Monta Ellis

[D.o.s.]

He's an underrated passer, and he's good at scoring the basketball, but his best year with the We Believe Warriors--after he had that moped accident, he definitely lost some quickness and he started pulling up for those long two's instead of driving to the hoop.


Unfortunately, he's a much better slash-to-the-paint-and-draw-contact player than a jump shooter.

[CFAN38]

Fourth in the league in steals. Clutch.

Steals is the worst stat in basketball. Steals is just a way to show who gambles on defense and who doesn't.

[bfrombleacher]

Did the Bucks win the Bogut trade?

Sure, the Warriors are doing way better but is this due to the emergence of Steph Curry, acquisition of Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry as well as just a bunch of youngn's growing and showing up? Bogut has barely played.

Meanwhile the Bucks got Sanders and Ellis and a bunch of other assets I recall. Once they sort their coach problem out...maybe?

[D.o.s.]

Did the Bucks win the Bogut trade?

Sure, the Warriors are doing way better but is this due to the emergence of Steph Curry, acquisition of Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry as well as just a bunch of youngn's growing and showing up? Bogut has barely played.

Meanwhile the Bucks got Sanders and Ellis and a bunch of other assets I recall. Once they sort their coach problem out...maybe?

I'd say the Bucks won the trade, but if  you account for Ellis and Curry getting out of each other's way than it was certainly a mutually beneficial trade.

Also, the Bucks already had Sanders.

[jambr380]

I feel like his whole career has been defined by a stereotype.

I've tried to back up your point - to an extent. I don't necessarily think he is an all-star; however, there are usually one or two players that make the all-star team each year that make you wonder. Playing in the west certainly hurt his chances. I thought he, Jennings, and Jrue all were toss-ups for the squad this year.

Monta is underrated. Many people just think he is a volume shooter who sucks. He has put up fairly impressive numbers for several years in a row. He is a good player.

[jambr380]

The question was whether or not Monta was overrated - he has never made an all-star team and is one of the least talked about 20 ppg scorers this league has ever seen. He is hardly considered a superstar, but puts up impressive numbers.

I think if you put him on a playoff team with a number of veterans, he would fare very well.

On somewhat related note, Jordan Crawford seems to have that 'it' factor when it comes to scoring. I hope we hold on to him. I have seen him live a couple of times and he never ceases to amaze me. Honestly, the guy has averaged 13 ppg through his first three years in his career and I don't think most people have ever even heard of him.

1. Volume scorers come a dime a dozen.  The fact that Ellis has never made an All Star team is a song that's been sung before and it's totally justified; the guy is a team killer and his numbers are inflated because he's a ball hog.

2.  I think if you put any player on a playoff team with veterans, they would fare well.

3.  Crawford averaged 13 points a game on god-awful teams, where he was the first option by default.  Not saying he can't score well (he can), just saying those numbers are deceiving.

I didn't necessarily say he should be an all-star, but isn't just a crappy volume shooter.

Monta has been asked to do a lot on his teams and he has mostly come to the table. He isn't amazing, but a lot of teams would love to have a scorer like Monta and I think he would settle in nicely to a slightly lesser role [al la Ray Allen - and no, I don't think they are equals].

Crawford was never asked to be the main focus of his offense. He has been on some terrible teams, but that's not his fault. The Celtics are not one of them. His avg is down, but so are his minutes. He can put up points in a hurry, which is something this Celtics team desperately needs.

[BballTim]

The question was whether or not Monta was overrated - he has never made an all-star team and is one of the least talked about 20 ppg scorers this league has ever seen. He is hardly considered a superstar, but puts up impressive numbers.

I think if you put him on a playoff team with a number of veterans, he would fare very well.

On somewhat related note, Jordan Crawford seems to have that 'it' factor when it comes to scoring. I hope we hold on to him. I have seen him live a couple of times and he never ceases to amaze me. Honestly, the guy has averaged 13 ppg through his first three years in his career and I don't think most people have ever even heard of him.

1. Volume scorers come a dime a dozen.  The fact that Ellis has never made an All Star team is a song that's been sung before and it's totally justified; the guy is a team killer and his numbers are inflated because he's a ball hog.

2.  I think if you put any player on a playoff team with veterans, they would fare well.

3.  Crawford averaged 13 points a game on god-awful teams, where he was the first option by default.  Not saying he can't score well (he can), just saying those numbers are deceiving.

