Terrence Williams gets his charges dropped

[Roy H.]

It's easy to judge when you aren't in the situation and don't know the situation.

Maybe the other guy had a knife, or a bat, or a some type of weapon.  Maybe he was threatening to chase them, and Terrence felt simply driving away wouldn't remove the threat - he had to give the guy a reason to fear them enough to let them go.

He's in the car with his son, and is a natural instinct for a father to get especially protective when his son, is threatened.  He may feel bad that his son had to see him with a gun, by at the same time he may have no regrets, knowing that flashing the gun scared the guy off enough for he and his son to get away safely.

If the law has accepted his actions then it suggests he had reason for acting how he did.  They must have concluded that his actions were reasonable and/or justifiable.  Unless we we there is very difficult for us to judge.

As for this being worse than the Sully situation, how?  Reports are that Sully was physically aggressive / assaulted (to some degree) his girl friend, who probably offered little threat to a 6'9" and 260lb guy with Sully's strength.  Williams flashed a weapon at a man who was threatening to bring harm to him and potentially his young son.  Most father's would do anything to protect their child.

Now Sully's case is not clear cut, but I believe it's already been confirmed that he laid his hands on his gf in an aggressive way.  Maybe he didn't hit her and he just grabbed her aggressively or pushed her...it's still domestic violence.  Williams to my knowledge didn't lay a hand on the guy, just flashed a gun to scare him away.  Assuming what I've read soo far is accurate in both cases, Sully's crime is far worse.

You're making up facts all over the place.

1.  There was no allegation, including by Williams, that anybody had a weapon other than him.

2.  There's no allegation that anybody threatened to chase Williams.

3.  His son wasn't in the car.  (There's an allegation that the son stepped in between Williams and his ex after Williams pulled / flashed his gun.  We don't know if this is true, but Williams didn't dispute it publicly.)

4.  I'm not sure where it was confirmed that Sully "laid his hands on his gf in an aggressive way". 

5.  Where are you getting the idea that Williams never touched his gun?  He admitted to pulling it out, holding it to his side, and stepping out of his vehicle.

Do you have any access to Williams' full version of the events of the case?  All I know is that he felt threatened and showed his gun to extricate himself from the situation.  Obviously, the prosecution felt like he acted in self-defense.  That's why they dropped the case. 

I don't understand your zeal to villify a man who hasn't been found guilty of anything while (as far as I know) the events of the case are very hazy.

George Zimmerman acted in self-defense, too.  That didn't stop a lot of folks (including yourself) from vilifying him. 

There are plenty of scummy people who do bad things without being found legally guilty of anything.  I think that displaying / pulling a gun out on your child's mother, in front of that child, fits that description.  Williams had other options, and he chose not to take them.  Even with the benefit of hindsight, and realizing that his son was hurt, he still wouldn't change a thing.  These are all facts that come from Williams' version of events.

I guess I find it a little disturbing / disappointing that there are so many people who don't find that type of behavior at least a bit concerning. 

[Celtics18]

It's easy to judge when you aren't in the situation and don't know the situation.

Maybe the other guy had a knife, or a bat, or a some type of weapon.  Maybe he was threatening to chase them, and Terrence felt simply driving away wouldn't remove the threat - he had to give the guy a reason to fear them enough to let them go.

He's in the car with his son, and is a natural instinct for a father to get especially protective when his son, is threatened.  He may feel bad that his son had to see him with a gun, by at the same time he may have no regrets, knowing that flashing the gun scared the guy off enough for he and his son to get away safely.

If the law has accepted his actions then it suggests he had reason for acting how he did.  They must have concluded that his actions were reasonable and/or justifiable.  Unless we we there is very difficult for us to judge.

As for this being worse than the Sully situation, how?  Reports are that Sully was physically aggressive / assaulted (to some degree) his girl friend, who probably offered little threat to a 6'9" and 260lb guy with Sully's strength.  Williams flashed a weapon at a man who was threatening to bring harm to him and potentially his young son.  Most father's would do anything to protect their child.

