Author Topic: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years  (Read 2226 times)

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Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2015, 03:23:43 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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I don't think a draft ban will do anything other then further destroy an all ready putrid franchise.

The 76ers are the shining example of why the league needs to change its approach to the lottery and possibly Free agency.

The construction of the FA super teams are what actually brought the league down this path. The current basic formula for creating a contender is to A. obtain a star (through draft or trade) B. Use that star to attract other star FAs C. Fill roster with ring low salary vets. Their are many exceptions to this but this is the plan implemented by the Heat (Wade, Lebron, Bosh),Knicks (Amare/Melo), Nets (Lopez, Williams, Johnson), Rockets (Harden, Howard), Cavs (Irving, Lebron, Love)

The quest for the initial Star is what created the concept of tanking rather then leaving a team stuck in the lottery/playoff purgatory of finishing in the late lottery or early first round. This leaves teams with little chance of gaining a star in the draft. The 76ers ownership/GM viewed there roster of a few years ago as destine for this path so they sold the farm for picks and have since fielded an abysmal team made up of predominantly D-League talent.

The new CBS is going to have to figure out a way to counter some of this for the over all health of the league and game of basketball. For the little that its worth the following are some of my ideas.

1. Create financial incentive for Vets to stay long term with teams. Idea, After 8 consecutive seasons with one team a players salary cap hit incrementally diminishes. Example would be after 8 years with a team player X signs a deal for 10mill per for 4 years. This salary hits the cap at 90% (9mill) in year 9, 80% in year 10, etc. This tops out at a players salary only counting for 50% on the cap. This would hopefully act as an incentive to stay with one team as they can effectively over pay you in your twilight years with out hurting the team. The Lakers payed Kobe and it has hurt them. Where as the Spurs and Mavs where able to convince Duncan and Dirk to take discount deals to compete.

2. Create a better system of development of young players / scrap the 1 and done. Idea, scrap the one and done but create a rule that extends the rookie contract by 1 year of any player who is less then 1 year removed from high school. This would protect teams from having to resign young players who haven't proven yet they can make it in the league. It also give teenage players more time to develop. Along side this the D-league should be expanded to a true farm system where every franchise is directly represented. I would also like to see the NBA rosters expanded to allow more room for teams to have guys on assignment to the D-league without creating potential issues on their active rosters.

3. Penalize repeat early lottery teams. Idea,  I have stated this before. If a team lands the #1 pick in say 2015 they are not eligible for picks 1-5 in 2016, 1-3 in 2017, or #1 in 2018. If a team lands pick #2-3 in 2015 they are ineligible for the top 3 picks following season. If a team is in the bottom 5 of the league for 3 consecutive years they are also top 3 ineligible for 1 season.     

4. Alter the draft odds and create brackets. Idea, The worst 6 teams go into bracket 1 and are eligible for picks 1-6 all teams have the same odds, 7-12 bracket 2, 13-18 bracket 3, 19-24 bracket 4, 25-30 bracket 5. This should leave the only really tanking risk coming around the 6th and 7th seeds. The teams in bracket 3 will all likely be fighting for a playoff spot and not even thinking about the draft.
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Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2015, 03:54:09 PM »

Offline max215

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The current lottery system is working: Philly hasn't gotten the number one pick/franchise player yet. There is a limit to how long this can go on for.
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Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2015, 04:32:12 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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They traded the ROY for really nothing.

They traded a former ROY that is now a backup PG on sub-.500 Sixers squad, and in return got wildly valuable 1st round pick from Lakers team who is in the running for the worst team in basketball.  If that is nothing, I hope Ainge is doing everything he can to trade for some nothing.

Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2015, 04:32:44 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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The current lottery system is working: Philly hasn't gotten the number one pick/franchise player yet. There is a limit to how long this can go on for.

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Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2015, 04:36:01 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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They traded the ROY for really nothing.

They traded a former ROY that is now a backup PG on sub-.500 Sixers squad, and in return got wildly valuable 1st round pick from Lakers team who is in the running for the worst team in basketball.  If that is nothing, I hope Ainge is doing everything he can to trade for some nothing.

