Brady & Bird Both 3-2 in Championship Round

[Redz]

Perfection is a hard standard to maintain.  The start of Brady's career was so ridiculously supreme (he won 3 championships before he ever lost a game).  As much as I worshiped Larry Bird growing up he suffered through his share of bitter playoff losses.  With this years Super Bowl loss Brady and Bird now stand side by side in the pantheon of Boston Sports legends on the biggest stage.  Both appeared in the Finals of their league 5 times and won it 3 (obviously Brady has a chance for more yet).

They are both worthy of mention as the greatest ever in their sports.  Brady has no competition as the all time great of his team, whereas Bird has no shortage of legends in good company as a Celtic.

After the starts of their careers it seemed that both Bird and Brady would never know much disappointment.  Alas they are human.

To me, the legendary championship level performance of guys like Jordan, Russell, and Montana put them a notch above Bird and Brady on the "legend scale". 

Bird had the Lakers to drag him down and Brady has the Giants (no Show Time I'll grant you).

Many areas never get a Brady or a Bird to root for.  We are truly blessed by all of the great players we've had to watch wear our local laundry.

[Cman]

Perfection is a hard standard to maintain.  The start of Brady's career was so ridiculously supreme (he won 3 championships before he ever lost a game).  As much as I worshiped Larry Bird growing up he suffered through his share of bitter playoff losses.  With this years Super Bowl loss Brady and Bird now stand side by side in the pantheon of Boston Sports legends on the biggest stage.  Both appeared in the Finals of their league 5 times and won it 3 (obviously Brady has a chance for more yet).

They are both worthy of mention as the greatest ever in their sports.  Brady has no competition as the all time great of his team, whereas Bird has no shortage of legends in good company as a Celtic.

After the starts of their careers it seemed that both Bird and Brady would never know much disappointment.  Alas they are human.

To me, the legendary championship level performance of guys like Jordan, Russell, and Montana put them a notch above Bird and Brady on the "legend scale". 

Bird had the Lakers to drag him down and Brady has the Giants (no Show Time I'll grant you).

Many areas never get a Brady or a Bird to root for.  We are truly blessed by all of the great players we've had to watch wear our local laundry.

Redz, this is a great post. Thanks.

[Redz]

Perfection is a hard standard to maintain.  The start of Brady's career was so ridiculously supreme (he won 3 championships before he ever lost a game).  As much as I worshiped Larry Bird growing up he suffered through his share of bitter playoff losses.  With this years Super Bowl loss Brady and Bird now stand side by side in the pantheon of Boston Sports legends on the biggest stage.  Both appeared in the Finals of their league 5 times and won it 3 (obviously Brady has a chance for more yet).

They are both worthy of mention as the greatest ever in their sports.  Brady has no competition as the all time great of his team, whereas Bird has no shortage of legends in good company as a Celtic.

After the starts of their careers it seemed that both Bird and Brady would never know much disappointment.  Alas they are human.

To me, the legendary championship level performance of guys like Jordan, Russell, and Montana put them a notch above Bird and Brady on the "legend scale". 

Bird had the Lakers to drag him down and Brady has the Giants (no Show Time I'll grant you).

Many areas never get a Brady or a Bird to root for.  We are truly blessed by all of the great players we've had to watch wear our local laundry.

Redz, this is a great post. Thanks.

thanks 

[Roy H.]

Very nice post, although as you acknowledge, Giants ≠ Lakers.  One was a legitimately great dynasty, and the other is a good but not great team.

[birdbrady]

Come on, man.  80s NBA might be the most competitive a league has ever been in sports.  The teams then were nasty.

Bird's two championship losses were against the '85 Lakers and '87 Lakers.  If you ask a Lakers fan, they'd put the '87 Lakers as the best team ever, and the '85 team in the top 5, (ok if you ask a Laker fan, all 11 of their championships in LA were the 11 best teams in basketball history.)  But seriously, the 85 and 87 Lakers were two of the best ever.  87 Lakers are no lower than 3, (86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, 96 Bulls in any order), and the 85 Lakers are in the top 7, and NO LOWER than 10.

