When Will Miami Heat's Winning Streak End?

[mmmmm]

Lebron James IS NOT HUMAN! It's just not fair!

Doesn't help that the refs ignore his fouls and travels, while calling everything that could or does happen to him.

This streak is alive only because of Stern and refs, we had them beat.  He kept them in the game with FTAs.  Standard David Stern keep a game close stuff.

The bolded is BS.

I did object to some of the calls at the end of the first half, but otherwise it was a well called game, especially down the stretch.  We just didn't hit shots and execute.  In fact I thought we got away with a few fouls on LeBron who was getting cracked going to the rim and then they even gave us the ball after it was clearly off Jeff Green on that last possession.

Don't whine.  You don't get refs to get you to this kind of streak.   This is extremely impressive.

I'm not going to claim the refs did or did not help the Heat beat the Celtics or any team in particular.

I'm just going to post the observation that Lebron is averaging just 1.4 PFs per 36 minutes.

That is a number, that defies logic.  It is one of those numbers, given his physical style of play, that is so out there, it is as remarkable as Barry Bond's HR/AB rate.

When Mcguire, Sosa, Bonds were initially chasing Maris' record, we all (me included) were awestruck at how fantastic their feats were.  I remember seeing a video breakdown of McGuire's swing, showing how late he would commit to the swing, with the ball already over the plate, yet his tremendous bat speed still allowed him to catchup and drive it out. Instead of questioning that - I was awestruck.  The numbers these guys posted seemed unbelievable.

As it turns out, they were.

Like Bonds was long before he was suspected of 'using', Lebron is a great player.

But his PF rates are unbelievable.

Jordan had a couple of seasons sub 2 with just under 40 minutes a game in his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain played 48.5 minutes a game in 61-62 and averaged 1.5 fouls a game all while scoring 50.4 points a game and pulling down 25.7 boards a game.  Wilt actually had 3 straight years at around 48 minutes and 1.7 fouls or less per game.

Great defensive players that are so much more athletically gifted then most of their peers don't commit fouls all that often.

Jordan managed to average just under 2 PFs per 36 twice late in his career after the 'Jordan Rules' finally really came into being.   For his career, he averaged a reasonable 2.4 PFs per 36 and early in his career was pretty much league average - right around 3 PFs per 36.   In other words, for all his superior athleticism, Jordan still had to _become_ refined enough in his game (or earn superstar treatment, for the cynical) to reduce his foul rates.   Jordan also was an SG who was a much, much less physical player than Lebron is.

Lebron has been under 2 PFs per 36 every season since he came into the league except once (2007-08, when he averaged exactly 2.0).   So basically what you are saying is that Lebron came into this league already super-well refined at playing defense (or offense) so well that he almost never fouls.   Or, the cynical might say, he came into the league getting superstar treatment.

Wilt's numbers are, like Lebron's almost surreal.   Now, it is hard to necessarily map PF numbers from his era to ours.  Rules have change with the way touch fouls are called and other changes.   Still, it does establish that what Lebron is doing has at last been done once before.

Comparing to Wilt is interesting, but I don't think it puts aside the question.   

Bond's numbers were 'Ruthian' - the Babe had posted similar power ratios for much of his career, even late - thus they were within the bounds of what someone before him might have done (but for a life spent drinking and partying a bit too much).  But that did not make them less unbelievable in hindsight.

I wanted so bad to believe that Lance Armstrong's victories were legit as well.  Again, they weren't THAT far off from what Eddie Merckx achieved (5 TdF victories).

Call me a burned skeptic, but when something seems too good to be true in sports, it probably is.

I watch Lebron play.  He's fantastic.  But he fouls.  Both on offense and defense.  And he doesn't get called on it.  And this happens at least once or twice in every single game.

It's sad.  He'd still be an all-time great without that little advantage.   It just adds a sour taste to what he has accomplished.

[Moranis]

Lebron James IS NOT HUMAN! It's just not fair!

Doesn't help that the refs ignore his fouls and travels, while calling everything that could or does happen to him.

This streak is alive only because of Stern and refs, we had them beat.  He kept them in the game with FTAs.  Standard David Stern keep a game close stuff.

The bolded is BS.