Now Sully's case is not clear cut, but I believe it's already been confirmed that he laid his hands on his gf in an aggressive way.  Maybe he didn't hit her and he just grabbed her aggressively or pushed her...it's still domestic violence.  Williams to my knowledge didn't lay a hand on the guy, just flashed a gun to scare him away.  Assuming what I've read soo far is accurate in both cases, Sully's crime is far worse.

You're making up facts all over the place.

1.  There was no allegation, including by Williams, that anybody had a weapon other than him.

2.  There's no allegation that anybody threatened to chase Williams.

3.  His son wasn't in the car.  (There's an allegation that the son stepped in between Williams and his ex after Williams pulled / flashed his gun.  We don't know if this is true, but Williams didn't dispute it publicly.)

4.  I'm not sure where it was confirmed that Sully "laid his hands on his gf in an aggressive way". 

5.  Where are you getting the idea that Williams never touched his gun?  He admitted to pulling it out, holding it to his side, and stepping out of his vehicle.

Do you have any access to Williams' full version of the events of the case?  All I know is that he felt threatened and showed his gun to extricate himself from the situation.  Obviously, the prosecution felt like he acted in self-defense.  That's why they dropped the case. 

I don't understand your zeal to villify a man who hasn't been found guilty of anything while (as far as I know) the events of the case are very hazy.

George Zimmerman acted in self-defense, too.  That didn't stop a lot of folks (including yourself) from vilifying him. 

There are plenty of scummy people who do bad things without being found legally guilty of anything.  I think that displaying / pulling a gun out on your child's mother, in front of that child, fits that description.  Williams had other options, and he chose not to take them.  Even with the benefit of hindsight, and realizing that his son was hurt, he still wouldn't change a thing.  These are all facts that come from Williams' version of events.

I guess I find it a little disturbing / disappointing that there are so many people who don't find that type of behavior at least a bit concerning.

The problem is that you don't really know what the other options were.  As you were careful to remind everyone in the Sullinger discussion, we don't really know what happened as we weren't there. 

I've read (I think) most of the stuff that's publicly come out about this case.  I don't have enough information to determine the quality of Terrence Williams' character based on that information.

Apparently you do.  And, it seems that nothing will convince you otherwise.  So, I guess, that's that.

[sed522002]

It's easy to judge when you aren't in the situation and don't know the situation.

Maybe the other guy had a knife, or a bat, or a some type of weapon.  Maybe he was threatening to chase them, and Terrence felt simply driving away wouldn't remove the threat - he had to give the guy a reason to fear them enough to let them go.

He's in the car with his son, and is a natural instinct for a father to get especially protective when his son, is threatened.  He may feel bad that his son had to see him with a gun, by at the same time he may have no regrets, knowing that flashing the gun scared the guy off enough for he and his son to get away safely.

If the law has accepted his actions then it suggests he had reason for acting how he did.  They must have concluded that his actions were reasonable and/or justifiable.  Unless we we there is very difficult for us to judge.

As for this being worse than the Sully situation, how?  Reports are that Sully was physically aggressive / assaulted (to some degree) his girl friend, who probably offered little threat to a 6'9" and 260lb guy with Sully's strength.  Williams flashed a weapon at a man who was threatening to bring harm to him and potentially his young son.  Most father's would do anything to protect their child.

Now Sully's case is not clear cut, but I believe it's already been confirmed that he laid his hands on his gf in an aggressive way.  Maybe he didn't hit her and he just grabbed her aggressively or pushed her...it's still domestic violence.  Williams to my knowledge didn't lay a hand on the guy, just flashed a gun to scare him away.  Assuming what I've read soo far is accurate in both cases, Sully's crime is far worse.

You're making up facts all over the place.

1.  There was no allegation, including by Williams, that anybody had a weapon other than him.

2.  There's no allegation that anybody threatened to chase Williams.

3.  His son wasn't in the car.  (There's an allegation that the son stepped in between Williams and his ex after Williams pulled / flashed his gun.  We don't know if this is true, but Williams didn't dispute it publicly.)

