Author Topic: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou  (Read 3657 times)

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Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« on: December 27, 2013, 08:12:29 PM »

Offline WW1MR

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Just me playing with the trade machine. I'm generally not in favor of moving Rondo. Just looking at what's going on in the league and thinking about the trade deadline. This would be a tank for the immediate future move. Here it is.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lyeb8bz

Boston gets:
A. Horford
J. Lin
D. Carroll
D. Schroder
Atlanta gives up right to swap Brooklyn's 2014 1 round pick making it ours


Atlanta gets:
O. Asik
J. Green
New York's unprotected 2014 2 round pick from Houston


Houston gets:
R. Rondo
K. Olynyk

Boston gets Carroll on a cheap 2 yr deal for Green on his 3 yr deal. Gets a nice pick from Brooklyn this year and last year's mid-first round point guard Schroder for Rondo. If Horford can return to form after this second pec tear he could be a the true center we need.

Atlanta  was closer to win-now then rebuild before Horford's injury. They get a replacement center and a high 2nd round pick this year for injured Horford. Green is an upgrade or a wash at the 3. Maybe throw in our Clippers 2015 1 rounder if they need more to part with Horford and the rights to swap with Brooklyn.

Houston gets the best package they can for their castoffs Lin and Asik. They don't get the pick they want, but they get the best player in trade and a young stretch 4 who can play next to Howard and develop. Imagine Rondo, Harden, Parsons, Jones, Howard. Houston even throws in a high 2nd round in loaded 2014 draft to grease the wheels in ATL.

Thoughts on this from a rebuilding (or tanking) perspective?
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you..." (R. Kipling)

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 08:27:47 PM »

Offline gpap

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I am not one for tanking, making other teams better and ours worse.

Plus, I don't think the A.T.L. deals Horford.

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 08:46:13 PM »

Offline WW1MR

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Quote
I am not one for tanking, making other teams better and ours worse.

No I hear you, and I really like Rondo.
But do the Hawks trade Horford for Rondo before Horford's injury? I think no. Will Rondo come back to form after his ACL or will the injury forever limit his explosiveness? Will Horford return to form for that matter? Is Jeff Green what he is (sometimes disappearing) and is Carroll more consistent, if less of a scorer?  Can we continue to enjoy what success we've had this season with Crawford at the point? How bad can Brooklyn be (how high will that pick be this year)? Could ATL slip and BKN surge making our switcheroo is this trade be a losing gamble. Or could the Nets pick be so good this year in a draft loaded with talented forwards make Jeff Green totally expendable?

Many questions but I don't know if the proposed trade makes us necessarily worse long term and I think our ceiling as a team is not yet at Championship level as currently constructed. Danny will make some bold moves to change our squad. Will he opportunistically pluck  Horford (who as you point out might not be available even now) from the Hawks while selling low on a damaged-goods athleticism-dependant point guard in Rondo??? Someone pointed out that of the 4 big injury comeback candidates this year (Rondo, Rose, Horford, Kobe) all three who have played a game in 2013 have re-injured themselves. Could Rondo be next? Probably not.

Just trying to start a discussion.

WW1MR
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you..." (R. Kipling)

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 09:01:33 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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awful trade for Atlanta.  They give up the best player by far (Horford) and arguably the best asset (Brooklyns 2014 pick) ... for what?  TurkPerk and Poor Man's Granger?  No way.

If you want to be realistic about it... you have it backwards...

If Boston is getting HOrford they'd probably have to give up the rights to the Brooklyn pick.  In other words... Boston would give up Brooklyn's 2014 pick to Atlanta so that atlanta would get their own pick AND Brooklyn's pick.  That way Atlanta can safely tank in a post-Horford world.

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 09:18:02 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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If we're talking a Boston/Atlanta swap... here's what I got for you:


Atlanta sends: 

Al Horford (12 mil 3 years)
Filler (Brands' 4 mil expiring)

Boston sends:

Jeff Green (9 mil 3 years)
Brandon Bass (6 mil 2 years)
Crawford (2 mil)
Brooklyn/Atlanta's 2014 pick
Clippers 2015 pick

Why for Boston:

They are on the verge of the lotto already.  They can shut down Rondo and Horford for the rest of the season.  Losing Crawford, Bass and Green would be catastrophic for the season... we should plummet to the bottom of the standings while force-feeding minutes to Bradley, Oly and Sully.   That probably nets us a Top 8 pick... next season Rondo and Horford come back and we'll instantly be a competent team.  Also, if things continue to play out this way, Atlanta is getting Brooklyn's pick anyways... so it's little loss.