I did object to some of the calls at the end of the first half, but otherwise it was a well called game, especially down the stretch.  We just didn't hit shots and execute.  In fact I thought we got away with a few fouls on LeBron who was getting cracked going to the rim and then they even gave us the ball after it was clearly off Jeff Green on that last possession.

Don't whine.  You don't get refs to get you to this kind of streak.   This is extremely impressive.

I'm not going to claim the refs did or did not help the Heat beat the Celtics or any team in particular.

I'm just going to post the observation that Lebron is averaging just 1.4 PFs per 36 minutes.

That is a number, that defies logic.  It is one of those numbers, given his physical style of play, that is so out there, it is as remarkable as Barry Bond's HR/AB rate.

When Mcguire, Sosa, Bonds were initially chasing Maris' record, we all (me included) were awestruck at how fantastic their feats were.  I remember seeing a video breakdown of McGuire's swing, showing how late he would commit to the swing, with the ball already over the plate, yet his tremendous bat speed still allowed him to catchup and drive it out. Instead of questioning that - I was awestruck.  The numbers these guys posted seemed unbelievable.

As it turns out, they were.

Like Bonds was long before he was suspected of 'using', Lebron is a great player.

But his PF rates are unbelievable.

Jordan had a couple of seasons sub 2 with just under 40 minutes a game in his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain played 48.5 minutes a game in 61-62 and averaged 1.5 fouls a game all while scoring 50.4 points a game and pulling down 25.7 boards a game.  Wilt actually had 3 straight years at around 48 minutes and 1.7 fouls or less per game.

Great defensive players that are so much more athletically gifted then most of their peers don't commit fouls all that often.

Jordan managed to average just under 2 PFs per 36 twice late in his career after the 'Jordan Rules' finally really came into being.   For his career, he averaged a reasonable 2.4 PFs per 36 and early in his career was pretty much league average - right around 3 PFs per 36.   In other words, for all his superior athleticism, Jordan still had to _become_ refined enough in his game (or earn superstar treatment, for the cynical) to reduce his foul rates.   Jordan also was an SG who was a much, much less physical player than Lebron is.

Lebron has been under 2 PFs per 36 every season since he came into the league except once (2007-08, when he averaged exactly 2.0).   So basically what you are saying is that Lebron came into this league already super-well refined at playing defense (or offense) so well that he almost never fouls.   Or, the cynical might say, he came into the league getting superstar treatment.

Wilt's numbers are, like Lebron's almost surreal.   Now, it is hard to necessarily map PF numbers from his era to ours.  Rules have change with the way touch fouls are called and other changes.   Still, it does establish that what Lebron is doing has at last been done once before.

Comparing to Wilt is interesting, but I don't think it puts aside the question.   

Bond's numbers were 'Ruthian' - the Babe had posted similar power ratios for much of his career, even late - thus they were within the bounds of what someone before him might have done (but for a life spent drinking and partying a bit too much).  But that did not make them less unbelievable in hindsight.

I wanted so bad to believe that Lance Armstrong's victories were legit as well.  Again, they weren't THAT far off from what Eddie Merckx achieved (5 TdF victories).

Call me a burned skeptic, but when something seems too good to be true in sports, it probably is.

I watch Lebron play.  He's fantastic.  But he fouls.  Both on offense and defense.  And he doesn't get called on it.  And this happens at least once or twice in every single game.

It's sad.  He'd still be an all-time great without that little advantage.   It just adds a sour taste to what he has accomplished.

But Lebron isn't even the league leader of eligible players with at least 30 minutes a game.  Tayshaun Prince is at 1.6 fouls per 48 minutes.  Lebron is second at 1.9.  Andre Iguodala is 3rd with 2.2 and Durant is 4th at 2.3.  Damian Lillard, Kemba Walker, and DeMar DeRozan are all under 3 fouls per 48.  Russell Westbrook is 8th at 3.1 and 3 players are tied for 9th with 3.2 (Curry, Mayo, and Aldridge).  Some are great defenders, some are not, but by and large they are all either very athletic for their position, very strong for their position, very long for their position, or some combination of those 3 (Lebron is all 3 obviously). 

[fairweatherfan]

I think the Bulls have a shot to hold the Heat to 80 tonight...while scoring 71.

