New Pipe Dreams (Adjusted post deadline failure)

[LarBrd33]

Ainge couldn't get a late 1st rounder for either Pierce or Ray.  He couldn't give up a late 1st rounder for any big men help.  It is what it is.  We stood pat and will likely pay the price in both the short term and long term.

Short term pipe dream:  Chris Kaman or bust.  All of our hope rests on the unlikely scenario that Kaman will be bought out... and then pick us over teams like the Heat.  With him... we might push to the 6th seed and have a shot of making the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Without him, we're probably swept by the Heat/Bulls in round 1.   You might remember this scenario as it was called last year:  "Shaq or Bust".   Basically all of our big men hope last year rested on Shaq returning from injury.  I say the odds are just about even.


Long term pipe dream:   Deron didn't get traded and the Nets didn't land Howard.  He MIGHT not stick around in Brooklyn.  He'll be an unrestricted free agent unless he decides to sign some kind of extension between now and the summer.   Celtics will need to renounce KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass ... then offer the max to Deron Williams (starting salary of 19 million).  Obviously, you then sell Rondo to the highest bidder... for a Josh Smith/Big Al (or something).  You'll have Deron, Josh Smith/Big Al (or something), 35 year old Pierce... and 6 million in cap space.  Use that 6 million wisely... you don't want to spend it all at once.  You probably can pick between KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass and decide to bring one of them back, though.  I'd chose Jeff Green personally due to his age and ability.  You'll also have two first round picks (our own and the clippers) to play with.  Leaving us with the following roster next year:  

PG - Deron
SG - Pierce
SF - Jeff Green
PF - Josh Smith/Big Al (or something)
C - Draft Pick 1

Bench:  

Bradley, Draft Pick 2, Johnson


It's a pipe dream.

[MBunge]

Yeah, 'cause a team with one of the best PGs in the game, 2 1st round picks in a loaded draft, a still productive veteran in Pierce and plenty of cap space is in a terrible situation.

Mike

[LarBrd33]

Yeah, 'cause a team with one of the best PGs in the game, 2 1st round picks in a loaded draft, a still productive veteran in Pierce and plenty of cap space is in a terrible situation.

Mike

In context, yes.

There are about a dozen teams in better position for the future.

[dmny5000]

Ainge couldn't get a late 1st rounder for either Pierce or Ray.  He couldn't give up a late 1st rounder for any big men help.  It is what it is.  We stood pat and will likely pay the price in both the short term and long term.

Short term pipe dream:  Chris Kaman or bust.  All of our hope rests on the unlikely scenario that Kaman will be bought out... and then pick us over teams like the Heat.  With him... we might push to the 6th seed and have a shot of making the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Without him, we're probably swept by the Heat/Bulls in round 1.   You might remember this scenario as it was called last year:  "Shaq or Bust".   Basically all of our big men hope last year rested on Shaq returning from injury.  I say the odds are just about even.


Long term pipe dream:   Deron didn't get traded and the Nets didn't land Howard.  He MIGHT not stick around in Brooklyn.  He'll be an unrestricted free agent unless he decides to sign some kind of extension between now and the summer.   Celtics will need to renounce KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass ... then offer the max to Deron Williams (starting salary of 19 million).  Obviously, you then sell Rondo to the highest bidder... for a Josh Smith/Big Al (or something).  You'll have Deron, Josh Smith/Big Al (or something), 35 year old Pierce... and 6 million in cap space.  Use that 6 million wisely... you don't want to spend it all at once.  You probably can pick between KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass and decide to bring one of them back, though.  I'd chose Jeff Green personally due to his age and ability.  You'll also have two first round picks (our own and the clippers) to play with.  Leaving us with the following roster next year:  

PG - Deron
SG - Pierce
SF - Jeff Green
PF - Josh Smith/Big Al (or something)
C - Draft Pick 1

Bench:  

Bradley, Draft Pick 2, Johnson


It's a pipe dream.

Just to correct that, there were offers of first round picks for both players. The problem is that Danny wanted a young talented player AND a first for Ray and teams were only offering one or the other. As for Paul he wanted to trade him for an expiring AND a 1st. He couldn't get both there either. He kind of blew it on Ray though I think since now you get nothing for him.

I think both pipe dream scenarios are just that pipe dreams haha. Kaman is very unlikely to come here IF he gets bought out which I'm not sure he will.

There's so many different pieces of the long term plan that maybe a piece or two will happen. If that all happens though then I would like to hire you to help me pick stocks haha.

