is Rose done ?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Rose has been done ever since he blew his ACL against Philly in the first round of the 2012 playoffs. He's never been the same player after that.

This.

Never been the same player and being done are two different arguments.

Ok.

He has never been the same player since his 2012 injury which caused him to be done as a legit NBA threat and impactful player.

Does that slight word change fit the criteria now? I mean we all get the point with this one.

Some, but the main problem hasn't been that he injured himself in 2012, but that he continues to be injured.

So that he's struggling now doesn't project into the future because he has the physical tools, even after the ACL injury, to be very good again. But if he continues to get injured, which at this moment chances, or luck as one may call it, is siding with him being injured for one reason or another preventing him recapturing some of what's made him good on the floor.

So no, he's not done because his body hasn't broken down or aged to the point of no return. He has years left of elite athletic ability. The only hindrance he currently has to those plans is continuity purely because he just keeps getting injured, some of them freakishly.

More importantly, most of this year's problem has stemmed from him basically playing blindly on the floor (exaggeration of course), so his current poor numbers shouldn't be conclusive or projective of what he has to offer.

[pearljammer10]

Rose has been done ever since he blew his ACL against Philly in the first round of the 2012 playoffs. He's never been the same player after that.

This.

Never been the same player and being done are two different arguments.

Ok.

He has never been the same player since his 2012 injury which caused him to be done as a legit NBA threat and impactful player.

Does that slight word change fit the criteria now? I mean we all get the point with this one.

Some, but the main problem hasn't been that he injured himself in 2012, but that he continues to be injured.

So that he's struggling now doesn't project into the future because he has the physical tools, even after the ACL injury, to be very good again. But if he continues to get injured, which at this moment chances, or luck as one may call it, is siding with him being injured for one reason or another preventing him recapturing some of what's made him good on the floor.

So no, he's not done because his body hasn't broken down or aged to the point of no return. He has years left of elite athletic ability. The only hindrance he currently has to those plans is continuity purely because he just keeps getting injured, some of them freakishly.

More importantly, most of this year's problem has stemmed from him basically playing blindly on the floor (exaggeration of course), so his current poor numbers shouldn't be conclusive or projective of what he has to offer.

TP because I'll agree you make good points here, but at the same time I am on the fence with completely agreeing and completely disagreeing.

He has had the injury bug which has restricted him from showing us the physical tools he is capable of. Him playing blindly doesn't have any effect thats been caused by his previous injuries....However, since he is getting injured all the time wouldn't that be a sign of his body breaking down? Even if he didn't have this ocular injury, he might still not be playing well because he physically might be effected negatively by the lingering acl, knee, and leg injuries that he has been dealing with over the last four seasons.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Rose has been done ever since he blew his ACL against Philly in the first round of the 2012 playoffs. He's never been the same player after that.

This.

Never been the same player and being done are two different arguments.

Ok.

He has never been the same player since his 2012 injury which caused him to be done as a legit NBA threat and impactful player.

Does that slight word change fit the criteria now? I mean we all get the point with this one.

Some, but the main problem hasn't been that he injured himself in 2012, but that he continues to be injured.

So that he's struggling now doesn't project into the future because he has the physical tools, even after the ACL injury, to be very good again. But if he continues to get injured, which at this moment chances, or luck as one may call it, is siding with him being injured for one reason or another preventing him recapturing some of what's made him good on the floor.

So no, he's not done because his body hasn't broken down or aged to the point of no return. He has years left of elite athletic ability. The only hindrance he currently has to those plans is continuity purely because he just keeps getting injured, some of them freakishly.

More importantly, most of this year's problem has stemmed from him basically playing blindly on the floor (exaggeration of course), so his current poor numbers shouldn't be conclusive or projective of what he has to offer.

TP because I'll agree you make good points here, but at the same time I am on the fence with completely agreeing and completely disagreeing.

He has had the injury bug which has restricted him from showing us the physical tools he is capable of. Him playing blindly doesn't have any effect thats been caused by his previous injuries....However, since he is getting injured all the time wouldn't that be a sign of his body breaking down? Even if he didn't have this ocular injury, he might still not be playing well because he physically might be effected negatively by the lingering acl, knee, and leg injuries that he has been dealing with over the last four seasons.

Some can lead back to his body breaking down, but a lot of them have been freakish like this most recent one was simply an elbow to the face, nothing to do with his conditioning.

All this to say that he's not done, but the injury bug does keep attacking him... which is a legit observation. Nothing I've seen so far is preventive of him recapturing what he brought to the floor previously, which is my point in all of this. He's 27 years old and still one of the most athletically gifted players, particularly for his position, warts and all... so still has a handful of years left before things start too look like completely done.

