Author Topic: david lee-2nd half miami  (Read 2592 times)

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david lee-2nd half miami
« on: December 27, 2015, 12:55:01 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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just killing some time and went back and watched replay of 2nd half of last miami game-david lee was a nightmare his defence abysmal,fouls ,couldn't hold onto ball,getting blocked--what a liability-
i had forgotten-
can't shoot from outside ,can't jump-i like his right and left hand when he's on but it's time to do something danny

Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 04:28:05 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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David Lee is awful. Maybe the lesson of that story is Brad Stevens isn't perfect. Zeller needs a role and Jordan Mickey looks ready for ten minutes per game. Sullinger is ridiculous for not getting into good enough shape so that he can play 40 minutes if needed. Amir is gritty. Against smaller teams, Jerebko can play some power forward. I would suggest that Olynyk has finally arrived. No one is going to be great every game. David Lee is one of the players who simply doesn't fit in. Same as Evan Turner who is too much of a ball hog.

I've a lot of opinions. I watch every game. I've been following them since as a kid. It was probably 1976. Maybe Zeller can practice threes. I think he could be as good as Amir who seems to need a five second cushion to methodically shoot them.

Bass was starting to hit those. We should of kept Phil Pressey, then somehow unload Turner for a serviceable point guard. I know Turner is solid in an average crap shoot way and does try his best, but he is Jordan Crawford, part two. He is like playing Sam Cassell and telling him do his thing. Hopefully Smart is back soon and can play pg and Turner can be a 15-20 minute option off the bench. I could do with a lot less Evan Turnover.

I nonetheless do root for Turner and Sully. They are definitely helping us win some games. Long-term I have no faith in either player.

I'm killing time for before the Knicks game.

My fear is David Lee might do well against the scrub teams on the immediate schedule leading to more Brad Stevens in denial that it's time to put the fork in Lee. He's finished.

Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 04:55:50 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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David Lee is awful. Maybe the lesson of that story is Brad Stevens isn't perfect. Zeller needs a role and Jordan Mickey looks ready for ten minutes per game. Sullinger is ridiculous for not getting into good enough shape so that he can play 40 minutes if needed. Amir is gritty. Against smaller teams, Jerebko can play some power forward. I would suggest that Olynyk has finally arrived. No one is going to be great every game. David Lee is one of the players who simply doesn't fit in. Same as Evan Turner who is too much of a ball hog.

I've a lot of opinions. I watch every game. I've been following them since as a kid. It was probably 1976. Maybe Zeller can practice threes. I think he could be as good as Amir who seems to need a five second cushion to methodically shoot them.

Bass was starting to hit those. We should of kept Phil Pressey, then somehow unload Turner for a serviceable point guard. I know Turner is solid in an average crap shoot way and does try his best, but he is Jordan Crawford, part two. He is like playing Sam Cassell and telling him do his thing. Hopefully Smart is back soon and can play pg and Turner can be a 15-20 minute option off the bench. I could do with a lot less Evan Turnover.

I nonetheless do root for Turner and Sully. They are definitely helping us win some games. Long-term I have no faith in either player.

I'm killing time for before the Knicks game.

My fear is David Lee might do well against the scrub teams on the immediate schedule leading to more Brad Stevens in denial that it's time to put the fork in Lee. He's finished.
let's define awful here, shall we?

per 36 lee is at about 17 points and 10 rebounds and 4.4 assists. not exactly chopped liver is it? he has been almost exactly as advertised. good offense, solid rebounding, p--- poor defense.

he is what he is. but "awful" is not the word i would use. in the correct role and moment in a game he has produced. but he is not the answer on a long-term, day in and day out basis.

on that we may agree.

where we will disagree is over phil pressey. i liked having phil the past few years and it was fun to cheer on the long shot guy. but keep him on the roster? he is currently with the sixers. you know, the team that is so putrid it may set an all time nba record for being putrid?

how is phil doing on that putrid team? not well. surrounded by nothing more than dleague talent, he still cant shine or earn consistent minutes.

this year he has played in only 14 games, averaged 12 minutes. during this time he averages about 4 points and 3.3 assists.

i wish him the best, but he would not help this celtics team win games in any measureable way.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 05:06:15 PM by hwangjini_1 »
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Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 04:57:15 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Didn't love the Lee trade when it happened and just assumed he would be riding the bench until a team had a major injury and needed a PF with championship experience. He was given more of a chance than I thought he deserved and there is no reason why Kelly and Zeller can't cover his minutes.

As for Turner (CP2016), I am actually a big fan of his and hope to retain him at a value price. You can plug him in anywhere, he can score, rebound, pass, and play defense on 1-3, and he seems like a great fit in Brad's system. I am afraid (for him) that it won't work out if he goes somewhere else. I think we just need to appreciate what he brings to the table and hope he signs for around $5M/yr this offseason.

Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 05:14:57 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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I think Lee's problem is---he's older now, and he's had his shot BLOCKED a bunch of times---so he RUSHES his shots around the rim now....pretty annoying---he's much better when he takes his time.
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Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2015, 06:19:48 PM »

Offline mbsnmisc

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David Lee is awful. Maybe the lesson of that story is Brad Stevens isn't perfect. Zeller needs a role and Jordan Mickey looks ready for ten minutes per game. Sullinger is ridiculous for not getting into good enough shape so that he can play 40 minutes if needed. Amir is gritty. Against smaller teams, Jerebko can play some power forward. I would suggest that Olynyk has finally arrived. No one is going to be great every game. David Lee is one of the players who simply doesn't fit in. Same as Evan Turner who is too much of a ball hog.

I've a lot of opinions. I watch every game. I've been following them since as a kid. It was probably 1976. Maybe Zeller can practice threes. I think he could be as good as Amir who seems to need a five second cushion to methodically shoot them.

Bass was starting to hit those. We should of kept Phil Pressey, then somehow unload Turner for a serviceable point guard. I know Turner is solid in an average crap shoot way and does try his best, but he is Jordan Crawford, part two. He is like playing Sam Cassell and telling him do his thing. Hopefully Smart is back soon and can play pg and Turner can be a 15-20 minute option off the bench. I could do with a lot less Evan Turnover.

I nonetheless do root for Turner and Sully. They are definitely helping us win some games. Long-term I have no faith in either player.

I'm killing time for before the Knicks game.

My fear is David Lee might do well against the scrub teams on the immediate schedule leading to more Brad Stevens in denial that it's time to put the fork in Lee. He's finished.
let's define awful here, shall we?

per 36 lee is at about 17 points and 10 rebounds and 4.4 assists. not exactly chopped liver is it? he has been almost exactly as advertised. good offense, solid rebounding, p--- poor defense.

he is what he is. but "awful" is not the word i would use. in the correct role and moment in a game he has produced. but he is not the answer on a long-term, day in and day out basis.

on that we may agree.

where we will disagree is over phil pressey. i liked having phil the past few years and it was fun to cheer on the long shot guy. but keep him on the roster? he is currently with the sixers. you know, the team that is so putrid it may set an all time nba record for being putrid?

how is phil doing on that putrid team? not well. surrounded by nothing more than dleague talent, he still cant shine or earn consistent minutes.

this year he has played in only 14 games, averaged 12 minutes. during this time he averages about 4 points and 3.3 assists.

i wish him the best, but he would not help this celtics team win games in any measureable way.


My idea of hell is watching David Lee play 36 minutes a game. Counting stats are almost always a poor way to judge a players value. Although not perfect, +/- is more telling. He is the only player that gets significant minutes that has a negative rating. David Lee was OK at one time. That time does not include this season.

Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2015, 05:06:01 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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let's define awful here, shall we?

per 36 lee is at about 17 points and 10 rebounds and 4.4 assists. not exactly chopped liver is it? he has been almost exactly as advertised. good offense, solid rebounding, p--- poor defense.

This is where I fundamentally disagree with your analysis. Admittedly David Lee is not awful in a Fab Melo way. However, I imagine most players in the NBA could put up stats if allowed to hog the ball.

You have forced me to check his stats. He is only shooting 48%. He doesn't shoot threes and he rarely shoots jumpers, so Lee is basically hitting 48% on close to the basket shots.

That's not good at all.

Your best point is with his rebounding.

Praising his assists total doesn't seem to add up. He is averaging 4.4 assists and 3.1 turnovers.

We both agree he's never been known for defense.


My idea of hell is watching David Lee play 36 minutes a game. Counting stats are almost always a poor way to judge a players value. Although not perfect, +/- is more telling. He is the only player that gets significant minutes that has a negative rating. David Lee was OK at one time. That time does not include this season.

Yes, I agree with this. I forget the link, but there were stats somewhere showing that David Lee in every combination used drags down the team's overall plus-minus.

Back to hwangjini_1:

Quote
where we will disagree is over phil pressey. i liked having phil the past few years and it was fun to cheer on the long shot guy. but keep him on the roster? he is currently with the sixers. you know, the team that is so putrid it may set an all time nba record for being putrid?

how is phil doing on that putrid team? not well. surrounded by nothing more than dleague talent, he still cant shine or earn consistent minutes.

this year he has played in only 14 games, averaged 12 minutes. during this time he averages about 4 points and 3.3 assists.

i wish him the best, but he would not help this celtics team win games in any measureable way.

No one is going to come out looking good playing for the 76er's.

