A quarter of the season gone -- what's surprised you so far?

[footey]

Turner is still way better than people here gave him credit for.   

How much better do you think he is than people give him credit for?

He's a decent secondary ball-handler and occasional scorer to have on your bench.  His ability to create his own shot inside of 15 feet has helped the team when Isaiah isn't running the show, especially with Smart injured.  He's like a bigger Sean Livingston with better individual scoring ability.

All of this makes him a nice enough contributor to the team, but I'm not sure what additional credit he deserves.  Are we supposed to recognize him as one of the top players on the team?  Are we supposed to acknowledge that he's vindicated his draft status, or proven Philadelphia wrong for moving on from him?  What has he shown an ability to do this year that he hasn't done in the past?

I agree with larbird, Turner looks like a better player this year. He sticks with his strengths (posting up, shooting mid range jumpers, nice ball handling for his size) and minimizing his weaknesses (cutting down on 3 point shots).  I really am beginning to appreciate his game this season.

[footey]

Turner is still way better than people here gave him credit for.   

How much better do you think he is than people give him credit for?

He's a decent secondary ball-handler and occasional scorer to have on your bench.  His ability to create his own shot inside of 15 feet has helped the team when Isaiah isn't running the show, especially with Smart injured.  He's like a bigger Sean Livingston with better individual scoring ability.

All of this makes him a nice enough contributor to the team, but I'm not sure what additional credit he deserves.  Are we supposed to recognize him as one of the top players on the team?  Are we supposed to acknowledge that he's vindicated his draft status, or proven Philadelphia wrong for moving on from him?  What has he shown an ability to do this year that he hasn't done in the past?

Seriously, the number of cut/bench Evan Turner posts on here should tell you how little credit he gets.  Yes, he's like a bigger, better Shaun Livingston.  Livingston is a quality player on the best team in the league -- yet people here think Turner is dogmeat.  He's our 8th-highest paid player, and provides at least that much value.  No one is arguing Turner is a star.  But the vitriol towards him here is really inexplicable.  So what if he was #2 overall?  We didn't pick him then, so it's not like he cost us.  He suits up every day (hasn't missed a game in Green) ready to help at multiple positions, and hasn't had a hint of the locker room cancer reputation that preceded his arrival.  My only regret is that we didn't sign Turner for three seasons instead of two.

Edit: It's rare that I agree with LarBird.  Didn't even realize he was the one who made the comment!

TP

[Vox_Populi]

Turner clearly fills a necessary role on this team. He can create his shot in a very tangible way. He's one of the two reliable ball-handlers on the team. But advanced statistics hate him. He's second to last in BPM among Celtics with at least 200 minutes with a differential of -1.6, only one worse is Jerebko. With the same criteria, he's last on the team in RPM with one of -2.28. For both metrics, league average is 0 and replacement, or minimum contract, level is -2.

[chambers]

NBA surprises:

- That Steph Curry is getting even better. Much better.
-That Paul George only one year removed from his snapped leg, is a serious/top 3 MVP candidate.
-That the Clippers and Rockets are struggling so much. (particularly the Rockets and the firing of McHale.
-That Donovan looks like Scott Brooks 2.0 aka give the ball the Westbrook or Durant and hope for the best.
- That the Lakers front office is still purposely tanking. Yeah it's Kobe's last season but to have their coach out there pulling guys to stop them from winning is just pathetic. This is literally a franchise 'tank' from the front office to the coach on the sideline and they're paying the coach 4 million a year to lose.

Celtics surprises:

- that IT's defense in passing lanes has become very good. He's still a huge liability on switches, but the energy and effort of Smart/Bradley/Crowder is influencing him a lot. He REALLY wants to stay in the starting five.
- that we have a top 4 defense in the NBA. I knew it would be fairly good, but it's literally one of the best defenses in the league.Our trio of Smart, Bradley and Crowder are feared by wings around the NBA.
-That James Young appears to be on drugs 99% of the time he goes anywhere near an NBA court.
- That I am actually a fan of Evan Turner. He's accepted his role and is doing a very good job on both ends.
- The overall defensive improvement from all our players from IT to Sully, Olynyk and Turner.

[SHAQATTACK]

How good Warriors are.

Not sure that King James and Irving can unseat the champ..... If all the Warriors stay healthy.

They appear to be just practicing against most teams .  Waiting for LeBron to bring his "A" game , play hard ALL four quarters.

We won't see what LeBron has in his tank till he plays the Spurs and Warriors . 

[PhoSita]

To PhoSita... no, I don't think we're supposed to see Turner as a star.  Heading into this season, there were lots of posts about how Turner would be the odd man out of the rotation, how he was basically a garbage role player that we had no need for.   This despite the fact that during our run last season, he was arguably our best player.  And not surprisingly, he's still contributing quality minutes for us this year (5th most minutes at 26mpg).

