So um, doc just gets a free pass huh?

[badshar]

People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.

What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.

Seriously, use some logic.

Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.

What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?

Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.

so doc is not responsible? he cannot tell PP to not hog the ball? he cannot stop forcing the same plays on JET that he used on RA? He is not at fault for Barbosa not playing? forcing plays? is the coach not supposed to tell the players what he wants to run? Look, it took a third of a season for doc to get his players to attack the basket for close to 48 minutes. doc is not responsible for not posting up green and sully more? wow. just wow.

what is doc responsible for then?

1. Pierce has been ball hogging for a long time. Its not just now. He ball hogs when we win, as well as when we lose. You can't hold Doc responsible for that. Doc is not dumb that he wouldn't tell Pierce to stop hogging. Pierce does it at will, and Doc can't do anything about it. Unless you want Pierce to be benched and then say good bye to hopes of winning.

2. JET is missing simple shots. He misses shots on wide-open looks. Doc is responsible for that? JET is playing out of position and once Bradley returns, JET will go back to his primary position of being a pure scorer off the bench, but Bradley isn't back yet. You want to hold Doc responsible for making sure Bradley is fully ready to come back so he doesn't get injured again?

3. Barbosa has been having family problems, hence he wasn't playing. You want to hold Doc responsible for him having family problems?

4. Its the players job to adapt to the situation and play according to it. If there is 2 seconds left to make a player and you are down three, you are not going to post up, you will take a three.

5. Sullinger doesn't post up because he is undersized, in case you didn't notice. Doc made it pretty clear in the beginning of the season that he would put KG or some tall player next to Sullinger most of the times he is on the court, so he doesn't get outplayed by taller opponents. Sullinger didn't score 16 points by posting up.

6. Green scored 16+ on multiple occasions. Are you saying that Doc told him to score then, and told him not to score now? Its Green who is not scoring, not Doc.

Of course, I can't really say anything if you hold Doc responsible for JET missing wide open shots, or Doc taking precautions for Bradley, or Barbosa having family problems, players adapting to in-game situations, or Sullinger being undersized, or Green not playing consistently.

There is more to it than just holding Doc responsible for every single thing. Of course, I can't argue with you if you will just come back and blame everything on Doc again. If you are, then go cry somewhere else.

One more thing, as someone else said, Doc is one of the major reasons free agents actually want to come here. Lee came here because of Doc. There is a reason Doc Rivers was selected as the coach most players want to play for (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/doc-rivers-coach-players-most-want-to-play-for-stan-van-gundy-not-so-much/). KG signed back because of Doc. We play like a family and have made this team a brotherhood because of Doc. Part of the reason Wilcox and Green wanted to come back here so bad was because of Doc.

Oh, and I am sure you were one of those people last year who were crying about Doc being "awful" and all when they were under .500 last year before the all-star break.

Lastly, if you are going to reply with another short post questioning what I said above and then say "wow. just wow" then you might as well not say anything.

I gave the reasons I needed to. I, and I am sure many others, could care less what you and others like you want to say against Doc.

[blink]

Anyone who wants to fire Doc should first come up with a list of 8 NBA teams who you would be willing to swap head coaches with.

I have yet to see a person in this thread say they want doc fired. I see legit constructive criticisms. Now i think the guy that started the "doc needs to go" thread wanted him gone but he is the ONLY one i can think of.

There have been lots of people in other threads saying that Doc should be fired.  I think that is what the previous poster is referring to.  There have been a number of threads on this topic already.

But that aside, I don't really know what you want then?  Of course everyone in the organization shoulders part of the responsibility that comes with not meeting expectations of the team.  Do you want Doc to come to your house and apologize?  What exactly would = not getting a free pass? 

If you don't want Doc fired and replaced with a new coach what do you want?  You already have the right to complain about Doc every day (and you do). 

[aries31]

  you are blaming DOC for the horrible play of the bench? I wish someone would have told me that doc is the reason bass can't rebound or stop shooting jump shots and go in for an easy dunk as big and athletic as he is! i also wish someone would have told me that doc is also the reason that jeff green plays soft, looks like a dear in headlights most of the time and doesn't look to take a shot or even try to be a leader off the bench.... wow someone who has figured it out DOC is the reason for the short-comings..... ( the guy with a championship ring and easily top 5 best coach in the nba) STOP IT!!!!

[OsirusCeltics]

Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.

Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.

Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.

Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.

Oh so we're gonna forget the 4 titles he won prior?