4.  I'm not sure where it was confirmed that Sully "laid his hands on his gf in an aggressive way". 

5.  Where are you getting the idea that Williams never touched his gun?  He admitted to pulling it out, holding it to his side, and stepping out of his vehicle.

Do you have any access to Williams' full version of the events of the case?  All I know is that he felt threatened and showed his gun to extricate himself from the situation.  Obviously, the prosecution felt like he acted in self-defense.  That's why they dropped the case. 

I don't understand your zeal to villify a man who hasn't been found guilty of anything while (as far as I know) the events of the case are very hazy.

George Zimmerman acted in self-defense, too.  That didn't stop a lot of folks (including yourself) from vilifying him. 

There are plenty of scummy people who do bad things without being found legally guilty of anything.  I think that displaying / pulling a gun out on your child's mother, in front of that child, fits that description.  Williams had other options, and he chose not to take them.  Even with the benefit of hindsight, and realizing that his son was hurt, he still wouldn't change a thing.  These are all facts that come from Williams' version of events.

I guess I find it a little disturbing / disappointing that there are so many people who don't find that type of behavior at least a bit concerning.

The problem is that you don't really know what the other options were.  As you were careful to remind everyone in the Sullinger discussion, we don't really know what happened as we weren't there. 

I've read (I think) most of the stuff that's publicly come out about this case.  I don't have enough information to determine the quality of Terrence Williams' character based on that information.

Apparently you do.  And, it seems that nothing will convince you otherwise.  So, I guess, that's that.

I've been reading back and forth on this thread, and his mind is definitely set on his opinion of TWill (which is fine), there just shouldn't be this double standard of how people feel about Sully then. His gf said this wasn't his first time being violent (just his first time putting his hands on her). All this shows is that we don't really know ANY of these players besides what we're spoon fed from the media.

[Roy H.]

I've been reading back and forth on this thread, and his mind is definitely set on his opinion of TWill (which is fine), there just shouldn't be this double standard of how people feel about Sully then. His gf said this wasn't his first time being violent (just his first time putting his hands on her). All this shows is that we don't really know ANY of these players besides what we're spoon fed from the media.

I'm not sure if you're using "double standard" correctly.

In TWill's case, I'm judging him based upon what *he* says happened.  I'm not taking the accuser's side; she seems like she's got some issues of her own.  Based upon what TWill said happened, I'm forming an opinion that he's much too quick to whip out his gun in front of his 10 year old, and it doesn't look like he gained any sort of insight from the situation.

In Sully's case, we haven't heard from him.  He hasn't given his side.  Until we have more information, it's not really clear what happened.  Just like it would be unfair to judge Williams based only upon the account of his accuser, it's unfair to judge Sullinger in the same way.

There's no double standard.  If Sully admits to domestic violence, or if he's adjudicated guilty, I'll judge him harshly, as well.  However, he hasn't presented his side of facts, so I'm unsure of whatever he did is worse than pulling out a gun in front of a 10 year old child, and then saying in hindsight it was the right thing to do despite that 10 year old being traumatized.

[sed522002]

I've been reading back and forth on this thread, and his mind is definitely set on his opinion of TWill (which is fine), there just shouldn't be this double standard of how people feel about Sully then. His gf said this wasn't his first time being violent (just his first time putting his hands on her). All this shows is that we don't really know ANY of these players besides what we're spoon fed from the media.

I'm not sure if you're using "double standard" correctly.

In TWill's case, I'm judging him based upon what *he* says happened.  I'm not taking the accuser's side; she seems like she's got some issues of her own.  Based upon what TWill said happened, I'm forming an opinion that he's much too quick to whip out his gun in front of his 10 year old, and it doesn't look like he gained any sort of insight from the situation.

In Sully's case, we haven't heard from him.  He hasn't given his side.  Until we have more information, it's not really clear what happened.  Just like it would be unfair to judge Williams based only upon the account of his accuser, it's unfair to judge Sullinger in the same way.