The Giants in 07 were junk.  10-6, Eli was a mediocre QB then, garbage secondary.  The Patriots were an absolute juggernaught, greatest offense ever, very solid defense.  That was pathetic.  And this year, while the Patriots weren't that great, the Giants were crap as well. They were 9-7 and outscored by their opponents! It's statistically the worst champion in all of team sports!

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

[Q_FBE]

It is what it is. I think that if Larry had the benefit of good health, of Len Bias, and later Reggie Lewis we would probably have been talking about 6 rings. If Tommy had not had that horrific game in Denver back in 06, Reche Caldwell drop those passes in Indy, and that Arizona Area 51 Intervention in SB XLII, and if he simply remembered to scramble to his right on his first play from scrimmage in SB XLVI, we would be talking about 7 rings and comparisons to the 1960s Celtics and Green Bay Packers.

But it simply did not happen. 

[Donoghus]

Come on, man.  80s NBA might be the most competitive a league has ever been in sports.  The teams then were nasty.

Bird's two championship losses were against the '85 Lakers and '87 Lakers.  If you ask a Lakers fan, they'd put the '87 Lakers as the best team ever, and the '85 team in the top 5, (ok if you ask a Laker fan, all 11 of their championships in LA were the 11 best teams in basketball history.)  But seriously, the 85 and 87 Lakers were two of the best ever.  87 Lakers are no lower than 3, (86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, 96 Bulls in any order), and the 85 Lakers are in the top 7, and NO LOWER than 10.

The Giants in 07 were junk.  10-6, Eli was a mediocre QB then, garbage secondary.  The Patriots were an absolute juggernaught, greatest offense ever, very solid defense.  That was pathetic.  And this year, while the Patriots weren't that great, the Giants were crap as well. They were 9-7 and outscored by their opponents! It's statistically the worst champion in all of team sports!

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

Why?

He has the same number of championships as Bird.  He has one more than Orr.  Williams is in the pantheon and he never even won one. 

In regards to his position, many recognize Brady as Top 5 all-time.  Orr is probably Top 3 (#2 in my book) and Bird is in the Top 5-7 discussion also (depending on regional discussion). 

To me, Brady is already on the pantheon in Boston sports.   For the Boston Mt. Rushmore with regards to the 4 professional sports, its Orr, Russell, Williams, and Brady. 

[Greenbean]

Come on, man.  80s NBA might be the most competitive a league has ever been in sports.  The teams then were nasty.

Bird's two championship losses were against the '85 Lakers and '87 Lakers.  If you ask a Lakers fan, they'd put the '87 Lakers as the best team ever, and the '85 team in the top 5, (ok if you ask a Laker fan, all 11 of their championships in LA were the 11 best teams in basketball history.)  But seriously, the 85 and 87 Lakers were two of the best ever.  87 Lakers are no lower than 3, (86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, 96 Bulls in any order), and the 85 Lakers are in the top 7, and NO LOWER than 10.

The Giants in 07 were junk.  10-6, Eli was a mediocre QB then, garbage secondary.  The Patriots were an absolute juggernaught, greatest offense ever, very solid defense.  That was pathetic.  And this year, while the Patriots weren't that great, the Giants were crap as well. They were 9-7 and outscored by their opponents! It's statistically the worst champion in all of team sports!

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

If Brady lost his first two and won his next 3, I bet you would be thinking alot differently.

It's just been too long since they won and they have gotten close twice.

You are looking at 11 years now of competing for a championship every year. You can only say that about one other leader of a Boston franchise and that's Bill Russel.

Bird had a shorter run. Orr did to.

[Cman]

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

Completely disagree.
We are talking about one of the best QBs *in the history of the sport*

[birdbrady]

He has the same number of championships as Bird. 

Like I said earlier, 80s NBA was arguably the most competitive a sports league has ever been.  Bird lost two to the 85 and 87 Lakers, two of the best single season teams ever.  Brady lost two to the Giants and the 2011 Giants might be the worst professional sports champion ever (they had a negative scoring differential this year.)