I'm not in a very bad mood about it, I wanted a small trade for a big but it doesn't affect my outlook as a whole. The Celtics can compete this year and the future looks promising as well. Lots of assets and cap room. I'm not worried.

[Greenbean]

Yeah, 'cause a team with one of the best PGs in the game, 2 1st round picks in a loaded draft, a still productive veteran in Pierce and plenty of cap space is in a terrible situation.

Mike

In context, yes.

There are about a dozen teams in better position for the future.

But are you warming to the fact that maybe there wasnt a deal out there that could help us for the future?

[Greenbean]

Ainge couldn't get a late 1st rounder for either Pierce or Ray.  He couldn't give up a late 1st rounder for any big men help.  It is what it is.  We stood pat and will likely pay the price in both the short term and long term.

Short term pipe dream:  Chris Kaman or bust.  All of our hope rests on the unlikely scenario that Kaman will be bought out... and then pick us over teams like the Heat.  With him... we might push to the 6th seed and have a shot of making the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Without him, we're probably swept by the Heat/Bulls in round 1.   You might remember this scenario as it was called last year:  "Shaq or Bust".   Basically all of our big men hope last year rested on Shaq returning from injury.  I say the odds are just about even.


Long term pipe dream:   Deron didn't get traded and the Nets didn't land Howard.  He MIGHT not stick around in Brooklyn.  He'll be an unrestricted free agent unless he decides to sign some kind of extension between now and the summer.   Celtics will need to renounce KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass ... then offer the max to Deron Williams (starting salary of 19 million).  Obviously, you then sell Rondo to the highest bidder... for a Josh Smith/Big Al (or something).  You'll have Deron, Josh Smith/Big Al (or something), 35 year old Pierce... and 6 million in cap space.  Use that 6 million wisely... you don't want to spend it all at once.  You probably can pick between KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass and decide to bring one of them back, though.  I'd chose Jeff Green personally due to his age and ability.  You'll also have two first round picks (our own and the clippers) to play with.  Leaving us with the following roster next year:  

PG - Deron
SG - Pierce
SF - Jeff Green
PF - Josh Smith/Big Al (or something)
C - Draft Pick 1

Bench:  

Bradley, Draft Pick 2, Johnson


It's a pipe dream.

Just to correct that, there were offers of first round picks for both players. The problem is that Danny wanted a young talented player AND a first for Ray and teams were only offering one or the other. As for Paul he wanted to trade him for an expiring AND a 1st. He couldn't get both there either. He kind of blew it on Ray though I think since now you get nothing for him.

I think both pipe dream scenarios are just that pipe dreams haha. Kaman is very unlikely to come here IF he gets bought out which I'm not sure he will.

There's so many different pieces of the long term plan that maybe a piece or two will happen. If that all happens though then I would like to hire you to help me pick stocks haha.

I'm not in a very bad mood about it, I wanted a small trade for a big but it doesn't affect my outlook as a whole. The Celtics can compete this year and the future looks promising as well. Lots of assets and cap room. I'm not worried.

Where is the report that Ray was ever going to fetch a first rounder or a young asset without taking on any salary beyond this year?

[Donoghus]

Yeah, 'cause a team with one of the best PGs in the game, 2 1st round picks in a loaded draft, a still productive veteran in Pierce and plenty of cap space is in a terrible situation.

Mike

In context, yes.

There are about a dozen teams in better position for the future.

Alright, name them.

[snively]

I think Diaw will get some consideration as a back-up big should Charlotte buy him out.  Personally, I'd prefer him to Kaman.  More mobile, more versatile, less of a walking injury risk.  Sure he does nothing to address our rebounding woes, but I think he fits better into the speed/skill shift Doc has been implementing post JO.

[KG_ended_Bias]

Ainge couldn't get a late 1st rounder for either Pierce or Ray.  He couldn't give up a late 1st rounder for any big men help.  It is what it is.  We stood pat and will likely pay the price in both the short term and long term.

Short term pipe dream:  Chris Kaman or bust.  All of our hope rests on the unlikely scenario that Kaman will be bought out... and then pick us over teams like the Heat.  With him... we might push to the 6th seed and have a shot of making the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Without him, we're probably swept by the Heat/Bulls in round 1.   You might remember this scenario as it was called last year:  "Shaq or Bust".   Basically all of our big men hope last year rested on Shaq returning from injury.  I say the odds are just about even.