There's no double standard.  If Sully admits to domestic violence, or if he's adjudicated guilty, I'll judge him harshly, as well.  However, he hasn't presented his side of facts, so I'm unsure of whatever he did is worse than pulling out a gun in front of a 10 year old child, and then saying in hindsight it was the right thing to do despite that 10 year old being traumatized.

I'm not going to get in a drawn out debate, because we haven't heard the full side of this story either. The case was dropped and Sully's is still pending.

My main question is the prosecution making an example of Sully or do they really have something that they feel they can use against him? Especially since the gf says she wants to drop charges.

[Roy H.]

My main question is the prosecution making an example of Sully or do they really have something that they feel they can use against him? Especially since the gf says she wants to drop charges.

We don't know if the prosecution is ultimately going to move forward with this case or not.  It's still pretty early in the process.

However, it's not unusual for a DA to file charges even if the alleged victim isn't pressing the issue.  It's not so much about "making an example" as it is a recognition that in a lot of cases, victims of crimes need to be protected (and perpetrators of those crimes need to be punished), even if the victim wants to reconcile.

That said, it's always hard to take a case to trial with an uncooperative witness, which is why so many DV cases get pled down to disorderly conduct.

[Celtics18]

I've been reading back and forth on this thread, and his mind is definitely set on his opinion of TWill (which is fine), there just shouldn't be this double standard of how people feel about Sully then. His gf said this wasn't his first time being violent (just his first time putting his hands on her). All this shows is that we don't really know ANY of these players besides what we're spoon fed from the media.

I'm not sure if you're using "double standard" correctly.

In TWill's case, I'm judging him based upon what *he* says happened.  I'm not taking the accuser's side; she seems like she's got some issues of her own.  Based upon what TWill said happened, I'm forming an opinion that he's much too quick to whip out his gun in front of his 10 year old, and it doesn't look like he gained any sort of insight from the situation.

In Sully's case, we haven't heard from him.  He hasn't given his side.  Until we have more information, it's not really clear what happened.  Just like it would be unfair to judge Williams based only upon the account of his accuser, it's unfair to judge Sullinger in the same way.

There's no double standard.  If Sully admits to domestic violence, or if he's adjudicated guilty, I'll judge him harshly, as well.  However, he hasn't presented his side of facts, so I'm unsure of whatever he did is worse than pulling out a gun in front of a 10 year old child, and then saying in hindsight it was the right thing to do despite that 10 year old being traumatized.

Again, I don't know where you are getting a detailed report of what Terrence Williams has said happened.  All I've seen is a couple of tweets and some very non-specific statements from him. 

I'm not willing to claim a deep understanding or knowledge of the case based on that limited information.

[Roy H.]

  I'm not willing to claim a deep understanding or knowledge of the case based on that limited information.

That's fair.  However, it's also fair for those who have read more of the information out there -- which is pretty easy to find with a google search -- to give their opinion on the matter.

[Celtics18]

  I'm not willing to claim a deep understanding or knowledge of the case based on that limited information.

That's fair.  However, it's also fair for those who have read more of the information out there -- which is pretty easy to find with a google search -- to give their opinion on the matter.

I've done the google searches and haven't found all that much.  Would you share the links to the articles that provide more in-depth information about the case?

[Roy H.]

  I'm not willing to claim a deep understanding or knowledge of the case based on that limited information.

That's fair.  However, it's also fair for those who have read more of the information out there -- which is pretty easy to find with a google search -- to give their opinion on the matter.

I've done the google searches and haven't found all that much.  Would you share the links to the articles that provide more in-depth information about the case?

He said he pulled out a handgun and, holding it to his side, briefly stepped out of the vehicle, then eventually got back in the car and drove out of the complex.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/05/terrence_williams_up_on_charges

Beyond that, I'd again tell you to do some research.

[Celtics18]

  I'm not willing to claim a deep understanding or knowledge of the case based on that limited information.

