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Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« on: January 11, 2016, 03:00:42 PM »

Offline FrDrake

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Thought of this after reading the piece on the main page suggesting the Cs target Ryan Anderson.  This trade expands the deal to clean up the Cs rotation and add some new young talent to New Orleans

Pelicans trade:
Tyreke Evans
Ryan Anderson
Kendrick Perkins...perk!!

Cs trade:
Sullinger or Zeller (Pelicans choose)
James Young
David Lee (salary filler)
Jerekbo (ditto)
2016 Dallas first round pick
<insert random 2nd round pick if needed>

ESPN trade checker works:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zfus5mf

Pelicans do this trade to dump Tyreke's salary (2 years at 10million per) and because Anderson can walk as FA this offseason for nothing.  They pick up two former first round picks with potential (sullinger and young), hold Sullinger's rights if they want to match or sign and trade, and get at least one more first round pick.

For the Cs, Anderson likely moves into the starting line up with Amir while Olynyk and Mickey come off the bench.  Obviously, Anderson improves their shooting and spacing.

Tyreke would become the second unit's primary offensive threat and the guard rotation is built around Smart, IT, Tyreke and Bradley.   Evan Turner and Crowder complete the rotation.

It's unlikely the Cs will resign Sullinger given the development of Olynyk and (far cheaper) potential of Mickey.   Dealing Young opens up minutes down the road for Hunter and Rozier. And the draft pick can definitely be spared - if anything DA has to trade a pick at the deadline because they likely have more picks than available roster spots this year.






Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 03:43:41 PM »

Offline konkmv

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I would not give up any first rounder for those 2... good playera but nothing special... we have olynyc and smart to develop... we need a scorer and a rim protector...we have ahooters.. thomas bradley olynyc hunter crowder... we do not have someone who penetratws, gets to the foul line scores at will.. he will free the shooters

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 04:01:39 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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I would not give up any first rounder for those 2... good playera but nothing special... we have olynyc and smart to develop... we need a scorer and a rim protector...we have ahooters.. thomas bradley olynyc hunter crowder... we do not have someone who penetratws, gets to the foul line scores at will.. he will free the shooters

Giving up the Dallas first round pick isn't a big deal being it's going to be in the mid 20's as of now.

Evans and Anderson are nice players, Evans is good if he can stay on the floor. Anderson can be light out shooter. Plus they are in their mid 20's. Anderson doesn't hurt KO's development. They could actually play at the same time in spurts which would open the middle up for a guy like Evans to get to the rim, and Evans gives us a guy who can create his own shot, which we don't have much of.

Evans makes it so It can go back to the bench, play Evans and AB, Evans being the big PG, but gives us size in the starting backcourt. Then have Smart and IT come off the bench for D and scoring.

Plus moving Lee and Sully frees minutes for Mickey from time to time. This isn't a blockbuster trade, and a bit lopsided(but most trades tend to be) but it's a lot of value for what the C's would have to give up. I mean Evans and Anderson for Sully,Lee(who barley plays) and Jerekbo and a late first.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 04:08:06 PM »

Offline howl1309

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I like the idea of getting Evans.  He would add a lot to this team. He is a better version of Turner.. Not sure he solves the lack of three point shooting but I would still take him. he has more talent some of the guys on our team.  We need more talent.

I'm not sold on getting a guy like Anderson at this point.  I don't want to trade assets for a guy we can just sign in the off-season if we want him.  Keep the ammo for a bigger fish.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 04:11:45 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Having Both Turner and Evans would be redundant IMO.  Also I'm not big on the idea of trading for the expiring contract in Anderson. 

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 04:18:52 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I would not give up any first rounder for those 2... good playera but nothing special... we have olynyc and smart to develop... we need a scorer and a rim protector...we have ahooters.. thomas bradley olynyc hunter crowder... we do not have someone who penetratws, gets to the foul line scores at will.. he will free the shooters

Giving up the Dallas first round pick isn't a big deal being it's going to be in the mid 20's as of now.

Evans and Anderson are nice players, Evans is good if he can stay on the floor. Anderson can be light out shooter. Plus they are in their mid 20's. Anderson doesn't hurt KO's development. They could actually play at the same time in spurts which would open the middle up for a guy like Evans to get to the rim, and Evans gives us a guy who can create his own shot, which we don't have much of.

Evans makes it so It can go back to the bench, play Evans and AB, Evans being the big PG, but gives us size in the starting backcourt. Then have Smart and IT come off the bench for D and scoring.

Plus moving Lee and Sully frees minutes for Mickey from time to time. This isn't a blockbuster trade, and a bit lopsided(but most trades tend to be) but it's a lot of value for what the C's would have to give up. I mean Evans and Anderson for Sully,Lee(who barley plays) and Jerekbo and a late first.