He has one more than Orr. 

Winning in hockey is a little different than winning as an individual in the NBA or being a quarterback in the NFL - where those players have much more impact on the outcome of the game.  When you're the best player on your NBA team, or a quarterback in the NFL, you can make a larger impact on the game and affect the outcome far more than a defenseman like Orr was.  Even so, Orr won, the Bruins were garbage before him - and he changed everything.  Orr is, at best, the greatest hockey player of all time, and at worst, the thrid best.  Brady, is not "at best" even a top 3 at HIS OWN POSITION (QB - Montana, Elway, Johnny U, and Otto Graham are no arguments over Brady), let alone top 3 all time in the NFL.

Williams is in the pantheon and he never even won one. 

Oh my God dude, baseball? Williams saw the plate, 4 times a game? In a sport where you are an elite player if you succeed 35% of the time?  Not only that, when Williams played, the only way you could play for a championship was if you had the best regular season record in your league.  And the 50s Yankees were so stacked, and were arguably the greatest dynasty of all time this side of the 60s Celtics, so there was no way the Williams could have even competed for a title. There were no playoffs back then.  Also, once again, Williams is a top 5 player (at worst) in his sport.  Brady, is not even top 3 at his own position.

In regards to his position, many recognize Brady as Top 5 all-time. 

However, many do not.  Brady is borderline top 10 with a lot of people.  Some will have guys like Manning and Marino over him.  Also, like I said, Brady is top 5 ...at his position.  Not of all players.

NFL Network, did a list of all time players.  Brady was ranked 21st:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d81b6f161/Top-100-Tom-Brady

Orr is probably Top 3 (#2 in my book) and Bird is in the Top 5-7 discussion also (depending on regional discussion). 

Agreed.

To me, Brady is already on the pantheon in Boston sports.   For the Boston Mt. Rushmore with regards to the 4 professional sports, its Orr, Russell, Williams, and Brady. 

So you have Brady in over Bird? That's obscene.  Bird spent 4-5 years in the mid 80s, the most competitive the league ever was, as hands down the best player in basketball.  From 84-88, there were no arguements, Yes over Magic - no arguments during that time frame.  Only reason why a lot of people say Magic>Bird is because Bird stopped being elite after 88, whereas Magic won MVPs in 89 and 90 (when Bird didn't even play in 89, and then came back from injury and was just second-team All NBA.)

If you want to do a Rushmore, it's Russell, Williams, Bird, Orr.  And if you want to do a Pantheon argument - you have Russell who is just on a pedestal of his own looking down on everyone atop the pyramid.  Then you have Tier 1 which is Bird, Williams, and Orr (three top five ever at their sport.)  And then you have Tier 2 which is Tom Brady, Ray Bourque, and John Havlicek.

Brady won 3 championships when he was more of a game-manager.  Since he's been asked to carry a heavy load, he's never won.  Whereas guys like Brees and Manning, at least have one.

[BballTim]

Come on, man.  80s NBA might be the most competitive a league has ever been in sports.  The teams then were nasty.

Bird's two championship losses were against the '85 Lakers and '87 Lakers.  If you ask a Lakers fan, they'd put the '87 Lakers as the best team ever, and the '85 team in the top 5, (ok if you ask a Laker fan, all 11 of their championships in LA were the 11 best teams in basketball history.)  But seriously, the 85 and 87 Lakers were two of the best ever.  87 Lakers are no lower than 3, (86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, 96 Bulls in any order), and the 85 Lakers are in the top 7, and NO LOWER than 10.

The Giants in 07 were junk.  10-6, Eli was a mediocre QB then, garbage secondary.  The Patriots were an absolute juggernaught, greatest offense ever, very solid defense.  That was pathetic.  And this year, while the Patriots weren't that great, the Giants were crap as well. They were 9-7 and outscored by their opponents! It's statistically the worst champion in all of team sports!

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

Why?

He has the same number of championships as Bird.  He has one more than Orr.  Williams is in the pantheon and he never even won one. 