Long term pipe dream:   Deron didn't get traded and the Nets didn't land Howard.  He MIGHT not stick around in Brooklyn.  He'll be an unrestricted free agent unless he decides to sign some kind of extension between now and the summer.   Celtics will need to renounce KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass ... then offer the max to Deron Williams (starting salary of 19 million).  Obviously, you then sell Rondo to the highest bidder... for a Josh Smith/Big Al (or something).  You'll have Deron, Josh Smith/Big Al (or something), 35 year old Pierce... and 6 million in cap space.  Use that 6 million wisely... you don't want to spend it all at once.  You probably can pick between KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass and decide to bring one of them back, though.  I'd chose Jeff Green personally due to his age and ability.  You'll also have two first round picks (our own and the clippers) to play with.  Leaving us with the following roster next year:  

PG - Deron
SG - Pierce
SF - Jeff Green
PF - Josh Smith/Big Al (or something)
C - Draft Pick 1

Bench:  

Bradley, Draft Pick 2, Johnson


It's a pipe dream.

I like it better with Rondo & Josh Smith/Big Al along with & chance hope of Greg Oden for the full MLE. I think Greg Oden becomes our #1 off season prospect/project target. He should have been a Celtic to begin with so maybe it's basketball fate working itself out!

[Mr Rondo]

Ainge couldn't get a late 1st rounder for either Pierce or Ray.  He couldn't give up a late 1st rounder for any big men help.  It is what it is.  We stood pat and will likely pay the price in both the short term and long term.

Short term pipe dream:  Chris Kaman or bust.  All of our hope rests on the unlikely scenario that Kaman will be bought out... and then pick us over teams like the Heat.  With him... we might push to the 6th seed and have a shot of making the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Without him, we're probably swept by the Heat/Bulls in round 1.   You might remember this scenario as it was called last year:  "Shaq or Bust".   Basically all of our big men hope last year rested on Shaq returning from injury.  I say the odds are just about even.


Long term pipe dream:   Deron didn't get traded and the Nets didn't land Howard.  He MIGHT not stick around in Brooklyn.  He'll be an unrestricted free agent unless he decides to sign some kind of extension between now and the summer.   Celtics will need to renounce KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass ... then offer the max to Deron Williams (starting salary of 19 million).  Obviously, you then sell Rondo to the highest bidder... for a Josh Smith/Big Al (or something).  You'll have Deron, Josh Smith/Big Al (or something), 35 year old Pierce... and 6 million in cap space.  Use that 6 million wisely... you don't want to spend it all at once.  You probably can pick between KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass and decide to bring one of them back, though.  I'd chose Jeff Green personally due to his age and ability.  You'll also have two first round picks (our own and the clippers) to play with.  Leaving us with the following roster next year:  

PG - Deron
SG - Pierce
SF - Jeff Green
PF - Josh Smith/Big Al (or something)
C - Draft Pick 1

Bench:  

Bradley, Draft Pick 2, Johnson


It's a pipe dream.

I would rather not sign Deron. The ideal dream would be to tank next season and obtain a high draft pick while still clearing room for cap space. The following season, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith come off the books and unite with Rondo in Boston  . Our defense would be amazing, however our free throw shooting and jump shooting would be seriously lacking 

[LarBrd33]

Yeah, 'cause a team with one of the best PGs in the game, 2 1st round picks in a loaded draft, a still productive veteran in Pierce and plenty of cap space is in a terrible situation.

Mike

In context, yes.

There are about a dozen teams in better position for the future.

Alright, name them.

Already stated my opinion on this a few weeks ago in another thread... and that was before Golden State pulled off the heist of Bogut + 1st rounder for the overrated ballhog Monta Ellis.   Here's my full-length rant:

Here's the sad and depressing reality of our situation...

I have to preface this by saying ... this isn't for those of you delusional folks who incorrectly believe this bunch can win a title.  This is for people who aren't living in a fantasy land:

We would gladly swap situations with AT LEAST a dozen teams in this league. 

I'd gladly take David Lee, future phenom Steph Curry and Monta Ellis (who I'd trade) over what we're looking at in 2013.  I'd have 15 years to build around Curry... I'd gladly swap situations with Golden State.

Are you telling me you wouldn't rather have Utah's roster right now?  Favors and Kanter are future stars and are both 19 ... Hayward is 21 years old... Al Jefferson and Millisap are extremely tradeable (both are 27)... They currently look like they will have the 11th and 13th picks in a LOADED draft.  That team is UNQUESTIONABLY closer to winning a title than this team.