Three tradeable assets for 1 tradeable asset (lesser), that's how things actually turn out to say nothing of a decrease in buying power next Summer and less flexibility while doing so.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 04:27:50 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 04:45:02 PM »

Offline FrDrake

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You guys missed the part where we get back Perk....Perk comes home to the city he never should have left!


Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 05:40:17 PM »

Offline chambers

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Props for a more realistic deal-at least value wise.
Personally these guys don't interest me. I'd prefer to re sign Evan Turner and give Kelly big minutes at PF before giving up assets for these guys-they just don't move the needle enough for me especially when you consider how many young players+rookies we'll have next season.
Just seems very lateral from a basketball standpoint. (To me).
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 05:56:10 PM »

Offline colincb

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Don't know why NO trades Evans. He's not overpaid for his production.

A simple trade of Sully and Jerebko and maybe some seconds should do it. Pels need some rebounding and inside offense. We need an outside shooter and consistent scorer. Not sure I'd do it, because of Anderson being a UFA this summer where there's too much cap money chasing too little talent and I don't want to max him out.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2016, 08:26:11 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I think this is a no brainer and would do it without a second of hesitation, but I don't think the Pelicans would.



I would not give up any first rounder for those 2... good playera but nothing special... we have olynyc and smart to develop... we need a scorer and a rim protector...we have ahooters.. thomas bradley olynyc hunter crowder... we do not have someone who penetratws, gets to the foul line scores at will.. he will free the shooters

The problems I see with this argument are:

1)  You just said that Tyreke is a good player, but nothing special - that's true.  But there is not a single player we are sending back in that deal that I would classify as a good player.  Sully / Zeller would be the best player in that deal, and I wouldn't consider either of those two guys a "good" player.  They are decent players that you hope and pray could one day become good players.

2) The Mavs pick is top 7 protected and currently looks highly unlikely to fall any better than top 12.  If that pick falls outside the top 10, then what is the probability of getting a "good" player out of that pick? Pretty low, to be honest.  If you look at the guys taken between 12 and 20 in the average draft, you'll probably find that you will be lucky if two of those guys end up developing into good players.   That leaves you with maybe a 25% chance of getting a good player (if that) when drafting in the 12-20 range, which is where that Dallas pick is likely to fall at the current rate.

3) James Young and David Lee have no immediate value to this team.  Lee is out of the rotation, and Young looks like he is still a year or two away from being even a rotation caliber player.

3) Jerebko is a solid guy who I don't mind having on the team, but he's very much replaceable.

At the end of the day Tyreke is a career 17/5/5 guy who can play and defend three positions, who has stayed relatively healthy over his career (he's played in 83% of possible games over his career).   He would immediately become the second best player on the team after Thomas, and his flexibility allows him to play either the PG, SG or SF position in today's league. 

Stevens has already stated that he likes to play Crowder at the PF spot in small ball lineups, but can't really do it because we have so many bigs who all need minutes.  By doing this trade we get rid of three bigs (Sully/Zeller, Lee and Jerebko) so we could start Tyreke at SF and move Crowder to PF.

Ryan Anderson is less appealing to me since he basically is just a shorter version of Kelly Olynyk, but at the end of the day he DOES offer a valuable skill (three point shooting - 38% for his career) and having a big who can shoot at that level is always useful.  I wouldn't care at all for keeping him after this season, so for me the fact that he's expiring would actually be a benefit. 

Ultimately though I want Sully and Lee gone regardless, since I feel both players actually hurt the team when they are on the court...so I consider those to guys to be 'addition by subtraction'.

Young IMHO is never going to be anything more than a passable rotation player, so I consider him a nothing asset...don't care if we keep him or lose him.   

That means that in my mind, the only assets of meaningful value to us that we are giving up here are Jerebko (who I like as a role player) and the Mavs pick...while the only asset we are gaining of signifcant value to us is Tyreke.

IMHO Tyreke is more valuable than Jerebko and the Mavs pick, so I say yes.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 08:47:53 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I would not give up any first rounder for those 2... good playera but nothing special... we have olynyc and smart to develop... we need a scorer and a rim protector...we have ahooters.. thomas bradley olynyc hunter crowder... we do not have someone who penetratws, gets to the foul line scores at will.. he will free the shooters

Honestly, I think people dramatically overstate the value of first round picks.

Ultimately, any first round pick outside of the top 12 is going to have minimal trade value, since there is a very low probability of a pick that late in the draft ever returning a starting caliber (or even 6th man caliber) player.  The realistic best case scenario you can expect (outside of hitting absolute freak luck) from pick in the 12-25 range is a 2nd or 3rd man off the bench.  Hence a draft pick in that range should be worth about the same as a 7th or 8th man in your rotation - not all that much.