Why for the Hawks: 

They lose the best player.  They were the third best team in the East... almost a lock for the playoffs.  Gaining Green, Bass and Crawford keep them as a playoff team this year.  Also, they officially gain Brooklyn's 2014 pick without having to swap for it.  That means they get to keep their pick as well... so even if things don't work out and they miss the playoffs despite adding Green, Bass and Crawford... they would have two lotto picks to build around (their own and Brooklyn's) as well as the Clippers pick next season.   

Atlanta still probably says no.  We could also swap out Crawford for either Fav or Oly if they'd prefer a replacement big.  But presuming Atlanta then swapped out Milisap for Asik (Houston wanted Milisap), they'd then have a pretty solid lineup: PG - Teague, SG - Crawford/Korver, SF - Green/Caroll, PF - Bass, C - Asik ... good enough for the playoffs in this garbage conference. 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 09:29:19 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 09:25:35 PM »

Offline WW1MR

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Quote
awful trade for Atlanta.  They give up the best player by far (Horford) and arguably the best asset (Brooklyns 2014 pick) ... for what?  TurkPerk and Poor Man's Granger?  No way.

If you want to be realistic about it... you have it backwards...

If Boston is getting HOrford they'd probably have to give up the rights to the Brooklyn pick.  In other words... Boston would give up Brooklyn's 2014 pick to Atlanta so that atlanta would get their own pick AND Brooklyn's pick.  That way Atlanta can safely tank in a post-Horford world.

yeah you're probably right. Maybe take out the 2014 BKN pick to boston and ask Houston to throw in their unprotected 2014 1st OR both their 14' and 15' unprotected NYK 2nds for Rondo. The hawks are 3rd in the East now, high above the Bobcats w/ next best record. The Bobcats. We would be facilitating Asik to the Hawks because if Horford is done for the season they need a center b/c the East is too bad for them to tank. They'll need help to pick up the scoring slack bringing Asik in. Jeff is a modest upgrade, from what I can tell, to their depth chart at the 3.
Nah, you're probably right, I'm delusional and I don't even want Danny to trade Rondo. The C's have a bright future.

Plus, as mentioned in another thread, Horford's injury evens out the proposition of our lesser of the Hawks or Nets 2014 first round pick  will be pretty good no matter where our lands.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you..." (R. Kipling)

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 09:32:43 PM »

Offline WW1MR

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Quote
Atlanta sends: 

Al Horford (12 mil 3 years)
Filler (Brands' 4 mil expiring)

Boston sends:

Jeff Green (9 mil 3 years)
Brandon Bass (6 mil 2 years)
Crawford (2 mil)
Brooklyn's 2014 pick
Clippers 2015 pick

TPLarBrd33.. make it two teams and leave Rondo out of it. Sell high on Crawford and Bass and clear the jam at the 2 and 4 spot. Losing Bass' scoring and starting Gerald Wallace, bring Rondo back slowly well after the All-Star break… would help us with our 1st round draft pick this year. Don't like giving up the picks though, and I'm not even sure, without a true center coming back and they've got Milsap, if the Hawks would do that.
"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you..." (R. Kipling)

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2013, 09:46:59 PM »

Offline Chris.J

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If we're talking a Boston/Atlanta swap... here's what I got for you:


Atlanta sends: 

Al Horford (12 mil 3 years)
Filler (Brands' 4 mil expiring)

Boston sends:

Jeff Green (9 mil 3 years)
Brandon Bass (6 mil 2 years)
Crawford (2 mil)
Brooklyn/Atlanta's 2014 pick
Clippers 2015 pick

Why for Boston:

They are on the verge of the lotto already.  They can shut down Rondo and Horford for the rest of the season.  Losing Crawford, Bass and Green would be catastrophic for the season... we should plummet to the bottom of the standings while force-feeding minutes to Bradley, Oly and Sully.   That probably nets us a Top 8 pick... next season Rondo and Horford come back and we'll instantly be a competent team.  Also, if things continue to play out this way, Atlanta is getting Brooklyn's pick anyways... so it's little loss.