Are you telling me you wouldn't swap places with the Nets?  Deron is ON the team(top 2 point guard)... Brooks looks great.  Brook Lopez is better than any big we have on our roster post-KG (btw ... find me a fool who honestly wouldn't trade KG for Lopez RIGHT NOW)... Humphries puts up solid numbers is an excellent asset... not to mention they have the 4th best odds of winning a loaded lotto right now and they are at the top of Dwight HOward's wish list.  Be honest with yourselves... you'd swap places with them in a nanosecond.  Even their worst case scenario (trading Deron now for bare minimum Rondo, while still having a boatload of young players and a #4 pick) looks more promising than our best-case scenario.  Fact:  The Nets are closer to winning a title than the Celtics.

It goes without saying that the Timberwolves are closer to winning a title than the Celtics.  Give me a break.  Rubio and Rondo is a wash... but tell me who we are going to get with our 25 mil in cap room that is comparable to Kevin Love.  Then you have Pekovic who is far and away better than any non-KG big man on this roster, Derrick Williams (#2 pick last year ... HUGE trade value) players like Randolph and Beasley (who if they played in boston would instantly be our most intriguing young prospects and be hailed as the next *insert Celtic Legend*)... Doubt there is a single rational person on this forum who wouldnt' trade our Roster for the Wolves.

Tell me you seriously wouldn't swap positions with the Hornets right now.  Eric Gordon is a young star shooter, they have mountains of cap space and the 2nd best odds of landing Anthony Davis.  I'd gladly swap franchises with the Hornets (and as someone living in Seattle, I'm actively rooting for them to become the Sonics).  The Hornets are closer to winning a title than the Celtics.


It gets worse, though.  Take a look at a bottomfeeder team like the Detroit Pistons.  This is a team that unquestionably had more success than our 3 year contender...  They managed to stay contenders for 7 years, won the title once, made it to the finals a 2nd time and made it to the Eastern Conference Finals 4 of those other years.  They also have a 4 year head-start on rebuilding.  Right now in our situation we're about where the PIstons were in 2008.  Tell me you wouldn't rather have 21 year old BEAST Earl Monroe (averaging 16 and 10) and the 6th best odds of winning this lotto than 26 year old Rondo and what's left of Paul Pierce.  The Detroit Pistons are closer to winning a title than we are.

We are in for a long haul and we don't have much as far as assets right now.  Most people want us to just play out this season, watch KG, Ray and Pierce gracefully retire as Celtics... maybe make a couple more late seed playoff appearances in the process.  We're basically prolonging our misery by doing so.  If you want 3 more years of this garbage, then that's 3 more years you have to wait for a chance to add a Greg Monroe... and by the time that finally happens Rondo will be pushing 30.

And then my follow-up post when someone argued that we were in a better position than the Warriors:

Just on that point.  I don't like Ellis at all.  I agree with you on Ellis.  But he's a 26 year old guard who gives you 24 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds and a couple steals a night.  He's got as much trade value as ANYONE on the Celtics.  Let it sink it.

Steph Curry is phenomenal... unfortunately he plays with Ellis.  While Ellis is jacking up 20 shots a night, 23 year old Curry (still on his rookie contract btw) is stuck with 13.  From the outside this wouldn't seem like a big deal... until you realize that Curry is a top 4 shooter in this league (up there with Nash, Durant and Ray) and shoots 48%... a RIDICULOUS 45% from three (while knocking down 2.5 a night) and 90% from the line.   Sorry you're not sold on Curry... there's a clear reason why Golden State will be trading Ellis prior to the deadline and it's because of Curry.  Curry has so much value right now that the Warriors passed on trading him for Chris Paul.  Let that one sink in too.

Lastly... David Lee.  Maybe not that impressive to you... but he's a 20 and 10 guy (50% shooter) on two different teams now... he's 28 years old... and he makes 13-15 mil over the next few years.   God bless you, if you if you think the Celtics are going to find a 28 year old 20 and 10 guy this offseason for 13-15 mil.  That's adorable.  If David Lee played in Boston we'd be seeing comparisons on this forum to Dave Cowens within his first two games.  Let that one sink in.

It's also fair to mention that they DON'T HAVE A SINGLE PLAYER ON THEIR TEAM OVER 30.  Their roster is littered with young guys who if they played in Boston we'd be hearing daily comparisons to (insert former Celtic legend here).

Guys like Udoh who was the 6th pick two years ago and guys like Klay Thompson who was the 11th pick this year.  They all have trade value.  Even Wright and Rush (26 years old and capable) have value.  This is the kind of squad that Danny Ainge converted into an aging contender in 2008...

"Why you brought that sorry sack of losers up I don't know."... I bring them up for exactly that reason.  They are a random sack of losers... and I'd gladly trade places with them in a nanosecond.  We have very little positive on our squad.  I'd take Curry over Rondo without hesitation... and if you think you're getting an Ellis-level player, a Lee-level player and boatloads of young prospects this offseason to fit around Rondo you're absolutely kidding yourself.