Yeah that's looking like a fantastic trade, so it's a poor example of what the Sixers have done "wrong."
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Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2015, 05:13:14 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I could live to be 1,000 years old and I doubt I'd ever understand why fans care so much if a team tanks or not. 

It's a good question.

If a team realizes they're going to be pretty bad a for a few years, does it really matter if they win 30 games or 15 games?  Either way they're a joke against the teams that really matter.
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Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2015, 08:27:28 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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I don't think a draft ban will do anything other then further destroy an all ready putrid franchise.

The 76ers are the shining example of why the league needs to change its approach to the lottery and possibly Free agency.

The construction of the FA super teams are what actually brought the league down this path. The current basic formula for creating a contender is to A. obtain a star (through draft or trade) B. Use that star to attract other star FAs C. Fill roster with ring low salary vets. Their are many exceptions to this but this is the plan implemented by the Heat (Wade, Lebron, Bosh),Knicks (Amare/Melo), Nets (Lopez, Williams, Johnson), Rockets (Harden, Howard), Cavs (Irving, Lebron, Love)

This isn't a recent phenonemon.  It's as old as organised basketball itself.  In no other team game do 2 or 3 star players make such a difference.  They are on the court for 90% of the game, and they play huge roles on offense and defense.  Stars in basketball mean much more than they do in soccer, football, baseball or hockey.

Just look at the history of the NBA.  Besides the 2004 Pistons, how many titles were won by teams without at least one no doubt top 50 player? And usually you need two.  It's why Houston traded for Drexler in 95.  It's why the Sixers trade for Moses in 83.  Superior talents win basketball games.  It's just the nature of the game.

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The quest for the initial Star is what created the concept of tanking rather then leaving a team stuck in the lottery/playoff purgatory of finishing in the late lottery or early first round. This leaves teams with little chance of gaining a star in the draft. The 76ers ownership/GM viewed there roster of a few years ago as destine for this path so they sold the farm for picks and have since fielded an abysmal team made up of predominantly D-League talent.

Again, this isn't new.  Tanking in some form or another has pretty much existed in the NBA ever since they ditched the regional draft system.  Teams were doing whatever they could to land big time centers like Kareem and Bill Walton in the 60s and 70s.  Again, in a sport where one player can change everything, almost overnight, you are going to have tanking.  It's the nature of the game.

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The new CBS is going to have to figure out a way to counter some of this for the over all health of the league and game of basketball. For the little that its worth the following are some of my ideas.

The game is as healthy as it's ever been.  There are more well ran franchises than ever before.  This idea that tanking is somehow ruining things was a myth. 

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1. Create financial incentive for Vets to stay long term with teams. Idea, After 8 consecutive seasons with one team a players salary cap hit incrementally diminishes. Example would be after 8 years with a team player X signs a deal for 10mill per for 4 years. This salary hits the cap at 90% (9mill) in year 9, 80% in year 10, etc. This tops out at a players salary only counting for 50% on the cap. This would hopefully act as an incentive to stay with one team as they can effectively over pay you in your twilight years with out hurting the team. The Lakers payed Kobe and it has hurt them. Where as the Spurs and Mavs where able to convince Duncan and Dirk to take discount deals to compete.

You mentioned Tim Duncan.  Remember how the Spurs got him?  They tanked.  They tanked all over themselves.  And now they've got their eyes on a SIXTH championship in Tim Duncan's amazing career.  Pro tip: in all future anti-tanking posts, refrain from mentioning Tim Duncan.

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2. Create a better system of development of young players / scrap the 1 and done. Idea, scrap the one and done but create a rule that extends the rookie contract by 1 year of any player who is less then 1 year removed from high school. This would protect teams from having to resign young players who haven't proven yet they can make it in the league. It also give teenage players more time to develop. Along side this the D-league should be expanded to a true farm system where every franchise is directly represented. I would also like to see the NBA rosters expanded to allow more room for teams to have guys on assignment to the D-league without creating potential issues on their active rosters.