Why for the Hawks: 

They lose the best player.  They were the third best team in the East... almost a lock for the playoffs.  Gaining Green, Bass and Crawford keep them as a playoff team this year.  Also, they officially gain Brooklyn's 2014 pick without having to swap for it.  That means they get to keep their pick as well... so even if things don't work out and they miss the playoffs despite adding Green, Bass and Crawford... they would have two lotto picks to build around (their own and Brooklyn's) as well as the Clippers pick next season.   

Atlanta still probably says no.  We could also swap out Crawford for either Fav or Oly if they'd prefer a replacement big.  But presuming Atlanta then swapped out Milisap for Asik (Houston wanted Milisap), they'd then have a pretty solid lineup: PG - Teague, SG - Crawford/Korver, SF - Green/Caroll, PF - Bass, C - Asik ... good enough for the playoffs in this garbage conference.


I like your idea a lot. Just I think I would give up sully instead of al those draft picks. Don't get me wrong I think Sully is a great player but if we are getting a PF (which is where I like seeing Horford) then that sort of leaves Sully as the odd man out. Plus it would be hard parting with so many unprotected picks like that.

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2013, 09:50:37 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Quote
Atlanta sends: 

Al Horford (12 mil 3 years)
Filler (Brands' 4 mil expiring)

Boston sends:

Jeff Green (9 mil 3 years)
Brandon Bass (6 mil 2 years)
Crawford (2 mil)
Brooklyn's 2014 pick
Clippers 2015 pick

TPLarBrd33.. make it two teams and leave Rondo out of it. Sell high on Crawford and Bass and clear the jam at the 2 and 4 spot. Losing Bass' scoring and starting Gerald Wallace, bring Rondo back slowly well after the All-Star break… would help us with our 1st round draft pick this year. Don't like giving up the picks though, and I'm not even sure, without a true center coming back and they've got Milsap, if the Hawks would do that.
Houston had been asking Atlanta for Milsap and Atlanta declined.   If that above trade went down, maybe Atlanta would change their mind on Milsap for Asik.

They then would have Asik and Bass as their starting bigs.  Along with Green, Crawford, Teague and Korver... it's a respectable team that would probably make the playoffs in the Least.   Then they'd have their own pick (currently projected #20) and Brooklyn's pick (currently top 6)... shoot... Brooklyn's pick could end up in the Top 3 in the lotto*... say Atlanta lands Wiggins with that pick... they'd be set.  PG - Teague, SG - Wiggins, SF - Green, PF - Bass, C - Asik

Then say Boston completely craps the bed for the rest of the season... sits Horford/Rondo for the rest of the year, falls into the Lotto and nabs Jabari Parker.  Now they got PG - Rondo, SG - Bradley, SF - Parker, PF - Sully, C - HOrford...  Paul Pierce, Fav, Oly, Lee, Wallace and a bought-out Kevin Garnett off the bench.

Win/Win.   Make it happen, Danny.

*footnote:  Truthfully, I think Brooklyn still makes the playoffs and probably finishes ahead of Atlanta anyways.  They are only a couple games out of the playoffs as-is.  I'd sell high on that pick now and Atlanta has the rights to it anyways.  Relinquishing that pick to atlanta means less about teh Brooklyn pick and more about the Hawks pick (currently projected 20th).  Letting Atlanta have both picks lets them tank in peace without having to worry about giving up one of the two picks
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 10:08:09 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2013, 10:29:58 PM »

Offline gpap

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I am not one for tanking, making other teams better and ours worse.

No I hear you, and I really like Rondo.
But do the Hawks trade Horford for Rondo before Horford's injury? I think no. Will Rondo come back to form after his ACL or will the injury forever limit his explosiveness? Will Horford return to form for that matter? Is Jeff Green what he is (sometimes disappearing) and is Carroll more consistent, if less of a scorer?  Can we continue to enjoy what success we've had this season with Crawford at the point? How bad can Brooklyn be (how high will that pick be this year)? Could ATL slip and BKN surge making our switcheroo is this trade be a losing gamble. Or could the Nets pick be so good this year in a draft loaded with talented forwards make Jeff Green totally expendable?