Golden State is far closer to a title than our team is.  That's not to say they will win a title (nor is it to say we will)... it's just to say that they are years ahead of us in rebuilding and thus... closer to a title.

That's just one team.  There's at least a dozen other random "sorry sack of losers" that I (and surely Ainge) would gladly trade this roster for.  That doesn't take away from what we accomplished during our 3 year run.  We won a title.  We made sacrifices.  It's over now, though... and it's time to start the lengthy rebuild.

5 years MINIMUM... maximum of NEVER.

Stuff has changed since that post... like Nets dumping their pick for Wallace, Rubio getting injured, Golden State landing a legit center for Ellis, etc... still I stand by my points. 

[LarBrd33]

Ainge couldn't get a late 1st rounder for either Pierce or Ray.  He couldn't give up a late 1st rounder for any big men help.  It is what it is.  We stood pat and will likely pay the price in both the short term and long term.

Short term pipe dream:  Chris Kaman or bust.  All of our hope rests on the unlikely scenario that Kaman will be bought out... and then pick us over teams like the Heat.  With him... we might push to the 6th seed and have a shot of making the 2nd round of the playoffs.  Without him, we're probably swept by the Heat/Bulls in round 1.   You might remember this scenario as it was called last year:  "Shaq or Bust".   Basically all of our big men hope last year rested on Shaq returning from injury.  I say the odds are just about even.


Long term pipe dream:   Deron didn't get traded and the Nets didn't land Howard.  He MIGHT not stick around in Brooklyn.  He'll be an unrestricted free agent unless he decides to sign some kind of extension between now and the summer.   Celtics will need to renounce KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass ... then offer the max to Deron Williams (starting salary of 19 million).  Obviously, you then sell Rondo to the highest bidder... for a Josh Smith/Big Al (or something).  You'll have Deron, Josh Smith/Big Al (or something), 35 year old Pierce... and 6 million in cap space.  Use that 6 million wisely... you don't want to spend it all at once.  You probably can pick between KG, Ray, Jeff Green and Bass and decide to bring one of them back, though.  I'd chose Jeff Green personally due to his age and ability.  You'll also have two first round picks (our own and the clippers) to play with.  Leaving us with the following roster next year:  

PG - Deron
SG - Pierce
SF - Jeff Green
PF - Josh Smith/Big Al (or something)
C - Draft Pick 1

Bench:  

Bradley, Draft Pick 2, Johnson


It's a pipe dream.

I like it better with Rondo & Josh Smith/Big Al along with & chance hope of Greg Oden for the full MLE. I think Greg Oden becomes our #1 off season prospect/project target. He should have been a Celtic to begin with so maybe it's basketball fate working itself out!

I'm with you on Oden.  MIght as well.  It'd be comical.  Sign him for 5 million, bring KG and Ray back for 10 million each (1 year deals) and call it an offseason.  Oden probably will never play for us, but it will still be funny.

[OhioGreen]

Next year we'll have the same crap we have this year, only a year even older, plus two new hyped rookies who never see the court!
Only good thing will be JJJ and ET will probably get to play 5/6 minutes a game next year WHEN THEY'VE EARNED IT!

[Cap!]

We are a 1.5 games out of 5th Place right now without Kaman. (.5 out of 6th!). If we continue to find ways to win on the road, I hink this team could finish as high as 4th. Kaman would be nice, but there are other serviceable big men who might be available. We're just looking for some meaningful minutes folks, sp let's not panic if kaman is not available.

[MBunge]

Stuff has changed since that post... like Nets dumping their pick for Wallace, Rubio getting injured, Golden State landing a legit center for Ellis, etc... still I stand by my points. 

Good grief.

Yes, if you ignore every negative with a player or a roster, every history of bad decision-making by a franchise, you can make ANY team seem like the best thing since sliced bread.

I mean, the Nets just gave up possibly the 4th pick in the draft for Gerald Wallace and DWill might walk away and leave them with nothing after this season.  THAT'S a team the Celtics are supposed to envy?  The Pistons stink because Joe Dumars has made one bad move after another since dafting Darko, but THAT'S the franchise the Celtics are supposed to emulate?  The Hornets are a disaster area, but THAT'S who we should be crying into our pillows over?  Utah's never won a championship, is currently out of the playoffs and has a worse record than this Boston team...but THAT'S your example of someone better off than we are?

Are you doing some sort of Stephen Colbert-type parody of unreasonable and shortsighted sports fans?

Mike