Like I said before, Turner is a fine enough role player, especially for a team that needs a secondary ballhandler in a lot of its lineups so long as we're relying on still-raw and oft-injured Marcus Smart to handle point guard duties.

That shouldn't be confused with Turner being an especially valuable or difficult to replace player.  We just used a 1st round pick on yet another combo guard and he's been languishing on the bench.  We also used a 1st round pick on a wing who might have the shooting ability this team really needs at that spot (something Turner unequivocably does not have).

I'd much rather see Turner's minutes go to Rozier and Hunter, to be honest with you.  Turner has done a good job of refining himself within this secondary ball-handler role on this team, and he has at least one or two plays every game that are fun to watch and remind you of the talent that made him a high level prospect.  Nonetheless, it doesn't change my feeling that he's not a long term piece here, and I'd like to see if some of these young guys we used those picks on have a shot at being NBA players.


Turner is another one of those polarizing players around here if only because people treat commentary on him (as with so many things) like it can only fall into two camps -- either Turner is one of our best players, or Turner is trash who doesn't deserve playing time.  I think plenty of teams could make use of Turner if they were willing to let him run the offense for 10-20 minutes a night.  I'd just prefer for the Celts to give those guard and wing minutes to some of these younger guys we need to develop.

[PhoSita]

Turner clearly fills a necessary role on this team. He can create his shot in a very tangible way. He's one of the two reliable ball-handlers on the team. But advanced statistics hate him. He's second to last in BPM among Celtics with at least 200 minutes with a differential of -1.6, only one worse is Jerebko. With the same criteria, he's last on the team in RPM with one of -2.28. For both metrics, league average is 0 and replacement, or minimum contract, level is -2.

It's because our team is reliant on jumpers and he's a non shooter outside 15 feet, something we can hardly afford given the generally weak shooting elsewhere on the team.  Replace him with a decent backup guard who can run the pick and roll and hit a spot up three and I'd bet the team would be significantly improved, even if that backup guard doesn't wow you with spin layups, baseline fades, or dribble pull-ups just outside the paint.

[Celtics18]

Turner clearly fills a necessary role on this team. He can create his shot in a very tangible way. He's one of the two reliable ball-handlers on the team. But advanced statistics hate him. He's second to last in BPM among Celtics with at least 200 minutes with a differential of -1.6, only one worse is Jerebko. With the same criteria, he's last on the team in RPM with one of -2.28. For both metrics, league average is 0 and replacement, or minimum contract, level is -2.

It's because our team is reliant on jumpers and he's a non shooter outside 15 feet, something we can hardly afford given the generally weak shooting elsewhere on the team.  Replace him with a decent backup guard who can run the pick and roll and hit a spot up three and I'd bet the team would be significantly improved, even if that backup guard doesn't wow you with spin layups, baseline fades, or dribble pull-ups just outside the paint.

I'm curious if you have anyone specific in mind?  I can't think of a lot of readily available players who execute the pick and roll well and are good spot up shooters from behind the arc. 

Maybe RJ Hunter in a year or two. 

[oldtype]

Wait, Crowder is shooting 33% from three?

If someone had asked I probably would have guessed 23% off the top of my head. I scream whenever he takes one.

[PhoSita]

Turner clearly fills a necessary role on this team. He can create his shot in a very tangible way. He's one of the two reliable ball-handlers on the team. But advanced statistics hate him. He's second to last in BPM among Celtics with at least 200 minutes with a differential of -1.6, only one worse is Jerebko. With the same criteria, he's last on the team in RPM with one of -2.28. For both metrics, league average is 0 and replacement, or minimum contract, level is -2.

It's because our team is reliant on jumpers and he's a non shooter outside 15 feet, something we can hardly afford given the generally weak shooting elsewhere on the team.  Replace him with a decent backup guard who can run the pick and roll and hit a spot up three and I'd bet the team would be significantly improved, even if that backup guard doesn't wow you with spin layups, baseline fades, or dribble pull-ups just outside the paint.

I'm curious if you have anyone specific in mind?  I can't think of a lot of readily available players who execute the pick and roll well and are good spot up shooters from behind the arc. 

Maybe RJ Hunter in a year or two.

Jeremy Lin is always the guy who comes to mind for me as a backup point who does everything I like, but I know there are others.

Aaron Brooks, Patty Mills, D.J. Augustin are a few other guys who I've always kinda liked in that role.

Maybe Gary Neal.  Toney Douglas is an NBA player again with the Pelicans, hasn't looked bad.  Tyler Johnson has been good for Miami.  Those three are more of a stretch.

But really, I think adding a good shooter who's a competent, not necessarily great, ball-handler to this rotation in place of Turner would make the team significantly better.

The Celts are top 5 in the league in three attempts per game, but once again bottom 10 in three point percentage.