[Chelm]

Lebron James IS NOT HUMAN! It's just not fair!

Doesn't help that the refs ignore his fouls and travels, while calling everything that could or does happen to him.

This streak is alive only because of Stern and refs, we had them beat.  He kept them in the game with FTAs.  Standard David Stern keep a game close stuff.

The bolded is BS.

I did object to some of the calls at the end of the first half, but otherwise it was a well called game, especially down the stretch.  We just didn't hit shots and execute.  In fact I thought we got away with a few fouls on LeBron who was getting cracked going to the rim and then they even gave us the ball after it was clearly off Jeff Green on that last possession.

Don't whine.  You don't get refs to get you to this kind of streak.   This is extremely impressive.

I'm not going to claim the refs did or did not help the Heat beat the Celtics or any team in particular.

I'm just going to post the observation that Lebron is averaging just 1.4 PFs per 36 minutes.

That is a number, that defies logic.  It is one of those numbers, given his physical style of play, that is so out there, it is as remarkable as Barry Bond's HR/AB rate.

When Mcguire, Sosa, Bonds were initially chasing Maris' record, we all (me included) were awestruck at how fantastic their feats were.  I remember seeing a video breakdown of McGuire's swing, showing how late he would commit to the swing, with the ball already over the plate, yet his tremendous bat speed still allowed him to catchup and drive it out. Instead of questioning that - I was awestruck.  The numbers these guys posted seemed unbelievable.

As it turns out, they were.

Like Bonds was long before he was suspected of 'using', Lebron is a great player.

But his PF rates are unbelievable.

Jordan had a couple of seasons sub 2 with just under 40 minutes a game in his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain played 48.5 minutes a game in 61-62 and averaged 1.5 fouls a game all while scoring 50.4 points a game and pulling down 25.7 boards a game.  Wilt actually had 3 straight years at around 48 minutes and 1.7 fouls or less per game.

Great defensive players that are so much more athletically gifted then most of their peers don't commit fouls all that often.

Jordan managed to average just under 2 PFs per 36 twice late in his career after the 'Jordan Rules' finally really came into being.   For his career, he averaged a reasonable 2.4 PFs per 36 and early in his career was pretty much league average - right around 3 PFs per 36.   In other words, for all his superior athleticism, Jordan still had to _become_ refined enough in his game (or earn superstar treatment, for the cynical) to reduce his foul rates.   Jordan also was an SG who was a much, much less physical player than Lebron is.

Lebron has been under 2 PFs per 36 every season since he came into the league except once (2007-08, when he averaged exactly 2.0).   So basically what you are saying is that Lebron came into this league already super-well refined at playing defense (or offense) so well that he almost never fouls.   Or, the cynical might say, he came into the league getting superstar treatment.

Wilt's numbers are, like Lebron's almost surreal.   Now, it is hard to necessarily map PF numbers from his era to ours.  Rules have change with the way touch fouls are called and other changes.   Still, it does establish that what Lebron is doing has at last been done once before.

Comparing to Wilt is interesting, but I don't think it puts aside the question.   

Bond's numbers were 'Ruthian' - the Babe had posted similar power ratios for much of his career, even late - thus they were within the bounds of what someone before him might have done (but for a life spent drinking and partying a bit too much).  But that did not make them less unbelievable in hindsight.

I wanted so bad to believe that Lance Armstrong's victories were legit as well.  Again, they weren't THAT far off from what Eddie Merckx achieved (5 TdF victories).

Call me a burned skeptic, but when something seems too good to be true in sports, it probably is.

I watch Lebron play.  He's fantastic.  But he fouls.  Both on offense and defense.  And he doesn't get called on it.  And this happens at least once or twice in every single game.

It's sad.  He'd still be an all-time great without that little advantage.   It just adds a sour taste to what he has accomplished.

Jordan had to play man defense, whereas Lebron often gets to play safety in a zone.  Not having to play an entire game straight-up guarding the best opposing scorer will impact PF/36 numbers.

Additionally, as pointed out above. Lebron isn't even leading the league in PF/36.  Considering his length/size/athleticism, I wouldn't expect him to be committing fouls at a high rate.