Tyreke has been a good starter his entire career, and a good one at that.  To give yourself a good chance of getting a player who is Tyreke-good via the draft, you'll really want to have a top 8 (perhaps even top 6) pick.

Hence I would say that realistically, Tyreke on his own is probably worth a first round pick in the 5-9 range.

Ryan Anderson is ultimately a glorified role player - he's not much of a defender, rebounder or even passer and he also isn't much of a finisher around the basket.  Ultimately, the only real strength he has to his game is his long range jumper (from 16 feet and out) where he's been consistently excellent his entire career.

Finding a one-skill wonder and borderline-starter like Anderson in the draft is much easier than finding a guy like Tyreke, so I'd say that on his own Anderson is probably only worth a 1st round pick in the 12-20 range.

A draft pick outside of the top 20 is really of very little value.  It's basically the equivalent of having a player like Jonas Jerebko or Jason Collins.  If you can a rotation quality player from a pick outside the top 20, you're doing very well.  In fact, a player in that range is really not worth much (if any) more than a high 2nd round pick.

Given our Mavs pick looks likely to land outside of the top 20, it's safe to say the return for that pick is probably going to be late rotation player at best.  Giving up that plus Jerebko, Lee. Young and Sully is a pretty fair offer for Tyreke and Ryan Anderson.  In fact Tyreke might well be worth that offer on his own.

We like to overstate the value of our assets here on Celtics Blog, but what we need to remember is that the most valuable asset we're giving up in this deal is Sully, who:

* Has career averages of 11.1 / 7.6 / 1.7 / 0.6 / 0.7
* Has career averages of 43.7% FG, 27.5% 3PT and 73.8% FT
* Has well established attitude issues
* Is only good valuable now because he is on a rookie contact, which expires after this season

None of the other assets we give up in this deal have any real value, and Tyreke is by far the best player in this deal.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 09:04:43 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Anyone else agree that the Celtics are probably going to make a deal with one of the soon-to-be-tanking teams soon? The teams I'm thinking of are Phoenix, Denver, and New Orleans. All are having bad seasons and all have some intriguing assets. I would include Minnesota but I don't think they have anything the Celtics would want/need. A case could be made for Kevin Martin but he doesn't play defense.

The Celtics have the expendable players and assets to make a Danny Ainge-like deal (Player(s) is cheap and/or contract isn't too long).

Deals like this are what I'm talking about.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2016, 09:36:44 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Tyreke has talent, but his biggest issue is basketball IQ. The guy simply doesn't have it and struggles to play off the ball.

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2016, 09:37:33 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Anyone else agree that the Celtics are probably going to make a deal with one of the soon-to-be-tanking teams soon? The teams I'm thinking of are Phoenix, Denver, and New Orleans. All are having bad seasons and all have some intriguing assets. I would include Minnesota but I don't think they have anything the Celtics would want/need. A case could be made for Kevin Martin but he doesn't play defense.

The Celtics have the expendable players and assets to make a Danny Ainge-like deal (Player(s) is cheap and/or contract isn't too long).

Deals like this are what I'm talking about.

Wouldn't surprise me, and there are a few players on those teams that could prove useful to us.

Tyreke Evans and Danilo Gallinari would be immediately upgrades at the SF spot - either of those guys (when combined with Thomas+Bradley) would make us a much more potent team offensively, both are still fairly young, and both offer the flexibility of being able to play three positions comfortably.   

Either JJ Hickson, Omer Asik or Tyson Chandler could prove useful as defensive role players at the center spot - most likely as backup centers off the bench.

Eric Gordon could be a consideration as a replacement for Bradley.  They are roughly on par as scorers lately, but Gordon adds the flexibility of being able to handle and pass the ball pretty well, at the sacrifice of Bradley's defence. Really more of a sidestep rather than an upgrade, but if we could somehow add Gordon without losing Bradley or Thomas that could be very advantageous.  We could then start either Gordon/Bradley or Thomas/Bradley and bring Gordon/Smart or Thomas/Smart off the bench. 

Since moving Thomas into the starting lineup, we've really missed the scoring punch he was bringing off the bench, so if we could have any of Gordon/Thomas/Bradley coming off the bench the extra scoring punch would make a huge impact.

Eric Bledsoe, Brandon Knight and Devin Booker would all be nice additions, but even if Pheonix did rebuild, they would probably want to keep all three as part of the rebuild. 

Re: Trade Idea: Tyreke and Anderson come to the Cs...
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2016, 09:56:36 PM »

Offline moiso

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I'd love to get Booker but I don't think he is nearly as available as Bledsoe.