Looks like PP may be the next to take the pilgrimage to Houston

[BballTim]

People, as much as I want to give McHale his props ... be honest, he didn't really create his own shot. He was a part of Bird's overall system.

  This isn't true at all. The team would frequently dump the ball into McHale even though he was closely covered and Kevin would find a way to get a shot off.

[TitleMaster]

People, as much as I want to give McHale his props ... be honest, he didn't really create his own shot. He was a part of Bird's overall system.

  This isn't true at all. The team would frequently dump the ball into McHale even though he was closely covered and Kevin would find a way to get a shot off.

Let me re-phrase my mistake ... when McHale was not in his pivot/swing space [in the low post], he didn't really create his shot.  But sure, when he's on the block with his back to the basket, he could make things happen, but then, could everyone afford to throw their best defenders on him, with Bird & Co on the loose?

In Hakeem's case, it's better for the opposing teams' defenders to throw the kitchen sink at Olajuwon because for the most part, his other teammates were mainly effective when they were open. Thus, on a team with Olajuwon ('92 health-wise) /Bird ('86 health-wise), a complete inside-out all star duo, the Celts would only need a guy like Parish or Walton off the bench along with DJ, Ainge, Sichting, and Wedman as role players. Olajuwon's presence down low would in effect, make Bird 99% unstoppable in every way.

[Django]

I use to think McHale was a better low post player than Hakeem until I saw his destruction of David Robinson. It was 

McHale is still amazing. But Hakeem was just devastating when he was in the zone.

[Ogaju]

You can blame that on the NBA for giving the MVP to David Robinson, and then presenting him the trophy in front of Hakeem. I think it p---ed off Hakeem.

[TitleMaster]

I use to think McHale was a better low post player than Hakeem until I saw his destruction of David Robinson. It was 

McHale is still amazing. But Hakeem was just devastating when he was in the zone.

Now, just imagine that same 1990s angry Olajuwon, side-by-side with Bird during the 80s. Basically, that 80s Celtics would have three completely open shooters on the floor not named Bird or Dream.

The only defense against this team is to play 5 on 2 and hope to the stars that Wedman, DJ, Parish, and Ainge lay bricks the entire game.

I think we would have won both in '85 and '87, a quattro-peat.

[BballTim]

People, as much as I want to give McHale his props ... be honest, he didn't really create his own shot. He was a part of Bird's overall system.

  This isn't true at all. The team would frequently dump the ball into McHale even though he was closely covered and Kevin would find a way to get a shot off.

Let me re-phrase my mistake ... when McHale was not in his pivot/swing space [in the low post], he didn't really create his shot.

  Did he take people off of the dribble from the outside? No.

But sure, when he's on the block with his back to the basket, he could make things happen, but then, could everyone afford to throw their best defenders on him, with Bird & Co on the loose?

  The type of player that would guard McHale wouldn't be able to keep up with Bird on the perimeter. They'd obviously put their best low post defender on Kevin.

In Hakeem's case, it's better for the opposing teams' defenders to throw the kitchen sink at Olajuwon because for the most part, his other teammates were mainly effective when they were open. Thus, on a team with Olajuwon ('92 health-wise) /Bird ('86 health-wise), a complete inside-out all star duo, the Celts would only need a guy like Parish or Walton off the bench along with DJ, Ainge, Sichting, and Wedman as role players. Olajuwon's presence down low would in effect, make Bird 99% unstoppable in every way.

  I'm not sure what the point of this is. People were discussing whether McHale or Hakeem had better (or a wider array of) low post moves. You seem to be discussing which was the better player.

[TitleMaster]

I'm not sure what the point of this is. People were discussing whether McHale or Hakeem had better (or a wider array of) low post moves. You seem to be discussing which was the better player.

I think the point has something to do with overall effectiveness, as a low post player, rather than the number of post moves in total. So while McHale, in his basic 9-12 foot sweet spots, have a wide spectrum of moves, how much variance does that really offer? Remember Hakeem's ability to spin out, generate separation, and shoot from all spaces, 12 ft, 15 ft, 18 ft, etc, makes his general post game more effective because it's not like he turns into an ordinary perimeter player, while making adjustments to the defenses down low.

[BballTim]

I'm not sure what the point of this is. People were discussing whether McHale or Hakeem had better (or a wider array of) low post moves. You seem to be discussing which was the better player.

I think the point has something to do with overall effectiveness, as a low post player, rather than the number of post moves in total. So while McHale, in his basic 9-12 foot sweet spots, have a wide spectrum of moves, how much variance does that really offer? Remember Hakeem's ability to spin out, generate separation, and shoot from all spaces, 12 ft, 15 ft, 18 ft, etc, makes his general post game more effective because it's not like he turns into an ordinary perimeter player, while making adjustments to the defenses down low.

  McHale had a career fg% of .554, Hakeem was .512. Kevin played in the league for 13 years, in 9 of them he had a higher fg% than Hakeem's best season. I think being able to put the ball in the basket more often has a lot to do with overall effectiveness as a post player as well.

  And, again, the discussion started from whether McHale or Hakeem would be a better teacher for low post players, so beyond effectiveness in the low post, the number of low post moves is somewhat important to the conversation.