Many questions but I don't know if the proposed trade makes us necessarily worse long term and I think our ceiling as a team is not yet at Championship level as currently constructed. Danny will make some bold moves to change our squad. Will he opportunistically pluck  Horford (who as you point out might not be available even now) from the Hawks while selling low on a damaged-goods athleticism-dependant point guard in Rondo??? Someone pointed out that of the 4 big injury comeback candidates this year (Rondo, Rose, Horford, Kobe) all three who have played a game in 2013 have re-injured themselves. Could Rondo be next? Probably not.

Just trying to start a discussion.

WW1MR

Yeah, I just don't think Atlanta would deal Horford, injury or not. And if they did deal him now, I don't know that I'd want him. I mean that's two different pectoral injuries in two years so that's got to make you wonder.

If I were Ainge, with Atlanta now losing their best player, I would try to remain competitive, acquire a legit big like Asik and try to make a playoff push.

Let Atlanta and Brooklyn sink so that way we cash in on their demise instead of our own

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2013, 10:35:41 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I am not one for tanking, making other teams better and ours worse.

No I hear you, and I really like Rondo.
But do the Hawks trade Horford for Rondo before Horford's injury? I think no. Will Rondo come back to form after his ACL or will the injury forever limit his explosiveness? Will Horford return to form for that matter? Is Jeff Green what he is (sometimes disappearing) and is Carroll more consistent, if less of a scorer?  Can we continue to enjoy what success we've had this season with Crawford at the point? How bad can Brooklyn be (how high will that pick be this year)? Could ATL slip and BKN surge making our switcheroo is this trade be a losing gamble. Or could the Nets pick be so good this year in a draft loaded with talented forwards make Jeff Green totally expendable?

Many questions but I don't know if the proposed trade makes us necessarily worse long term and I think our ceiling as a team is not yet at Championship level as currently constructed. Danny will make some bold moves to change our squad. Will he opportunistically pluck  Horford (who as you point out might not be available even now) from the Hawks while selling low on a damaged-goods athleticism-dependant point guard in Rondo??? Someone pointed out that of the 4 big injury comeback candidates this year (Rondo, Rose, Horford, Kobe) all three who have played a game in 2013 have re-injured themselves. Could Rondo be next? Probably not.

Just trying to start a discussion.

WW1MR

Yeah, I just don't think Atlanta would deal Horford, injury or not. And if they did deal him now, I don't know that I'd want him. I mean that's two different pectoral injuries in two years so that's got to make you wonder.

If I were Ainge, with Atlanta now losing their best player, I would try to remain competitive, acquire a legit big like Asik and try to make a playoff push.

Let Atlanta and Brooklyn sink so that way we cash in on their demise instead of our own
I think at this moment if I had to guess... I'd say either Brooklyn makes the playoffs or they both make the playoffs.  I don't see a scenario where we end up with a lotto pick out of those two teams.  Brooklyn is only a couple games out of the playoffs as-is and I think they'll eventually win a few games.  Too much talent to keep losing.  50+ games for them to get it together.  If Atlanta falls into the lotto, they'll just hang onto their pick.

Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 12:11:18 AM »

Offline aporel#18

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Al Horford is an All Star, and when healthy he's the best player in the trade, but after his second pectoral tear, I don't know if I'd give up so much for him. Even if he's able to recover completely (hopefully), I think there would be a durability concern.

Danny doesn't need to pull the trigger, he paid the Grizzlies good money to take care of Fab Melo, so if I'm him I wouldn't rush anything. If there's a good offer, take it.


Re: Trade Idea: Bos-Atl-Hou
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2013, 03:40:46 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Al Horford is an All Star, and when healthy he's the best player in the trade, but after his second pectoral tear, I don't know if I'd give up so much for him. Even if he's able to recover completely (hopefully), I think there would be a durability concern.

Danny doesn't need to pull the trigger, he paid the Grizzlies good money to take care of Fab Melo, so if I'm him I wouldn't rush anything. If there's a good offer, take it.
I don't think Horford is available anyways.