I didn't necessarily say he should be an all-star, but isn't just a crappy volume shooter.

  He isn't *just* a crappy volume shooter, but he's still a crappy volume shooter. There have been 39 players who are averaging 17+ ppg over the last 4 years, Ellis is 38th in TS%. In that time there have been 67 times where a player averaged 20+ ppg, Ellis did it 3 times. He has 2 of the 3 lowest TS% and 54th in those 3 years. He's probably the least efficient volume scorer in the league.

[Fan from VT]

Monta is one of the most polarizing players in the NBA.

Drafted very late in the 2nd round - Underrated.

Wildly exceeds those expectations, which then always leads to a massive pendulum swing in the other direction - overrated.

Puts up very good "traditional" total numbers (pts, rbs, assts, stls, blks) - further overrated by "old school" crowd ("he puts the ball in the basket," etc.)

New school crowd comes along, looks deeper. Since his rookie season, he's been averaging close to 40 mpg, which makes his total numbers less impressive. .455/.316/.733 career percentages, so he's not that efficient, which means he's shooting a lot but taking looks away from people who are more efficient at getting the ball in the hole, so he's actually diminishing his team's total points. TS% further backs that up, with one very good year (58%, his 3rd year) and other than that, nothing above 54.5 and usually well below that mark. Except for that one very good year, scoring/shooting wise he's similar to Rondo, who is quite a bad shooter. Ellis just shoots more. This year his TS is tied for 272nd.

Then they look deeper at team stats. His net +/- has been: +2.4, +2.6, -6.2, -11, -0.8, +4.9, +2.7, +2.8.

So there looks like there's a lot of noise there, but it's clear that he does not consistently make his team better when he's on the floor than when he's on the bench. Some years, in fact, the team is way better with him sitting.


I personally think that the average pendulum is probably appropriately swung, since he's either incorrectly regarded as an all-star or incorrectly regarded as useless. I love the JR smith comparison (in terms of impact, not style). He should be a 6th man or 4th best player kind of thing, like Terry in his prime, or stephen jackson's first stint on the spurs, etc. He should not be the focal point of the offense, or an all-star; he has too many holes.

[Monkhouse]

Monta Ellis always reminded me of a whacker version of Kobe. Except whereas Kobe has better defense, is more efficient, and proven through this year clearly has exceptional passing skills. 

Do I think Monta Ellis could be more efficient? Absolutely. But as it stands when he was on GSW, the team was fading in and out of relevance due to his terrible play making, and shot selection.

This is why I never understood why people dislike Josh Smith. Sure J-Smoove makes questionable shots, but hes not a hindrance on the defensive side. Monta can guard, and pass better but he doesn't, and not working on the two aspects of his game is whats hurting his market value, and productivity.

By the way steals are and should never be any evaluation or determination of how good your, "defense," is. Basically as someone said its just someone taking a gamble, which as most people would agree, especially when it comes to Rondo, isn't something that's effective.

[CelticConcourse]

Another ultra-clutch shot tonight,

[CelticConcourse]

Another ultra-clutch shot tonight,

Now that I think about it... tonight's game was like the story of his career. A 38/4/3/2 game, a super clutch three pointer but still in a loss. Sigh.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Monta is very underrated in my opinion, so i disagree with most "overrated" comments. Not a lot of players in the NBA can drop 30 a night. He's also a good passer. Although he is not an efficient shooter and gambles a lot on defense, you got to take that with his strengths to score the ball.

He fits the Westbrook, Rose, Irving and Knicks Jeremy Lin style of play to me in a sense that they are PG's who are score/shoot first (yes Monta is and should be a PG and I dont understand why they keep on making him a 2), only difference is his inefficiency which again, you have to swallow if you take him, but even so, he can score from anywhere on the court, and most times can get hot and just drop buckets. If he lands on a team, like Orlando that needs a scorer, and there's Afflalo who can cover some of his man to man defense ineffectiveness, he'll be really valuable.

Only reason I don't like Monta for us is because we have Rondo, his game won't here as it did not work with Steph with the Dubs. But I feel like defending the man. He's not as bad as people think.

He's also the guy that nobody wants in the CB drafts. That's saying something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nepysk5rOf4

[scaryjerry]

monta Ellis is awful and would never want him near the Celtics