In regards to his position, many recognize Brady as Top 5 all-time.  Orr is probably Top 3 (#2 in my book) and Bird is in the Top 5-7 discussion also (depending on regional discussion). 

To me, Brady is already on the pantheon in Boston sports.   For the Boston Mt. Rushmore with regards to the 4 professional sports, its Orr, Russell, Williams, and Brady. 

  Bird's generally considered the best of all time at his position, isn't he? I don't think too many other small forwards are seriously in the conversation. He's top 5-7 of all nba players ever.

[dark_lord]

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

he is the greatest patriot tho, so he deserves to be mentioned.

[Donoghus]

He has the same number of championships as Bird. 

Like I said earlier, 80s NBA was arguably the most competitive a sports league has ever been.  Bird lost two to the 85 and 87 Lakers, two of the best single season teams ever.  Brady lost two to the Giants and the 2011 Giants might be the worst professional sports champion ever (they had a negative scoring differential this year.)

He has one more than Orr. 

Winning in hockey is a little different than winning as an individual in the NBA or being a quarterback in the NFL - where those players have much more impact on the outcome of the game.  When you're the best player on your NBA team, or a quarterback in the NFL, you can make a larger impact on the game and affect the outcome far more than a defenseman like Orr was.  Even so, Orr won, the Bruins were garbage before him - and he changed everything.  Orr is, at best, the greatest hockey player of all time, and at worst, the thrid best.  Brady, is not "at best" even a top 3 at HIS OWN POSITION (QB - Montana, Elway, Johnny U, and Otto Graham are no arguments over Brady), let alone top 3 all time in the NFL.

Williams is in the pantheon and he never even won one. 

Oh my God dude, baseball? Williams saw the plate, 4 times a game? In a sport where you are an elite player if you succeed 35% of the time?  Not only that, when Williams played, the only way you could play for a championship was if you had the best regular season record in your league.  And the 50s Yankees were so stacked, and were arguably the greatest dynasty of all time this side of the 60s Celtics, so there was no way the Williams could have even competed for a title. There were no playoffs back then.  Also, once again, Williams is a top 5 player (at worst) in his sport.  Brady, is not even top 3 at his own position.

In regards to his position, many recognize Brady as Top 5 all-time. 

However, many do not.  Brady is borderline top 10 with a lot of people.  Some will have guys like Manning and Marino over him.  Also, like I said, Brady is top 5 ...at his position.  Not of all players.

NFL Network, did a list of all time players.  Brady was ranked 21st:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d81b6f161/Top-100-Tom-Brady

Orr is probably Top 3 (#2 in my book) and Bird is in the Top 5-7 discussion also (depending on regional discussion). 

Agreed.

To me, Brady is already on the pantheon in Boston sports.   For the Boston Mt. Rushmore with regards to the 4 professional sports, its Orr, Russell, Williams, and Brady. 

So you have Brady in over Bird? That's obscene.  Bird spent 4-5 years in the mid 80s, the most competitive the league ever was, as hands down the best player in basketball.  From 84-88, there were no arguements, Yes over Magic - no arguments during that time frame.  Only reason why a lot of people say Magic>Bird is because Bird stopped being elite after 88, whereas Magic won MVPs in 89 and 90 (when Bird didn't even play in 89, and then came back from injury and was just second-team All NBA.)

If you want to do a Rushmore, it's Russell, Williams, Bird, Orr.  And if you want to do a Pantheon argument - you have Russell who is just on a pedestal of his own looking down on everyone atop the pyramid.  Then you have Tier 1 which is Bird, Williams, and Orr (three top five ever at their sport.)  And then you have Tier 2 which is Tom Brady, Ray Bourque, and John Havlicek.

Brady won 3 championships when he was more of a game-manager.  Since he's been asked to carry a heavy load, he's never won.  Whereas guys like Brees and Manning, at least have one.

Yeah, dude.  Baseball.

I should've been clearer and said Top 5 at the quarterback position for Brady.  Bird, I was saying in the Top 5-7 all-time.