Phil Jackson has 10+ titles. When his Laker team got swept in 2011 by the Mavs, no one said a word about Phil. You know why? Cause he won 10+ titles

Same reason why no one said anything about Pat Riley when he had a 15-67 record one season when he coached the Heat

Any great coach with alot of achievements is allowed to suck. I bet if Doc won 5 titles, this thread wouldn't have been made. Sorry, just the way things are

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.

What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.

Seriously, use some logic.

Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.

What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?

Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.

so doc is not responsible? he cannot tell PP to not hog the ball? he cannot stop forcing the same plays on JET that he used on RA? He is not at fault for Barbosa not playing? forcing plays? is the coach not supposed to tell the players what he wants to run? Look, it took a third of a season for doc to get his players to attack the basket for close to 48 minutes. doc is not responsible for not posting up green and sully more? wow. just wow.

what is doc responsible for then?

1. Pierce has been ball hogging for a long time. Its not just now. He ball hogs when we win, as well as when we lose. You can't hold Doc responsible for that. Doc is not dumb that he wouldn't tell Pierce to stop hogging. Pierce does it at will, and Doc can't do anything about it. Unless you want Pierce to be benched and then say good bye to hopes of winning.

2. JET is missing simple shots. He misses shots on wide-open looks. Doc is responsible for that? JET is playing out of position and once Bradley returns, JET will go back to his primary position of being a pure scorer off the bench, but Bradley isn't back yet. You want to hold Doc responsible for making sure Bradley is fully ready to come back so he doesn't get injured again?

3. Barbosa has been having family problems, hence he wasn't playing. You want to hold Doc responsible for him having family problems?

4. Its the players job to adapt to the situation and play according to it. If there is 2 seconds left to make a player and you are down three, you are not going to post up, you will take a three.

5. Sullinger doesn't post up because he is undersized, in case you didn't notice. Doc made it pretty clear in the beginning of the season that he would put KG or some tall player next to Sullinger most of the times he is on the court, so he doesn't get outplayed by taller opponents. Sullinger didn't score 16 points by posting up.

6. Green scored 16+ on multiple occasions. Are you saying that Doc told him to score then, and told him not to score now? Its Green who is not scoring, not Doc.

Of course, I can't really say anything if you hold Doc responsible for JET missing wide open shots, or Doc taking precautions for Bradley, or Barbosa having family problems, players adapting to in-game situations, or Sullinger being undersized, or Green not playing consistently.

There is more to it than just holding Doc responsible for every single thing. Of course, I can't argue with you if you will just come back and blame everything on Doc again. If you are, then go cry somewhere else.

One more thing, as someone else said, Doc is one of the major reasons free agents actually want to come here. Lee came here because of Doc. There is a reason Doc Rivers was selected as the coach most players want to play for (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/doc-rivers-coach-players-most-want-to-play-for-stan-van-gundy-not-so-much/). KG signed back because of Doc. We play like a family and have made this team a brotherhood because of Doc. Part of the reason Wilcox and Green wanted to come back here so bad was because of Doc.

Oh, and I am sure you were one of those people last year who were crying about Doc being "awful" and all when they were under .500 last year before the all-star break.

Lastly, if you are going to reply with another short post questioning what I said above and then say "wow. just wow" then you might as well not say anything.

I gave the reasons I needed to. I, and I am sure many others, could care less what you and others like you want to say against Doc.

nope. you could not be more wrong about me.

However, nice dodges i see especially on how he is using JET like RA. you cannot rebutt many questions I posed. You tap danced around them with doublespeak. SO you saying doc has no say so with PP? how is that coaching? DO not tell me sully cannot use his body down low more. I am not the only one saying this. Or green in a mismatch. I'll reply as I please. Not my problem you get mad when constructive criticisms of doc are made and you have no rebuttal.

Last I checked i gave doc credit for attacking the last 2 games win or lose. Did i not? Now using your mindset that is on the players and not doc right?

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.

Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.

Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.

Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.

Oh so we're gonna forget the 4 titles he won prior?

Phil Jackson has 10+ titles. When his Laker team got swept in 2011 by the Mavs, no one said a word about Phil. You know why? Cause he won 10+ titles

Same reason why no one said anything about Pat Riley when he had a 15-67 record one season when he coached the Heat

Any great coach with alot of achievements is allowed to suck. I bet if Doc won 5 titles, this thread wouldn't have been made. Sorry, just the way things are

YUP...well said.

[CelticSooner]

I think Doc should shelter most of the blame for this team's play so far. I feel like he is forcing players to fit into his system instead of tailoring the system around the players. How Jet is being used being a prime example.

