 26/14 again considering the talent on this roster. However, he's still averaging 18 ppg (55% TS), 12 rpg, and 3 apg per 36 minutes. Also he has a 20+ PER.
Jae Crowder isn't the focal point of the offense, he never has been and never will be.
Saying that I don't understand the value of Crowder's contract is ridiculous because I was one of his strongest advocates when I declared he was the next DeMare Carroll on a better contract than Carroll.
But guess what? Just because he's the next DeMare Carroll doesn't mean he's better than Kevin Love.
Kevin Love is a stretch power forward. His FG% is never going to be as good as other low post dominant PF's. He still bangs inside (when given the opportunity on offense) as seen in Minny when he got to the line 8 times a game. He currently gets to the line half as much. Did he suddenly change his game? Did he just hit a career wall? Or is he treading sand in a horrible basketball system that sticks him in the corner as a Ryan Anderson 2.0, watching Lebron, Kyre and JR Smith take all the shots?
You're saying people who would do this trade don't recognize Jae Crowder's value. Well that's not true, but I really think you're undervaluing (as much of the general NBA fan population is right now) how good Kevin Love is on the offensive end. You're stalking about his efficiency like he's a chucker?

-In Minny he put up a 48% 2 point FG average over six and a half seasons and has averaged 38.5% shooting threes since his third NBA season with an average of 5.5 attempts per game.
-His career TS% is 56.4%
-In his last full year in Minny he averaged almost 60% TS whilst taking 6.6 three point attempts per game.
That is the dictionary meaning of an offensive power house.

Jae Crowder couldn't dream of numbers like that. To be fair to Jae, Love couldn't dream of having the same defensive impact as Crowder, but Love is still a net positive defender and always has been, and with guys like Smart, Bradley and Amir Johnson (or whichever defensive studs Danny finds), he will be completely fine and free to concentrate on putting the ball in the basket.

When Love was on the floor with Rubio, Martin and Pekovic in Minny in 2013 they had the #1 offensive point differential in the NBA. like 7 points better than the Heat, better than the Spurs- and Love was the boss of that offense.

This crap that somehow Love is a locker room queen or doesn't take responsibility is completely far fetched and ridiculous.
People are acting like he's Tyson Chandler and he's got nothing left.
His numbers have always been awesome. Up until last year and this year when they went from awesome to very good as his role went from 'the man' to 'the third wheel'.

Nothing has changed except he's taken a smaller role in the offense and has had his shooting freedom completely shut down.

Don't have time to address all this at the moment, but there's some inaccurate information out there.

But first I suggest you do that same study but in the inverse. How is Love and his units without LeBron on the floor? That's very important because Love will be LeBron-less wearing Celtics Green. The results won't be pretty.

I mean, also if integrating Iman Shumpert and his low usage rate (10th in the team) affects Love that much, I'm not sure what to think of it.

As for BPM, not sure where you're looking ranks for that, not a stat I usually frequent, but by the looks of it his BPM is 2.9, Crowder's is 3.3, Thomas' is 3.6.

Per 36, he's NOT shooting 18 points per game. He's shooting 17.2 PPG. Crowder is at 16.1 with 58 TS% (to Love's 54 TS% NOT 55%). Thomas is at 24.2 PPG, 56 TS%.

Anyways, as I said, this is not about arguing who's the better player. I don't care to make that argument and I'm not even making it. This is about building a team, including contract situation, philosophy of the types of players one envisions to be better prepared to help a team win, etc. And his numbers are definitely not "great". Good/passable at best, with his continued very good rebounding.

And he definitely doesn't have a 20+ PER. He has a 18.82 PER mostly due to his rebounding prowess.

I just don't care to pay $22 million for whatever Love brings to the table on top of trading valuable assets away for it. I rather stay pat and look for other opportunities.

I don't care for what Love did in the past. I'm worried about the present and the future.

[Csfan1984]

Not trading KO in a deal for,Love .

KO dun broke the punks arm .....

KO is going to be all around better player in the end.

Would be huge Cavs slamming door of Love on the way out if they said KO was a big reason they felt they could deal Love. Lol