Flagrant Fouls

[sunnyd656]

Is anyone else a little disgusted by how they call these flagrant fouls? Oden just touched Griffin while he went up for a dunk, and even Van Gundy is saying it should be a Flagrant 2!? (Was a Flagrant 1).

Sometimes, it is where it's obvious a defender is like "Hey, no, you're gonna have to make the free throws pal." There would literally be less Hall of Famer's than their are now, simply because they can't hustle on defense and stop an open layup.

Okay, maybe one less, Dennis Rodman. But no matter what, you can't say he didn't leave his heart out on the court EVERY single game. Today's game, Dennis Rodman is thrown out of the league before the end of the 1st quarter.

Rodman is obviously the extreme example, as his every play was to beat you....literally. lol. But this kind of play, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ would literally have you disowned in the NBA today. Imagine if Durant or James did that, would be on ESPN until 2020.

Been drinking, so been ranting an obscene amount lol, but point is flagrant fouls are ridiculous in the NBA today.

And while a Technical is slightly different, it's ruled the same way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVFhkcYBl0

[D.o.s.]

I don't care strongly about it.

It's not like the players don't know what's considered a flagrant, and I know athletes are stereotypically stupid, but they should definitely realize that they're not playing in the 1980's--not with 1980's rules, and not with 1980's rule enforcement.

FWIW: Rodman's one of my favorite players. Another one of my favorite players--Robert Parish--got away with punching Bill Laimbeer in the face, in the playoffs. But that was then, and this is now.


Here's a fun article on that punch, by the way:

Mike Gorman and former Celtics player and coach Tom Heinsohn were announcing for the Boston-based Sportschannel.

``Parish`s tip won`t go,`` Gorman said. ``And, down low, Parish and Laimbeer. Robert Parish is hot.``

Heinsohn added: ``Well, Laimbeer has been pushing Robert Parish off every rebound. Just as the ball is about to hit the rim, he`ll push Robert Parish, and Robert just had enough of that.``

Gorman continued: ``I want to see what Jack Madden and Jess Kersey are going to call. Let`s take a look (at the replay).``

Heinsohn, said: ``There`s Robert Parish and it looked like Laimbeer hit him with an elbow. And Parish, `I had enough of you, Laimbeer,` and just let him have it.``

``Sure did,`` Gorman said.

``Let`s see if we can see the elbow,`` Heinsohn said. ``Right in Robert`s face. That`s what it`s all about. He`s been doing that the whole time, and there`s Robert retaliating.``

Heinsohn closed that summation by adding, ``Laimbeer`s really cute.``

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-06-01/sports/8702100767_1_sucker-punches-referees-nailed

[BballTim]

I don't care strongly about it.

It's not like the players don't know what's considered a flagrant, and I know athletes are stereotypically stupid, but they should definitely realize that they're not playing in the 1980's--not with 1980's rules, and not with 1980's rule enforcement.

FWIW: Rodman's one of my favorite players. Another one of my favorite players--Robert Parish--got away with punching Bill Laimbeer in the face, in the playoffs. But that was then, and this is now.


Here's a fun article on that punch, by the way:

Mike Gorman and former Celtics player and coach Tom Heinsohn were announcing for the Boston-based Sportschannel.

``Parish`s tip won`t go,`` Gorman said. ``And, down low, Parish and Laimbeer. Robert Parish is hot.``

Heinsohn added: ``Well, Laimbeer has been pushing Robert Parish off every rebound. Just as the ball is about to hit the rim, he`ll push Robert Parish, and Robert just had enough of that.``

Gorman continued: ``I want to see what Jack Madden and Jess Kersey are going to call. Let`s take a look (at the replay).``

Heinsohn, said: ``There`s Robert Parish and it looked like Laimbeer hit him with an elbow. And Parish, `I had enough of you, Laimbeer,` and just let him have it.``

``Sure did,`` Gorman said.

``Let`s see if we can see the elbow,`` Heinsohn said. ``Right in Robert`s face. That`s what it`s all about. He`s been doing that the whole time, and there`s Robert retaliating.``

Heinsohn closed that summation by adding, ``Laimbeer`s really cute.``

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-06-01/sports/8702100767_1_sucker-punches-referees-nailed

  Parrish ended up with a suspension though, didn't he?

[D.o.s.]

A one-game suspension and a fine.

Here's another relevant article and quote:

''Fighting has no part in our game, and we will do whatever it takes in terms of increased fines and suspensions to see that it is eliminated,'' said Rod Thorn, the league executive who announced the action.

However, my point was this (same article):

Laimbeer, the Pistons' center, and Parish were going for a rebound in the second quarter when Parish punched Laimbeer three times and knocked him down. Jess Kersey and Jack Madden, the officials, said they did not see the blows, and Parish was not penalized at the time.

After the incident and at the request of Chuck Daly, the Detroit coach, Kersey and Madden consulted a third official, at the scorer's table, but still no foul was called. Kersey was the official nearest to the incident.

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/28/sports/parish-banned-for-game-six.html

[sunnyd656]

Yeah, I probably went on the VERY extreme side of this argument. However, it's more about today's rules than how they played back then. I'm in no way saying it's hustle, heart or skill to elbow people in the face. Back then it's just how the game was played, I agree that you can't compare the times.

This play I think from Dennis Rodman explains exactly what I meant, the original foul was hard, clean and said "Nope, make your free throws." However, the 100% push/shove/throw he made after the foul is what separates "those" fouls, from the fouls I'm really getting at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhQyaKWsQy8

Had that play ended after the jump into the back and swinging downward to block, nothing besides free throws would have even crossed ANYONE's mind. (Not to mention that they called the push a Flagrant 1... yes the one with the Bruce Lee ninja finish.) Had that play happened today, (Without the pushing at the end), we'd be at the monitor for 12 minutes figuring out if it was a flagrant 1 or 2.

And I'm not singling out certain people here, Lebron just got hit with a Technical for walking away (swimming pool can't run so you speed walk) after the ref made a questionable call.

TL;DR: My 5th grade sister's teams allow "harder" intentional fouls to stop an easy basket. And Technical fouls are as ridiculous as they would be if the old grandpa referee from 8 Crazy Night's came and sang right in front of our face.


And I blame Joe Crawford for now having "That's a teccchhnicall fouuullll" in my head.
 

[Onslaught]

It's become ridiculously soft now. Perhaps the 80's were too harsh, I'd argue not seeing that it's looked at as some of the best ball ever. But things have swung way too far the other way.

[GreenWarrior]

personally I think they should allow fighting. do it the same way it's done in hockey. if they did i'd bet you'd see a lot of these fake tough guys play a lil differently.

as far as flagrants go, I have generally agreed with most of the flagrants I've seen called, or at least I don't recall any egregious calls that I disagreed with(although i'm sure perk and KG had 1 or 2 that I didn't agree with but can't remember).

the thing with blake griffin is the fact that teams are head hunting with that guy because they say he's soft. so I think the refs are right in putting an end to that nonsense.

now, if we wanna get on the subject of non-flagrant fouls and general officiating I definitely have some gripes there.