I mean, look at what Dirk is doing this year. Haven't we been proclaiming him to be done for years now?

So, I'm in between... not optimistic for him because of the injury bug, but aware that there's nothing particularly wrong with him right now physically and he has youth on his side still. It wouldn't surprise me if in 2 months he isn't back to knocking at the door of the best PGs in the league... not that I'm counting on that either.

Just about every player in the league goes through slumps, particularly with new coaches too. I guess all I can say for Rose is that he has an excuse, and I'm not ready to declare that he has run out of them yet.

[BballTim]

Rose has been done ever since he blew his ACL against Philly in the first round of the 2012 playoffs. He's never been the same player after that.

This.

Never been the same player and being done are two different arguments.

Ok.

He has never been the same player since his 2012 injury which caused him to be done as a legit NBA threat and impactful player.

Does that slight word change fit the criteria now? I mean we all get the point with this one.

Some, but the main problem hasn't been that he injured himself in 2012, but that he continues to be injured.

So that he's struggling now doesn't project into the future because he has the physical tools, even after the ACL injury, to be very good again. But if he continues to get injured, which at this moment chances, or luck as one may call it, is siding with him being injured for one reason or another preventing him recapturing some of what's made him good on the floor.

So no, he's not done because his body hasn't broken down or aged to the point of no return. He has years left of elite athletic ability. The only hindrance he currently has to those plans is continuity purely because he just keeps getting injured, some of them freakishly.

  To a certain extent, the style of play that made him a top player isn't really conducive to a player with knee problems. Did he ever have a ton of skill beyond great athleticism?

[littleteapot]

When has Rose ever had court vision of any kind?  The only 'vision' that he's ever had is of the tunnel variety, imo.  He was always grossly overrated, anyway, again, imo.  He's a sg in a pg's body with incredible athleticism who never passed the ball or made his teammates better, which is why Chicago was never a threat to Miami, because they knew that he would just continuously drive into 3-5 players, never pass, and turn the ball over or complain that he was fouled.  He's just never been a smart player, to me.  He could have been, and if he had taken a more cerebral approach to the game, then he could have been really scary and an all-time great, but he never changed his style of play.  Westbrook is the same way.  They're both far too selfish to be point guards, imo.  I mean, how many point guards shoot 7-25 in a game and just keep gunning ?  It's just not very intelligent, to say the least.  The only thing that Rose ever did that I liked was winning the MVP in 2011, deservedly so or not, because it denied Lebron the chance to join Russell, Chamberlain, and Bird as the only players to win 3 consecutive MVP's, lol, so I guess that I would have been happy with whoever won that award, as long as it wasn't Kobe or Wade .

I think this is the biggest myth about Rose. He had a 39% AST% in 2011 and a 40% AST% in 2012. He took a lot of shots because he is just that good at scoring and most of the teams he's been on had terrible shooting, not because he couldn't be a distributor.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Rose has been done ever since he blew his ACL against Philly in the first round of the 2012 playoffs. He's never been the same player after that.

This.

Never been the same player and being done are two different arguments.

Ok.

He has never been the same player since his 2012 injury which caused him to be done as a legit NBA threat and impactful player.

Does that slight word change fit the criteria now? I mean we all get the point with this one.

Some, but the main problem hasn't been that he injured himself in 2012, but that he continues to be injured.

So that he's struggling now doesn't project into the future because he has the physical tools, even after the ACL injury, to be very good again. But if he continues to get injured, which at this moment chances, or luck as one may call it, is siding with him being injured for one reason or another preventing him recapturing some of what's made him good on the floor.

So no, he's not done because his body hasn't broken down or aged to the point of no return. He has years left of elite athletic ability. The only hindrance he currently has to those plans is continuity purely because he just keeps getting injured, some of them freakishly.

  To a certain extent, the style of play that made him a top player isn't really conducive to a player with knee problems. Did he ever have a ton of skill beyond great athleticism?

That's his calling card and he hasn't lost that yet either. He's simply not making shots, finishing (confidence issues?, scared of contact?, not seeing well?). IF he loses that athletism, then he's cooked. We're calling it knee problems, but does he have knee problems or his style simply causing issues to his knees? Not that it matters much, only to say that his problem is not his incapability to play his usual brand of basketball. Problem then is that his usual brand of basketball, irrespective of whatever issues there may be with his knees or not, makes him susceptible to being injured again.

I mean his last two injuries to his knees where to the opposite leg of the one with the ACL problem.

Jury is out if he can keep playing that brand of basketball without injuring himself. But for the time being, physically, he's still good.