In regards to the Mt. Rushmore thing, I said all 4 professional sports.  Taking the top ones from each sport.  Since Bird played basketball along with Russell, he's not jumping Russell in my book for the basketball one.  There isn't a better Patriot ever than Brady.

[Donoghus]

Come on, man.  80s NBA might be the most competitive a league has ever been in sports.  The teams then were nasty.

Bird's two championship losses were against the '85 Lakers and '87 Lakers.  If you ask a Lakers fan, they'd put the '87 Lakers as the best team ever, and the '85 team in the top 5, (ok if you ask a Laker fan, all 11 of their championships in LA were the 11 best teams in basketball history.)  But seriously, the 85 and 87 Lakers were two of the best ever.  87 Lakers are no lower than 3, (86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, 96 Bulls in any order), and the 85 Lakers are in the top 7, and NO LOWER than 10.

The Giants in 07 were junk.  10-6, Eli was a mediocre QB then, garbage secondary.  The Patriots were an absolute juggernaught, greatest offense ever, very solid defense.  That was pathetic.  And this year, while the Patriots weren't that great, the Giants were crap as well. They were 9-7 and outscored by their opponents! It's statistically the worst champion in all of team sports!

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

Why?

He has the same number of championships as Bird.  He has one more than Orr.  Williams is in the pantheon and he never even won one. 

In regards to his position, many recognize Brady as Top 5 all-time.  Orr is probably Top 3 (#2 in my book) and Bird is in the Top 5-7 discussion also (depending on regional discussion). 

To me, Brady is already on the pantheon in Boston sports.   For the Boston Mt. Rushmore with regards to the 4 professional sports, its Orr, Russell, Williams, and Brady. 

  Bird's generally considered the best of all time at his position, isn't he? I don't think too many other small forwards are seriously in the conversation. He's top 5-7 of all nba players ever.

Yes.  See my clarification in the above post.

[Redz]

Come on, man.  80s NBA might be the most competitive a league has ever been in sports.  The teams then were nasty.

Bird's two championship losses were against the '85 Lakers and '87 Lakers.  If you ask a Lakers fan, they'd put the '87 Lakers as the best team ever, and the '85 team in the top 5, (ok if you ask a Laker fan, all 11 of their championships in LA were the 11 best teams in basketball history.)  But seriously, the 85 and 87 Lakers were two of the best ever.  87 Lakers are no lower than 3, (86 Celtics, 87 Lakers, 96 Bulls in any order), and the 85 Lakers are in the top 7, and NO LOWER than 10.

The Giants in 07 were junk.  10-6, Eli was a mediocre QB then, garbage secondary.  The Patriots were an absolute juggernaught, greatest offense ever, very solid defense.  That was pathetic.  And this year, while the Patriots weren't that great, the Giants were crap as well. They were 9-7 and outscored by their opponents! It's statistically the worst champion in all of team sports!

I used to love Brady, but I don't think he belongs in the elite of Boston sports history, imo.  You have to put him below the Orr, Russell, Bird tier.  Have to.

I mentioned in the OP that the Giants aren't the 80's Lakers by any stretch.  There was no shame in losing to the Lakers in the  80's, except for the fact that it was THE LAKERS and the Celtics utter dominance over them throughout their Finals history was a huge measure of pride for this franchise.  The `84 Celtics win over the Lakers will always be my favorite because we held the line of dominance into a new generation.  Until the Lakers won in `85 I would never even acknowledge that Magic was anything but a choker!  Seriously.  That's how it was.

Losing to the Lakers in `85 marked a changing of the guard for who the dominant team in the NBA would be for the next 20-something years. The Lakers have won 8 championship in that span; the Celtics just 1...3 of those titles were against the Celts.  Head to head in their history the Celts were 8-0 vs. them prior to the `85 series. We were their daddies.

So yeh, the Lakers were better than the Giants by a longshot, but I felt the same kind of let down from perfection in Larry as I do now from Brady.  I still worshiped Bird at that stage of my life and have a huge amount of appreciation for Brady.