That's fair.  However, it's also fair for those who have read more of the information out there -- which is pretty easy to find with a google search -- to give their opinion on the matter.

I've done the google searches and haven't found all that much.  Would you share the links to the articles that provide more in-depth information about the case?

He said he pulled out a handgun and, holding it to his side, briefly stepped out of the vehicle, then eventually got back in the car and drove out of the complex.

http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/05/terrence_williams_up_on_charges

Beyond that, I'd again tell you to do some research.

Thanks, Roy.

That's one of the articles that I've already read.  It doesn't give much detail as to the level of threat that Williams felt, or what his other avenues were (if there were any) for getting out of a violent altercation. 

Like I said earlier, the possibility exists that he could have felt hemmed in, even inside his vehicle, and not seen an appropriate way to get out of there without showing those who were threatening him that he was armed. 

That's just a theory, but it is a possibility.  I still haven't seen anything to indicate that him pulling out his firearm might not have been an appropriate response to the level of threat that he felt. 

[LEHGOCELTICS]

Politics aside, really wanted T-Will to stay a Celtic. sigh. Can we please bring him and Shav back?

[wdleehi]

Politics aside, really wanted T-Will to stay a Celtic. sigh. Can we please bring him and Shav back?

Why?  They are journey men that sit at the end of the bench. 



There is no major upside.  The Celtics have already learned what they wanted to know about them.  The team moved on. 

[nickagneta]

I don't care if the charges were dropped in the Williams case or if they get dropped in the Sullinger case. These guys did stuff I find despicable and they are not people I like anymore. Flashing an armed weapon in front of your little kid while in the middle of a verbal altercation with your ex during a custody exchange is just a scummy thing to do. Being 8-12 inches taller and 100-125 pounds larger than your girlfriend and pushing her around and getting on top of her twice to prevent her from leaving the house during a verbal altercation is scummy thing to do.

Williams was always a borderline NBA Player so the C's moved on, I am fine with that. Sullinger is a real top notch young prospect who could have All-Star type potential so the C's have to put up with his transgression and hope he learns from it and becomes a better person for having made that mistake. Fine. Doesn't mean I have to like Sully. All I want is for him to do well on the court for the C's. I have cheered on some other players with questionable personal lives before(Larry Bird was a dead beat dad for years, Roger Clemens was always a despicable egotistical human being, even in Boston), I guess I can do it again. But I won't like it.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Its been almost four months since Terrence Williams was charged.

It is now that the cases and the judge clearly dismissed it on the legal grounds of it being clear self defense.

http://www.kiviatlaw.com/blog

The attorney writes on the first page of the blog.

"On September 7, 2013, the King County Prosecutors Office declined to file any criminal charges against Terrence Williams for an incident that was alleged to have occurred on May 19, 2013.

Terrence feels grateful for the diligent and thorough investigation that the King County Prosecutors Office and the Kent Police Department conducted in this matter.

Terrence was confident from the beginning that he had acted in self-defense, and is vindicated in knowing that law enforcement felt the same way after reviewing all of the evidence presented to them.

Terrence looks forward to moving on with his life and focusing his energy on his career and family."

I'm finally glad the charges were dismissed, and I honestly had no doubt T-Will was innocent or defending himself.

I don't defend his actions at all, but from his perspective growing up and experiencing the issues that most of us haven't dealt with; we can't really assume things.

---

Now with Rajon Rondo now going to be out till December, its a coin flip between who will be succeeding or playing in that position.

With the charges dismissed, I know its wishful thinking, but I hope we decide to pick up Terrence Williams. People can say what you want about T-Will, but once his confidence grew, his ability to run the point, play solid defense, and best of all have the lowest assist to turn over ratio in the playoffs really seemed to kick in.

Plus T-Will has good chemistry with the bench players, and had gotten along with most of the players on the team.

Please pick up T-Will. At this point it won't hurt, and who knows? He may shine, and become a great sixth or back up PG.

THAT...is what I am talking about...besides, you can sign him for short money...!!! He is powerful, fast, a good defender, and has slashing skills.....