[Kane3387]

This is on everyone, but I would say Doc's sense of urgency is greater the the players. I put more of the blame on their poor performance on them then Doc.

Doc can't make Rondo be more aggressive going to the basket and looking to score more.

Doc can't make KG get on the block more.

Doc can't make Jeff Green look to score more.

Doc can't make AB get healthy.

Doc can't make Lee and Terry hit open shots.

Doc can stress these things, point them out when reviewing film, etc. but ultimately these guys have to do it on the court while playing.

[Lightskinsmurf]

Pretty much, yeah. Doc's track record here over the last few years has earned him that.

Um, no, it hasn't. Last 3 years, zero championships. Considering every one of those years was considered a championship or bust year his TRACK RECORD ain't great. Definitely not good enough to completely ignore his coaching decisions this year........can't believe i even have to say that.

Last 3 years, Popovich has zero championships. He should be fired.

Be prepared for disappointment if you are thinking "championship or bust" when you aren't even the best team in the league. You don't fire a coach because fans have unrealistic expectations.

Oh so we're gonna forget the 4 titles he won prior?

Phil Jackson has 10+ titles. When his Laker team got swept in 2011 by the Mavs, no one said a word about Phil. You know why? Cause he won 10+ titles

Same reason why no one said anything about Pat Riley when he had a 15-67 record one season when he coached the Heat

Any great coach with alot of achievements is allowed to suck. I bet if Doc won 5 titles, this thread wouldn't have been made. Sorry, just the way things are

Very very well said and you're right 100percent.

[MBunge]

Doc can't make KG get on the block more.

Doc can't make Jeff Green look to score more.

Doc can't make Lee and Terry hit open shots.

Doc can stress these things, point them out when reviewing film, etc. but ultimately these guys have to do it on the court while playing.

1.  If Boston  is running Doc's very structured half-court offense, Doc can certainly call plays from the bench to get KG and Green the ball in scoring positions.  How many times does it ever look like a play is caled for Green?

2.  Doc is certainly to blame for forcing each player into roles they're not comfortable with and haven't played in the past.

3.  What fuels some of the anti-Doc sentiment is that it seems like a lot of folks assume Doc is doing everything right.  But this season, more than most, has some glaring examples where it was Doc's decision that was bad as much or more than the player's execution.

Mike

[Lightskinsmurf]

Without quoting everything i just read let me touch on a few things. First of all I'm not suggesting firing doc, not now. This thread was made for the guys that like to blame just about everything and everyone but look right over the coach.

Wanna know the HUGE different between doc and pop? First of all lets start with 4 championships to 1. That's a big enough difference all in itself. Now lets get on the fact how pops teams preform well in the regular season most years.

Which means his team is getting homecourt advantage. Which means he is putting his team in a good position come playoff time. Not to mention he plays in a superior conference in my opinion. Phil has a great track record. Pop has a great track record. Doc? He won a championship. I mean, erik spoelstra has a similar track record to doc just over the last two years lol.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Although I would like us to have a better record at this point you have to give Doc a pass. Why you ask? because they had a similar record at this time last year and came together to make a deep playoff run. It's a long season, one in which it's more important to be playing your best at the end than at the beginning.

Everyone forgets that last year was completely skewed because of the strike. Every veteran Celtics player was out of shape, which was the main reason for their awful record at the all star break. They do not have that excuse this year. They have had 28 games and they look worse now than they did earlier in the season. They have lost 5 of their last 7 games and find it hard to beat any team that has a little more than a pulse. This isn't last year.

This. Also, you can't presume that just because something worked last year, it'll work again this year.

[badshar]

People who create these threads need to use their brains a little bit.

What do you want? You wanna fire Doc this year? Go ahead, but then don't cry that the C's didn't win a championship. If Doc leaves mid season this year, that creates a major problem within the team, and all championship hopes go down the drain. Rarely, if ever, do teams win championship the same season that their head coach leaves.

Seriously, use some logic.

Doc is not the only reason this team is playing awful.

What about Jason Terry failing beyond imagination in his shots?
What about Lee doing awful?
What about Bass playing worse than last year?
What about Avery Bradley not playing?
What about Pierce hogging the ball?
What about Rondo taking more jumpshots than usual?
What about Jason Collins playing so awful?
What about us as a team forcing plays again and again when they are clearly not working?
What about Leandro Barbosa not playing?