Phil Pressey was the perfect #15 guy on the roster and third pg. He is arguably a much better defender than Isaiah Thomas. Why not lock up the #15 role? If we had Pressey, we wouldn't need Evan Turner.

We definitely need another pg or two. Maybe it will be Smart or Rozier. If we can shore up pg and center, then a guy like Jae Crowder can be penciled in every game for 35 minutes. If a guy like Jae has turned the corner and is now a reliable jump shooter, then there is no need for Evan Turner.

I am a Celtics fan to my inner core, but imho, Turner is only on the team because we have no other choice. When I try to think of the last player we had like him, I tend to remember Jordan Crawford who I imagine no one misses.

I could see keeping Turner, but yes, it would have to be for low money and he has to accept a Pressey may or may not play role.

Players like to have roles. No one wants to be on the bench. We kind of need guys like Pressey because having 15 ready to go NBA caliber players on one team can lead to disgruntled players.

I liked how Phil was able to come in cold and almost always be consistent. I think he was improving at jump shooting and his defense was very good for a small player. He was also exceptional at pushing the pace.

He's gone and it's a stale topic. It just feels to me that Evan Turner and David Lee are holding us back.

Lee has had a couple good games. He is good for one year at the far end of the bench for mentoring and cheer leading or to match contracts in a trade.

In real life, age 32 is a young man. Unfortunately that doesn't translate in basketball.

Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2015, 05:09:31 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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David Lee is awful. Maybe the lesson of that story is Brad Stevens isn't perfect. Zeller needs a role and Jordan Mickey looks ready for ten minutes per game. Sullinger is ridiculous for not getting into good enough shape so that he can play 40 minutes if needed. Amir is gritty. Against smaller teams, Jerebko can play some power forward. I would suggest that Olynyk has finally arrived. No one is going to be great every game. David Lee is one of the players who simply doesn't fit in. Same as Evan Turner who is too much of a ball hog.

I've a lot of opinions. I watch every game. I've been following them since as a kid. It was probably 1976. Maybe Zeller can practice threes. I think he could be as good as Amir who seems to need a five second cushion to methodically shoot them.

Bass was starting to hit those. We should of kept Phil Pressey, then somehow unload Turner for a serviceable point guard. I know Turner is solid in an average crap shoot way and does try his best, but he is Jordan Crawford, part two. He is like playing Sam Cassell and telling him do his thing. Hopefully Smart is back soon and can play pg and Turner can be a 15-20 minute option off the bench. I could do with a lot less Evan Turnover.

I nonetheless do root for Turner and Sully. They are definitely helping us win some games. Long-term I have no faith in either player.

I'm killing time for before the Knicks game.

My fear is David Lee might do well against the scrub teams on the immediate schedule leading to more Brad Stevens in denial that it's time to put the fork in Lee. He's finished.
let's define awful here, shall we?

per 36 lee is at about 17 points and 10 rebounds and 4.4 assists. not exactly chopped liver is it? he has been almost exactly as advertised. good offense, solid rebounding, p--- poor defense.

he is what he is. but "awful" is not the word i would use. in the correct role and moment in a game he has produced. but he is not the answer on a long-term, day in and day out basis.

on that we may agree.

where we will disagree is over phil pressey. i liked having phil the past few years and it was fun to cheer on the long shot guy. but keep him on the roster? he is currently with the sixers. you know, the team that is so putrid it may set an all time nba record for being putrid?

how is phil doing on that putrid team? not well. surrounded by nothing more than dleague talent, he still cant shine or earn consistent minutes.

this year he has played in only 14 games, averaged 12 minutes. during this time he averages about 4 points and 3.3 assists.

i wish him the best, but he would not help this celtics team win games in any measureable way.
I think David Lee is awful in that everyone on the team plays worse with him on the court. Sure he puts up decent individual numbers but the overall team always suffers.
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Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 05:36:55 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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let's define awful here, shall we?


I'll take a stab at this.  Your'e either Lebron James or you suck.

Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 12:05:34 AM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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let's define awful here, shall we?


I'll take a stab at this.  Your'e either Lebron James or you suck.

I am just a messenger. I only shot hoops in the backyard, but Rollie played real basketball and he has been disappointed with Lee all year.

Sportswriter Jay King seems to be credible and he also says Lee is no good.

Boston Celtics' David Lee frustrated with playing time, but might not deserve more minutes

Re: david lee-2nd half miami
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2015, 12:16:56 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I don't see ET and Lee as holding the team back. What's holding the team back, in my view (and in no particular order):

1) The lack of a dominant rebounding/defensive big man.

2) The lack of a go-to scorer who has the size and speed to exert his will (I like IT, but he's not enough).

3) The lack of bonafide (as opposed to sometimes good) three-point shooters.
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