Cap Question: Stretch Provision

[JSD]

Could a team cut a player with a big salary, use the stretch provision on said player's salary, then resign him?

Case in point: Could the Mavs cut Dirk, stretch his contract to create more space, then resign him to the minimum? This is a pretty tremendous loophole if so.

[saltlover]

Could a team cut a player with a big salary, use the stretch provision on his salary then resign that player?

Case in point: Could the Mavs cut dirk, stretch his contract to create more space then resign him to the minimum?

I obviously think yes (for those looking for background, it's in the "Dallas and Pierce??" thread.)  Certainly you can cut a player and re-sign him.  That happens often enough with replacement-level players who get cut, play in the D-league for a month, and re-signed.

You couldn't have an agreement in place to do this.  So the Mavs would have to cut Dirk, and hope he comes back, while running the risk that once other teams get to call him he decides Dallas isn't that great.  If the league had evidence that you had an agreement in place prior to when your were eligible to re-sign, they would certainly quash that deal.  Otherwise I think it's legit.

As I said in the other thread, there is a limited number of players this would work for, since other team's could put in waiver claims for players they had sufficient cap room or a trade exception to claim.  For example, Orlando has a $17 million dollar trade exception, so they could grab Pierce if we tried it (and they wanted him), but wouldn't have enough room for Dirk's $20 million.  If you did this after July 1st, you would obviously find more teams with cap room, and run greater risk.

[Lucky17]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

Edit: At least, this is true for teams who trade for a player who is subsequently waived, according to Larry Coon:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q63

[Fafnir]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

Not true.

[JSD]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

There it is. Loophole closed... or not?

[JSD]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

Not true.

So if Dirk clears waivers he is free to sign with Dallas?

[Fafnir]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

Not true.

So if Dirk clears waivers he is free to sign with Dallas?

Yes.

If the C's waive Pierce and he clears waivers, he is free to sign back with the C's for example.

However there is blanket rule against gaming the CBA to exceed the salary cap. It is very likely that such a tactic would be quashed by Stern.

Also didn't Dirk sign his deal in the prior CBA when Pierce did? If so is he even stretch eligible?

[saltlover]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

Not true.

So if Dirk clears waivers he is free to sign with Dallas?

Yes.

If the C's waive Pierce and he clears waivers, he is free to sign back with the C's for example.

However there is blanket rule against gaming the CBA to exceed the salary cap. It is very likely that such a tactic would be quashed by Stern.

Also didn't Dirk sign his deal in the prior CBA when Pierce did? If so is he even stretch eligible?

He might not be.  That could be my mistake about the new vs. old cba.  However, I think if he's not stretch eligible, he can renegotiate his salary owed after his release to a different payment schedule, which would essentially have the same effect in lowering his cap cost for the upcoming season.

[Fafnir]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

Not true.

So if Dirk clears waivers he is free to sign with Dallas?

Yes.

If the C's waive Pierce and he clears waivers, he is free to sign back with the C's for example.

However there is blanket rule against gaming the CBA to exceed the salary cap. It is very likely that such a tactic would be quashed by Stern.

Also didn't Dirk sign his deal in the prior CBA when Pierce did? If so is he even stretch eligible?

He might not be.  That could be my mistake about the new vs. old cba.  However, I think if he's not stretch eligible, he can renegotiate his salary owed after his release to a different payment schedule, which would essentially have the same effect in lowering his cap cost for the upcoming season.

No, you can't do that with cap figures. I believe you can negotiate out actual payment schedules though.

[Roy H.]

This unclear, but I think the answer is yes, that player can be re-signed.

Teams have historically bought out players, and re-signed them.  The "stretch" provision is essentially a buyout, or at least the payment schedule.

The only times that I'm aware of where a waived player can't be re-signed are if he's amnestied, or if he's traded to another team and then waived.

[saltlover]

Cutting a player means waiving him.

A team cannot reacquire a player it has waived for at least one year, I believe.

Not true.

So if Dirk clears waivers he is free to sign with Dallas?

Yes.

If the C's waive Pierce and he clears waivers, he is free to sign back with the C's for example.

However there is blanket rule against gaming the CBA to exceed the salary cap. It is very likely that such a tactic would be quashed by Stern.

Also didn't Dirk sign his deal in the prior CBA when Pierce did? If so is he even stretch eligible?

He might not be.  That could be my mistake about the new vs. old cba.  However, I think if he's not stretch eligible, he can renegotiate his salary owed after his release to a different payment schedule, which would essentially have the same effect in lowering his cap cost for the upcoming season.

No, you can't do that with cap figures. I believe you can negotiate out actual payment schedules though.

My mistake.  So you appear to be able to release someone via a stretch position and re-sign to gain cap room in that year, but only if that player signed a contract under the current CBA, since they are otherwise not eligible for the stretch provision.  I've got no idea what Dallas has in mind to keep Dirk and create enough cap room to sign two max players.

[Who]

I've got no idea what Dallas has in mind to keep Dirk and create enough cap room to sign two max players.

I think Cuban must be talking about next summer (2014) when he talks about signing two max players. After Dirk's contract expires and they sign him to a more reasonable deal.

I know when I was reading his interview on ESPN from a month ago that I was confused whether he meant this summer (2013) or next summer (2014). He must mean 2014.

[saltlover]

I've got no idea what Dallas has in mind to keep Dirk and create enough cap room to sign two max players.

I think Cuban must be talking about next summer (2014) when he talks about signing two max players. After Dirk's contract expires and they sign him to a more reasonable deal.

I know when I was reading his interview on ESPN from a month ago that I was confused whether he meant this summer (2013) or next summer (2014). He must mean 2014.

That may be.  Perhaps some of these rumors also started before the most recent cap projection that was lower than expectations by enough money to matter.

[kingtutts]

What about a buyout?  If the C's buyout Pierce before July 1, he gets 5 million and becomes a free agent without C's having Bird rights.  He's free to re-sign with C's for the MLE, Bi-annual, or vets minimum, correct?