Seriously, you guys need to use some common sense and some intelligence before create garbage threads like these.

so doc is not responsible? he cannot tell PP to not hog the ball? he cannot stop forcing the same plays on JET that he used on RA? He is not at fault for Barbosa not playing? forcing plays? is the coach not supposed to tell the players what he wants to run? Look, it took a third of a season for doc to get his players to attack the basket for close to 48 minutes. doc is not responsible for not posting up green and sully more? wow. just wow.

what is doc responsible for then?

1. Pierce has been ball hogging for a long time. Its not just now. He ball hogs when we win, as well as when we lose. You can't hold Doc responsible for that. Doc is not dumb that he wouldn't tell Pierce to stop hogging. Pierce does it at will, and Doc can't do anything about it. Unless you want Pierce to be benched and then say good bye to hopes of winning.

2. JET is missing simple shots. He misses shots on wide-open looks. Doc is responsible for that? JET is playing out of position and once Bradley returns, JET will go back to his primary position of being a pure scorer off the bench, but Bradley isn't back yet. You want to hold Doc responsible for making sure Bradley is fully ready to come back so he doesn't get injured again?

3. Barbosa has been having family problems, hence he wasn't playing. You want to hold Doc responsible for him having family problems?

4. Its the players job to adapt to the situation and play according to it. If there is 2 seconds left to make a player and you are down three, you are not going to post up, you will take a three.

5. Sullinger doesn't post up because he is undersized, in case you didn't notice. Doc made it pretty clear in the beginning of the season that he would put KG or some tall player next to Sullinger most of the times he is on the court, so he doesn't get outplayed by taller opponents. Sullinger didn't score 16 points by posting up.

6. Green scored 16+ on multiple occasions. Are you saying that Doc told him to score then, and told him not to score now? Its Green who is not scoring, not Doc.

Of course, I can't really say anything if you hold Doc responsible for JET missing wide open shots, or Doc taking precautions for Bradley, or Barbosa having family problems, players adapting to in-game situations, or Sullinger being undersized, or Green not playing consistently.

There is more to it than just holding Doc responsible for every single thing. Of course, I can't argue with you if you will just come back and blame everything on Doc again. If you are, then go cry somewhere else.

One more thing, as someone else said, Doc is one of the major reasons free agents actually want to come here. Lee came here because of Doc. There is a reason Doc Rivers was selected as the coach most players want to play for (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/19/doc-rivers-coach-players-most-want-to-play-for-stan-van-gundy-not-so-much/). KG signed back because of Doc. We play like a family and have made this team a brotherhood because of Doc. Part of the reason Wilcox and Green wanted to come back here so bad was because of Doc.

Oh, and I am sure you were one of those people last year who were crying about Doc being "awful" and all when they were under .500 last year before the all-star break.

Lastly, if you are going to reply with another short post questioning what I said above and then say "wow. just wow" then you might as well not say anything.

I gave the reasons I needed to. I, and I am sure many others, could care less what you and others like you want to say against Doc.

nope. you could not be more wrong about me.

However, nice dodges i see especially on how he is using JET like RA. you cannot rebutt many questions I posed. You tap danced around them with doublespeak. SO you saying doc has no say so with PP? how is that coaching? DO not tell me sully cannot use his body down low more. I am not the only one saying this. Or green in a mismatch. I'll reply as I please. Not my problem you get mad when constructive criticisms of doc are made and you have no rebuttal.

Last I checked i gave doc credit for attacking the last 2 games win or lose. Did i not? Now using your mindset that is on the players and not doc right?

Uhh, first, I didn't try to "tap dance" around any questions. Second, I am not online on this forum 24/7, nor do I have the time to write an in-depth analysis that answers each of your questions 100%. Third, I don't know what made you think I was mad, but ok. Fourth, I don't think Sully posting up is beneficial to us, regardless of whether he can do it or not.

Lastly, I never talked anything about Doc using JET like RA. You brought that up, so I didn't really "dodge" it.

If Doc was at fault for Green not performing well, then Green wouldn't have had multiple games with 16+ points. You are being delusional by blaming Doc for that.

One more thing, as for Pierce ball-hogging, Kobe ball hogs too. So does Westbrook. Carmelo does it too. So does Rudy Gay. James Harden does it occasionally. Vince Carter also does it. Should all coaches be fired for that?

[jdz101]

I will say that someone like pop would find a way to make guys like Jeff green and Courtney lee fill roles perfectly and be pretty successful players. He has done it with less talent.

Not a knock on doc though, he just wants players to play his way or the highway. And his way works when people eventually get it.