Adjustable sizes on rookie deals depending on a players age is an interesting idea that i have considered before myself (great minds think alike :).  But this doesn't stop tanking.  Teams tanked for talent straight of high school in the 00s (Lebron), and they tanked for 4 year stand out college talent in the 80s (Hakeem).

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3. Penalize repeat early lottery teams. Idea,  I have stated this before. If a team lands the #1 pick in say 2015 they are not eligible for picks 1-5 in 2016, 1-3 in 2017, or #1 in 2018. If a team lands pick #2-3 in 2015 they are ineligible for the top 3 picks following season. If a team is in the bottom 5 of the league for 3 consecutive years they are also top 3 ineligible for 1 season.

I've seen this idea thrown around before, and it is insane.  What if you get the first round pick in a year where there is no superior talent?  There have been several drafts where most of the top 5 picks where duds.  Or, what if a team simply chooses the wrong guy?  So if a team makes a poor choice on draft night, they will be penalized in the draft for half a decade?  Well, that would get rid of tanking, because the league would have teams losing 70+ games a year because they have no way to field a remotely competitive team.   

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4. Alter the draft odds and create brackets. Idea, The worst 6 teams go into bracket 1 and are eligible for picks 1-6 all teams have the same odds, 7-12 bracket 2, 13-18 bracket 3, 19-24 bracket 4, 25-30 bracket 5. This should leave the only really tanking risk coming around the 6th and 7th seeds. The teams in bracket 3 will all likely be fighting for a playoff spot and not even thinking about the draft.

All this would cause is more tanking.  You'd have teams in the 7-12 spots doing what they could to drop into that bottom sixth, and then the 3-6 teams would be tanking so that they other teams couldn't catch them.


tl:dr  If you don't like tanking, don't watch NBA basketball. 

Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2015, 08:41:02 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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The Spurs were a different case. They only had to tank 1 year because they already have a good roster and a superstar coming back from injury. They also dont have to worry about a winning culture because the players were not all young players who never sniffed the playoffs. In fact, making the playoffs when Duncan was a rookie helped that team a lot more than tanking wouldve. I dont dismiss tanking as useless, but there is such a thing as tanking too much. I wanted the Celtics to tank for the 2014 draft, but I dont want to tank any much more and start to develop the pieces and the team culture. I dont want to be the trainwreck that is Philadelphia. Soon their draft picks are gonna be expensive, and if other teams offer their players a bigger contract they are gone as soon as possible because believe it or not players hate losing.

Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2015, 09:04:55 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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The Spurs were a different case. They only had to tank 1 year because they already have a good roster and a superstar coming back from injury. They also dont have to worry about a winning culture because the players were not all young players who never sniffed the playoffs. In fact, making the playoffs when Duncan was a rookie helped that team a lot more than tanking wouldve. I dont dismiss tanking as useless, but there is such a thing as tanking too much. I wanted the Celtics to tank for the 2014 draft, but I dont want to tank any much more and start to develop the pieces and the team culture. I dont want to be the trainwreck that is Philadelphia. Soon their draft picks are gonna be expensive, and if other teams offer their players a bigger contract they are gone as soon as possible because believe it or not players hate losing.

I think the Sixers were (and are) aware that for this to work they need to start showing signs of this thing turning around in the next year or two.  That's what all this balances on.  But with possibly coming back, Saric finally making it to the NBA, and them them possibly having two top five picks next year, the pieces are there. 

Also, with restricted players, the Sixers can match any offer those guys receive if they try to leave as 4th year restricted free agents. 

There's definitely a chance this will blow up in their face.  They have a lot of pieces that don't mesh all that well (thought that would change if Noel ever perfects a midrange jumper).  I think this whole rebuild could be decided by some sort of big trade involving one of their three young big men.

Re: ban sixers from the draft for 3 years
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2015, 09:17:32 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I am sure the league is considering this thread right now.  Heh    NOT!